450X beats the 650R in the baja???


87 replies to this topic
  • hondacrf150f1

Posted January 03, 2008 - 05:53 PM

#1

I just read the article on the 450X in the new Red Rider, it does look like a awsome bike but i just dont see how its any better than the 650R:excuseme:

The only thing its got going for it to me is a 25 pound diffornce, I would think the old 650R baja bikes with all the HRC goodies would beat a 450X in all speeds above 30 or so?

So when the 450X actually won last year was the 650R even raced? or did they just cut if off completely even though it was last years winner.

What do you guys think in comparing the 650R and 450X for a desert racer?

weight diffornce isant huge, and the 650R has way more top end balls...

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 03, 2008 - 07:09 PM

#2

Um, more like a 40 lb difference, with full race garb on both.

The 450X is a wonderful bike, cabable of anything you want it to be, if tuned so. I have both an X and a XRR (plated) and there is no way I can ride the XRR across rough terrain at speed as I can with the X. The X is miles ahead at everything but over 70 mph terrain.

  • scalejockey

Posted January 03, 2008 - 08:37 PM

#3

I hate saying it but the 450's fly over the nasties.

Their like someone's baby to me.. The're neat untill they blow. That's why I like to give it back to the owner when i'm done.

  • XR4DEZ

Posted January 03, 2008 - 08:39 PM

#4

Anyone actually weighed a 450x ready to go? My 650r is 317 with the 3.2gal. tank full.

  • Potts228

Posted January 03, 2008 - 09:47 PM

#5

I just read the article on the 450X in the new Red Rider, it does look like a awsome bike but i just dont see how its any better than the 650R:excuseme:

The only thing its got going for it to me is a 25 pound diffornce, I would think the old 650R baja bikes with all the HRC goodies would beat a 450X in all speeds above 30 or so?

So when the 450X actually won last year was the 650R even raced? or did they just cut if off completely even though it was last years winner.

What do you guys think in comparing the 650R and 450X for a desert racer?

weight diffornce isant huge, and the 650R has way more top end balls...


Last year Team Honda made the commitment to the 450X and did not race a 650R at all.

It's probably closer to a 45lb difference between the two if they are setup the same. The weight difference when riding is HUGE! They don't call the 650R the pig for nothing! The 450X is by far an easier bike to ride... especially in a panic situation when you need to make a sudden change in direction or slow down quickly.

The 450X is very fast on top and can easily match the 650R in most cases. Because it's easier to handle and turns much better than the 650R overall it's a much better choice if you know how to setup a bike and maintain it well. For Baja, the 650R is still a great choice for a lot of us since we don't have Team Honda paying the bills and we need a reliable bike that will finish.

I think a great reason the 650R will keep hanging in there is how reliable they are! We used a 650R in the 1000 this year that had been raced in the Baja 250 as well as ridden at least another 2000 miles prior and I have no doubt we could have turned around and ridden another 1300 miles back to Ensenada with no problem. On the other hand, I don't think a 450X could match that since they are at a higher level of performance than the 650R and probably would need some valve work, or more, to keep going.

  • BWB63

Posted January 03, 2008 - 10:07 PM

#6

There is another aspect to this. Honda does not race a CRF450X in the SCORE Baja races!:banghead: They run a major modified bike that looks like a CRF450X. Not even close to what you would buy from your honda dealer. The CRF450X wouldn't last through even the Baja 250 at the pace the top Honda riders put the bike through but, then again the XR650R that Honda raced wasn't all as stock as you were lead to believe, it could do two seasons though and didn't have to be totaly rebiult after one Baja race. One season as a race bike next as a prerunner? I know many bikes but, the XR650R can take a lot more punishment then a CRF450, even when they get rid of the silly Ti valves.

  • weskc35k

Posted January 04, 2008 - 12:52 AM

#7

I gave my race CRF450x back to Honda i could of swapped it out for my CRF500 or my XR650r, but for what i do these bikes do it better.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 04, 2008 - 02:55 AM

#8

I hate saying it but the 450's fly over the nasties.

Their like someone's baby to me.. The're neat untill they blow. That's why I like to give it back to the owner when i'm done.


That's awfully nice of you.

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 07:01 AM

#9

There is another aspect to this. Honda does not race a CRF450X in the SCORE Baja races!:banghead: They run a major modified bike that looks like a CRF450X. Not even close to what you would buy from your honda dealer. The CRF450X wouldn't last through even the Baja 250 at the pace the top Honda riders put the bike through but, then again the XR650R that Honda raced wasn't all as stock as you were lead to believe, it could do two seasons though and didn't have to be totaly rebiult after one Baja race. One season as a race bike next as a prerunner? I know many bikes but, the XR650R can take a lot more punishment then a CRF450, even when they get rid of the silly Ti valves.


very true dont under estimate what your eyes show you that "450X" is one bad ass highly modified bike and there not running it cuz its slower, there running it cuz it now woops on the R. Was just a matter of time before the R got put aside. Heard something about complete top end replacement at 1/2 way too, not sure if they did but im sure if they did it wasnt much of a pit stop for them boys. Tweaking on a bike after a case or so of Tecate im sure they would beat any nascar pit team LOL

  • DUDEBRO7

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:42 AM

#10

There is another aspect to this. Honda does not race a CRF450X in the SCORE Baja races!:banghead: They run a major modified bike that looks like a CRF450X. Not even close to what you would buy from your honda dealer.


