450X beats the 650R in the baja???


87 replies to this topic
  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 07, 2008 - 12:49 PM

#41

After talking to the XR folks,this pretty much sums up what they said,the XR650r will break 100 on any terrain,whearas the 450x needs complete flat ground to break 100 mph.


That's straight inaccurate info.

The XR will not break 100mph on "any" surface... let alone loose dirt or a graded road. My mod'd XR was built to do 110... it only did 105mph on asphalt, and with a slight downhill. It wasn't even close to a stock bike.

Anyone who tells you... they maintained over 100 for a lengthy time, (and not just 'hit' a 100) needs to prove it. Video, GPS... whatever. I'd like to see the ground they did the speed, and for how long. Call me skeptical... but all in all, it's reality.

But that goes for most "dirt" bikes, in dirt, and over anything but smooth terrain. :banghead:

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 07, 2008 - 12:57 PM

#42

The 1X and 14X bikes were assembled especially for the Baja 1000 race. The KTM 690 was assembled for the Baja 1000. Second in Class 22 was Joe Desrosier's on an XR 650 that wasn't stock, but also was not assembled in Japan either. They had the normal Honda XR650R hop up items on it, a secret tire formula that prevents flats, pre run like Honda does, were using BFG pits and came in second at years end to Hondas A team as a privateer team. The KX450 I dont know about, but I doubt it was stock off the show room floor. JAT could tell us about that.


Our KLX... was bone stock.

A bit of airbox opened up, a pipe, and re-jetted.
Not a single motor mod was done to the bike... A bit of taller gearing (our bike would only pull 95mph tops) and we had no breakdown issues, no lighting fiascos... and not too many spills. Lets not talk about our LONG pit stops for tire changes..etc!! Mag7 fueled us... and did a great job!

Anyway... stock bike, and it ran well (until the silt down South, and lack of a filter change)... but it got us to an 11th overall, or 4th in class 22 - open pro.

The 650R is a great Baja or Desert race bike... but with the 450s becoming more 'flickable' and with quite a bit of reliable power... it's an easy change for any team. Letting go of the 650R, is a hard thing to do for most.

I'd love to have one as a 3rd bike... I just can't afford it. :banghead:

:busted:

  • xr650l bum

Posted January 07, 2008 - 01:30 PM

#43

I'd love to have one as a 3rd bike...

:busted:


Having a 450x and 650l leaves no room!:banghead:

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 07, 2008 - 01:34 PM

#44

Having a 450x and 650l leaves no room!:banghead:


A nice pair for sure....

My pair, as of today is a 450X (plated) and CR500.

However, I'd love to have the 650R (plated of course) for the long rides, and for when I'd rather sit and relax. Riding the 450X I just wanna wheelie, and jump everything in sight.

... anyone selling a plated, and pristine XR these days for below what they think is fair?! :busted:

  • Old-Man

Posted January 07, 2008 - 01:36 PM

#45

Having a 450x and 650l leaves no room!:banghead:


Since you have both bikes what one do you like better as a overall bike? OH you have the L so maybe your not the right one to ask since they are talking about a R.

JAT some great posts from you. :busted:

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 07, 2008 - 01:45 PM

#46

Okay.......I feel the need to chime in..... :ride:

I have Four RED bikes in my garage....including race-ready 450X and XR650R. BOTH are amazing bikes, last week I was side-by-side at triple digits on the X next to my buddy on a well spec'd XRR (those of you that know the bomb road in PCE) :banghead: . The 650 is cam'd, the 450 has stock internals. Both bikes saw rev limiters, and were neck-n-neck all the way there. I think a lot of people can poopoo an X off the floor (at least if you are riding in the South West Desert) but with proper gearing......:busted: .......


I know the road... and want to say, Triple digits?! On your X??
I've got to almost call BS... and I'd like to ask... what's the X have done to it?! And how did you get the reading of 100mph or over? GPS?

.... my mod'd X won't do 100+ on that road... FEELS like it, but it's not over a hundred. Too much wheel spin as that road is slippery.

Not challenging you... just a bit skeptical. :D

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 07, 2008 - 01:49 PM

#47

GOTTA love those ones, you make a general statement and some people get all butt sore about it LOL Not like i went off on anyone BUT could be worse i guess if your getting 3 negs for one thread

people need to chill with hitting that damn gas. We need a royal rumble to settle forum disputes HEHE sorry got WWE on in the background


My LIFE story...!!

You know the guy... he comes off as an ass, until you get to know him... super sarcastic, and just laughs at everything. Never seems serious... well, that's me. However, I sometimes wonder when those will come around and see me for the nice guy, instead of the ass. :banghead: Oh wait, I could care less! haha!!! (kidding again...)

... everyone needs to remember, there will always be "the guy" who knows it all (but really doesn't even ride or own a bike... but reads "dirt bike" religiously)... and then the guy who IS the know it all, but only gives his opinion or the facts. Lastly... remember, it's the internet. You get all kinds who read and respond. :busted: (I'm 180lbs, blonde, abs of steel, better looking than Brad Pitt - you get the idea - HAHA!).

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 07, 2008 - 02:14 PM

#48

A nice pair for sure....

My pair, as of today is a 450X (plated) and CR500.

However, I'd love to have the 650R (plated of course) for the long rides, and for when I'd rather sit and relax. Riding the 450X I just wanna wheelie, and jump everything in sight.

... anyone selling a plated, and pristine XR these days for below what they think is fair?!
:banghead:


Yeah, it took me 8 months to find the very same thing: $ 3200.00. Still getting all the ergos and suspension worked out for my 6'3" body, but it sure brings back fond memories of passing people in the desert, sitting down, with my first XRR!

  • busted bones

Posted January 07, 2008 - 02:23 PM

#49

Anyone actually weighed a 450x ready to go? My 650r is 317 with the 3.2gal. tank full.


with a full tank at 2.2 gallons mine is about 259 pounds

  • busted bones

Posted January 07, 2008 - 02:31 PM

#50

How about ratio of sprung to unsprung weight. With equal rider ability and equal wheel/tire/lower suspension weight and equal factory dedication to winning then the heavier 650R should be smoother and therefore faster in the straightaways. This is just pure physics. Help me out if I am missing something.
I believe Honda just needed to look like they are racing what is available to buy so they are racing a factory special that has appearance of stock 450X even though it is slower and less reliable than 650R. This is good marketing strategy since they no longer have Hammel, Davis, Rosseler, and the KX500 to sweat.


there may be a smaller ratio of unsprung weight on the XR but there is alot more total unsprung weight on an XR. you forget about the whoops and stuff that the X will skim across the top of while the heavy XR will plow through and cause it to slow down

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  • BAJAHUSKYS

Posted January 07, 2008 - 06:03 PM

#51

450s can easily crest 100+ mph, but it will leave 1st gear pretty useless. We geared ours with 15/42 for the 06 B1K and it pulled 105+ mph, but geared it down to a 15/46 for the 07 B1K to allow 1st gear to work and still get 100 mph by radar gun on the pavement.

Very Few places to go that fast now that they cut the highway speeds in Score.:banghead:

  • scalejockey

Posted January 07, 2008 - 07:52 PM

#52

wow! 15\42 makes me want to go get a pile of gears and head to the salt flats with my 650. YAHOO

  • Denn10

Posted January 07, 2008 - 10:08 PM

#53

My LIFE story...!!

You know the guy... he comes off as an ass, until you get to know him... super sarcastic, and just laughs at everything. Never seems serious... well, that's me. However, I sometimes wonder when those will come around and see me for the nice guy, instead of the ass. :banghead: Oh wait, I could care less! haha!!! (kidding again...)

... everyone needs to remember, there will always be "the guy" who knows it all (but really doesn't even ride or own a bike... but reads "dirt bike" religiously)... and then the guy who IS the know it all, but only gives his opinion or the facts. Lastly... remember, it's the internet. You get all kinds who read and respond. :busted: (I'm 180lbs, blonde, abs of steel, better looking than Brad Pitt - you get the idea - HAHA!).



I wanna say something STF@!......oh SHUSH UP ALL and listen!!!!!