Actually, if i have it right, at least 2 450Xs, a KTM and a Kawasaki all beat the 650R in Baja ... then again the Honda team would probaly have won it on Scwhinn with a flat tire ... 90% rider 10% bike.

From all accounts i.e. real live Honda B team riders they race the very same 450x anyone could buy from a dealer and as far as I know theyre not allowed, and dont have the time, to do any major motor work during the race - tires, filters and gas thats it ...

http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=573974

1X and 14X are no more modified than a Team Honda XR650r and as, if not less, modified than the XR650Rs many of us ride.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • BajaBoundMoto

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:11 AM

#11

Where Should I Start.....?

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:22 AM

#12

LOL its ok BAJA lets just say both bikes from the factory to highly modified are great but the R's big time racing days are pretty much over from the factory side.

  • DUDEBRO7

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:25 AM

#13

Where Should I Start.....?


:D :banghead:

... with how the top secret factory 700 fuel injected nitrous motors you guys were running powered you to 2nd place in the Baja1000?

... or maybe with how you guys had to change your own tires (while the mechanics were swapping out the motor) and the 0.35 seconds you lost because of it?

Sorry I know I'm a noob but I just can't help myself. :busted:

  • DUDEBRO7

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:46 AM

#14

LOL its ok BAJA lets just say both bikes from the factory to highly modified


Not so, see Tim Morton's (bajaboundmoto) post here:

http://www.thumperta...12&postcount=38

The 450X we rode wasn't much more (other than ignition) than you could duplicate with the help of a couple aftermarket companies here in So.Cal. You could build (or have built) a bike that's very close to what we raced, possibly even faster. ).


And for the record, BAJABOUNDMOTO's Baja record:

The answer is 6 class wins in Baja 1000s. None of those were bought and I rode my fair share (or more) in all.



  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 11:05 AM

#15

LOL its ok BAJA lets just say both bikes from the factory to highly modified are great but the R's big time racing days are pretty much over from the factory side.


DUDEBRO if your gonna quote and reply, copy the whole quote or just simple read it first! i was making a general statement only.

  • DUDEBRO7

Posted January 04, 2008 - 11:31 AM

#16

DUDEBRO if your gonna quote and reply, copy the whole quote or just simple read it first! i was making a general statement only.


No need to get worked up.

I quoted the part I was replying to, to avoid confusion ... apologies if this upsets you. If I'd have said "not so" to the whole quote it would mean that I disagree with your statement about the XR being done wrt to factory racing ... you get no argument from me on this on this account.

I have an issue with the mythical "factory only" 450X that everyone is so convinced has to exist because how else could it possibly beat the great XR650R right????? ... the X is a great bike modified or not and a stock X is arguably a better bike than a stock 650 (new technology, progress, evolution of the sport and all that ...) Why is it so difficult to accept that the basic 450X available to joe public is a great bike capable of winning the 1000 and even, god forbid, beating an XR?

Thats all ... no need for exclamation points, I did read the whole quote (including the typo).

  • oldturtle

Posted January 04, 2008 - 11:49 AM

#17

How about ratio of sprung to unsprung weight. With equal rider ability and equal wheel/tire/lower suspension weight and equal factory dedication to winning then the heavier 650R should be smoother and therefore faster in the straightaways. This is just pure physics. Help me out if I am missing something.
I believe Honda just needed to look like they are racing what is available to buy so they are racing a factory special that has appearance of stock 450X even though it is slower and less reliable than 650R. This is good marketing strategy since they no longer have Hammel, Davis, Rosseler, and the KX500 to sweat.

  • DUDEBRO7

Posted January 04, 2008 - 12:11 PM

#18

I dont think youre missing anything its just that there are all those pesky turns and corners and technical bits between Ensenada and Cabo. :banghead:

By that logic and if the 1000 was a straight line desert drag race my money would be on the 90+hp KTM 950SE or BMW HP2 ...

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 01:10 PM

#19

No need to get worked up.

I quoted the part I was replying to, to avoid confusion ... apologies if this upsets you. If I'd have said "not so" to the whole quote it would mean that I disagree with your statement about the XR being done wrt to factory racing ... you get no argument from me on this on this account.

I have an issue with the mythical "factory only" 450X that everyone is so convinced has to exist because how else could it possibly beat the great XR650R right????? ... the X is a great bike modified or not and a stock X is arguably a better bike than a stock 650 (new technology, progress, evolution of the sport and all that ...) Why is it so difficult to accept that the basic 450X available to joe public is a great bike capable of winning the 1000 and even, god forbid, beating an XR?

Thats all ... no need for exclamation points, I did read the whole quote (including the typo).


not worked up! you must have thought i was saying there the same or something else. I simply said there both great bikes, either showroom stock or factory modified.

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 04:13 PM

#20

too bad the fool that liked to leave negative feedback saying "does not add value" doesnt leave his name LMAO what does that mean anyways???





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