I know alot of times i come off really like an aZZ!! Well no surprise I AM AN AZZ.........BUT theres a kicker to it. I dont ever intentionally talk to people that havent said anything bad to me to start, like saying i dont have a clue what im talking about or name calling, BUT when they do i will let them have it. Im sorry but i am a kind of person that doesnt tolerate this in person and DEFINITELY wont let this happen from someone hiding behind a computer screen. This has got me BANNED for a month and a while back left without any "Gas" as everyone left the negatives. I will leave a pretty sarcasticly smart azz response to a stupid question like "how do i wash my bike??" or "how do you pick up a bike when you fall??" But this has got me nowhere except on the sidelines!! I dont know of anyone else thats been through all the problems ive had on here but thats cuz if they did they got perma banned. I think some of this thread is getting really OOC (out of control) and we gotta remember this is here for us to help each other and not argue or bicker about ones opinion to another. I have done stuff for some people that is prolly considered far and above what anyone would even think of on here, and spent money out of my pocket and my personal time to do this. I dont want anything in return for this as i trully am a person that loves to help when i can. It always leaves me getting used and abused by friends of the family as i go overboard helping with bike repairs and giving some of my own stuff away to help them. I would love to see the people that frequent this forum try there best to get away from the negativity and become a better forum. There are several standout people that do this already on here and i prolly dont need to name them but just a few that stand out are Cleo - Hawk - Martin - Huffa - and alot more that i cant think of names right now. I am by no way an expert as i dont think any are here but i do have alot of experiences and expertice to lend out when i can. Lets clean up the bickering and stupid stuff and get to what this forum is about, helping each other and giving opinions and experiences when asked for.

I will go on record and APPOLOGIZE for my actions, (but i trully dont think i did anything wrong here) but i prolly have on others. I will do my best to not be a smart azz, its hard but try not to read into the text too hard, Youll know when im pissed cuz ill prolly be banned for going off on someone who over stepped my line.

OK now that i have officially over done my stay for this ill go post this in its own thread and hope i dont get flammed LOL

Who wants to buy something from me through ebay now? LOL

Dennis Wagoner

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 08, 2008 - 01:47 AM

#54

450s can easily crest 100+ mph, but it will leave 1st gear pretty useless. We geared ours with 15/42 for the 06 B1K and it pulled 105+ mph, but geared it down to a 15/46 for the 07 B1K to allow 1st gear to work and still get 100 mph by radar gun on the pavement.

Very Few places to go that fast now that they cut the highway speeds in Score.:busted:


Steny...

That's some serious tall gearing. And horrible about race mile 340 in those rocks for the 1000. But hey... when you can reach a hundy (in a long stretch) it's a good thing. But, how often do you get there, or have the proper tire grip to reach it?! Honestly... I know bikes CAN get there... as our '05 B500 450X (the bike I now own) was geared to reach over triple digits. And honestly, it took nearly all of Ojos farm roads to get there (if it even got there during the race). Only to shut it down for the next turn. It's not a useless gearing... but it sure makes it hell for the rest of the race course and riders. Not worth it in my personal opinion. But then again, I'm not the one who manages a team or teams (maybe someday), I'm just the rider/racer guy. :D

We ran a 15/48 as it allowed a decent top speed, without too much rev limiter. Most 450s (stock or simply piped) have a hard time with that gearing, in my experience... (unless you speak of a TC Husky, as the gearbox is different than some of these X Hondas and the TE internal ratios and much wider - as you know) and are in a catch 22... whether they make the power to reach the intended speed (on race course, not somewhere it doesn't pertain as being a near useless point - being extreme) or your just waisting horsepower that you'll never use. And making the lower gears so wide the bike is never in the 'sweet spot'. A hard call in theory and on the bench. However, once you do the math... you'll see the amount of time in a race, how often you reach over 90-95+... and what little amounts of gain (if any) in time that is added over the duration of miles at those speeds. Almost better to gain that time in the pits, than to try and make it up on course.

Again, every one has their thoughts on this, and respectfully... with a stock cylinder, piston, little to no mods... (overall motor being stock) it's a reach and the strain on the bike, isn't worth the few minutes or seconds in time if it even equals that much.

Example;
if rider A does 95 for 15 minutes, in an 8 hour race.... 23.75miles
And rider B does 90 for 15 minutes in an 8 hour race.... 22.5
Rider A has only gained 1 and 1/4 miles every 15min or 5 miles in an hour.
(... uhh... did the math come out right on that, it's late, and I can't see straight :ride: )

... gotta hit the bed, but I think you might see where I'm going with this.

BTW, I remember Uptites 250 thumper reaching 92 with George's son on it, just before he went down. Pretty impressive if what I saw was accurate. :banghead:

  • BajaBoundMoto

Posted January 08, 2008 - 10:44 AM

#55

Anyone here know the top speed of the # 14x CRF450x from the '07 Baja 1000?
Or how about the top speed of the 4th overall bike, a CRF250x, from the '05 Baja 1000?
Or how about the absolute fastest bike (bar none) that's been raced in Baja in many years, the BMW HP2, that was raced from '04-'06...?

I always seem to read how people need more power and more speed if they're racing (or planning to race) Baja. :banghead:

And BTW, I love XR650R's. Absolutely my favorite for almost any Baja riding.
Then again I also love my sweet 650L, so what do I know...

  • surfnride

Posted January 08, 2008 - 08:33 PM

#56

Anyone here know the top speed of the # 14x CRF450x from the '07 Baja 1000?
Or how about the top speed of the 4th overall bike, a CRF250x, from the '05 Baja 1000?
Or how about the absolute fastest bike (bar none) that's been raced in Baja in many years, the BMW HP2, that was raced from '04-'06...?

...


I know the answers...14x- 95mph--- crf250x- 85mph --- hp2 - 115mph


good gas for everyone!:banghead:

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 08, 2008 - 08:43 PM

#57

I wanna say something STF@!......oh SHUSH UP ALL and listen!!!!!

I know alot of times i come off really like an aZZ!! Well no surprise I AM AN AZZ.........BUT theres a kicker to it. I dont ever intentionally talk to people that havent said anything bad to me to start, like saying i dont have a clue what im talking about or name calling, BUT when they do i will let them have it. Im sorry but i am a kind of person that doesnt tolerate this in person and DEFINITELY wont let this happen from someone hiding behind a computer screen. This has got me BANNED for a month and a while back left without any "Gas" as everyone left the negatives. I will leave a pretty sarcasticly smart azz response to a stupid question like "how do i wash my bike??" or "how do you pick up a bike when you fall??" But this has got me nowhere except on the sidelines!! I dont know of anyone else thats been through all the problems ive had on here but thats cuz if they did they got perma banned. I think some of this thread is getting really OOC (out of control) and we gotta remember this is here for us to help each other and not argue or bicker about ones opinion to another. I have done stuff for some people that is prolly considered far and above what anyone would even think of on here, and spent money out of my pocket and my personal time to do this. I dont want anything in return for this as i trully am a person that loves to help when i can. It always leaves me getting used and abused by friends of the family as i go overboard helping with bike repairs and giving some of my own stuff away to help them. I would love to see the people that frequent this forum try there best to get away from the negativity and become a better forum. There are several standout people that do this already on here and i prolly dont need to name them but just a few that stand out are Cleo - Hawk - Martin - Huffa - and alot more that i cant think of names right now. I am by no way an expert as i dont think any are here but i do have alot of experiences and expertice to lend out when i can. Lets clean up the bickering and stupid stuff and get to what this forum is about, helping each other and giving opinions and experiences when asked for.

I will go on record and APPOLOGIZE for my actions, (but i trully dont think i did anything wrong here) but i prolly have on others. I will do my best to not be a smart azz, its hard but try not to read into the text too hard, Youll know when im pissed cuz ill prolly be banned for going off on someone who over stepped my line.

OK now that i have officially over done my stay for this ill go post this in its own thread and hope i dont get flammed LOL

Who wants to buy something from me through ebay now? LOL

Dennis Wagoner


Yawn!:banghead: :busted: :ride:

  • weskc35k

Posted January 09, 2008 - 12:05 AM

#58

Man i got punked for saying i got punked on this thread.
There where 4 other fuel ups from this thread and a punked .
Thanks guys i know who you are.
It's not that hard to work this one out though.
Should i punk the skunk or keep my dignity?

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 09, 2008 - 08:37 AM

#59

I know the answers...14x- 95mph--- crf250x- 85mph --- hp2 - 115mph


good gas for everyone!:banghead:


haha... thanks Ron. Nothing like "being there" to tell it like it is!!

... now, to the peeps that think you need to gear to the moon... Does that above info help ya out?! :busted:

  • JohnnyAirtime

Posted January 09, 2008 - 03:34 PM

#60

Man i got punked for saying i got punked on this thread.
There where 4 other fuel ups from this thread and a punked .
Thanks guys i know who you are.
It's not that hard to work this one out though.
Should i punk the skunk or keep my dignity?


Me too...

No worries, they don't have enough clout to move my gas meter.

Not sure if they know, but it takes a person with lots of gas... to dent someone elses meter. Meaning, you can't be low on gas... and put the hurt on others. Kinda cool.

It's easy to find out who is doing this... simply look at their posting times, and do the math. :banghead:





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