It's cold,don't forget to change summer oil.


43 replies to this topic
  • martinfan30

Posted January 03, 2008 - 12:47 PM

#21

thats great stuff there. i will try to open up the holes on the banjo bolts too. did you just match the smaller hole on one to the bigger on the other? or increase the size of both?

i also wonder if supplying more oil to one part of the engine will take away from another?

  • jetfuel

Posted January 03, 2008 - 01:41 PM

#22

thats great stuff there. i will try to open up the holes on the banjo bolts too. did you just match the smaller hole on one to the bigger on the other? or increase the size of both?

i also wonder if supplying more oil to one part of the engine will take away from another?


Very good question....

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 03, 2008 - 03:17 PM

#23

You can open the bolts up as much as they will allow, it will only help.
The bigger oil feed line is the way to go, but by opening the holes in the bolts that will give longer engine life too.
Using a lower first number like 5/50 oil will also make your motor live longer.
You can stretch your oil pressure spring by 20% to raise oil pressure too.
The xlr an xl,xr motors need more oil to the top end, you can drill bigger holes in your cam along with the other oil mods mentioned here too.

  • skatpex99

Posted January 03, 2008 - 03:20 PM

#24

Woke up to 40 degrees in Florida today :busted: :D :D being from So Cal this is cold to me! Never have tried to start the bike (my XRR) in cold weather. Running 20-50. You guys say its harder to get the pig fired up in cold weather? Mine fires first kick most times in normal weather. I guess I should try to fire her up and see how my piggy likes this cold front! :banghead: :D

Yea its been cold lately in florida.

  • Denn10

Posted January 03, 2008 - 03:26 PM

#25

You can open the bolts up as much as they will allow, it will only help.
The bigger oil feed line is the way to go, but by opening the holes in the bolts that will give longer engine life too.
Using a lower first number like 5/50 oil will also make your motor live longer.
You can stretch your oil pressure spring by 20% to raise oil pressure too.
The xlr an xl,xr motors need more oil to the top end, you can drill bigger holes in your cam along with the other oil mods mentioned here too.


how do you know that opening the holes will let more oil in? or adding larger diameter lines? you cant always just open things up with concern to oil flow as your pump may not be able to get enough pressure with increased volume. It that were the case we would see -10 oil lines on everything. Im curious how you can back all this up or its just something you did and really dont have factual numbers to show increased flow and pressure? Im sure if there were that many mods to make these engines even better honda engineers might have stumbled across them once in the last 10 years dont ya think?:banghead:

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 03, 2008 - 03:33 PM

#26

thats great stuff there. i will try to open up the holes on the banjo bolts too. did you just match the smaller hole on one to the bigger on the other? or increase the size of both?

i also wonder if supplying more oil to one part of the engine will take away from another?


the pump is more than up to the challenge of the extra oil flow.
drill both banjo bolts the same and as large as you can make them.
any hydraulic hose fitting shop can make you a larger oil feed line
using your banjo style fitting. thats what i did.
cams an rockers are big money an this is a easy fix for the problem.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 03, 2008 - 08:47 PM

#27

nailpounder, not to flame you but denn has a good point. why if this is the "fix all" of oil supply issues to the RFVC head, why hasnt HONDA already done this? my main concern is trying to lengthen the oil pump spring correctly. 20% you say? like i asked before, will this increase in oil supply to the top end decrease oil supply elsewhere in the engine? i'm all for trying it, i just want to be sure it will be a good "overall" lubrication remedy.:banghead:

  • BWB63

Posted January 03, 2008 - 09:58 PM

#28

stretching the spring will only fix the pressure for a while. Cutting 10% off and adding 20% in length as a spacer would last longer. Yes, more pressure, with the larger holes will push more oil to the valve train. We did something like this to the XR600R 20 years ago. With a bigger tube and another hole drilled for the cam. There was a setup you could buy back then to help, got my first setup from XR's only through Jimmy Sones. I think the XR650L has more oil to the cam but, there has always been the need for more oil in hotter weather and racing. There was some kind of trick we did to add more volume aslo. Had something to grinding some at the oil pump out let. It's been a long time.

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 04, 2008 - 04:32 AM

#29

nailpounder, not to flame you but denn has a good point. why if this is the "fix all" of oil supply issues to the RFVC head, why hasnt HONDA already done this? my main concern is trying to lengthen the oil pump spring correctly. 20% you say? like i asked before, will this increase in oil supply to the top end decrease oil supply elsewhere in the engine? i'm all for trying it, i just want to be sure it will be a good "overall" lubrication remedy.:banghead:


you'll have to do some research, I'm happy with my results on my race bikes.
like BWB63 said you may be able to call xr's only an see if they know anything.

  • Nailpounder

Posted January 04, 2008 - 05:02 AM

#30

stretching the spring will only fix the pressure for a while. Cutting 10% off and adding 20% in length as a spacer would last longer. Yes, more pressure, with the larger holes will push more oil to the valve train. We did something like this to the XR600R 20 years ago. With a bigger tube and another hole drilled for the cam. There was a setup you could buy back then to help, got my first setup from XR's only through Jimmy Sones. I think the XR650L has more oil to the cam but, there has always been the need for more oil in hotter weather and racing. There was some kind of trick we did to add more volume aslo. Had something to grinding some at the oil pump out let. It's been a long time.


A friend of mine owns a spring shop, he makes springs for GM an Ford.
that's who I had make me a new spring.
I only said to stretch it because most people don't know where to get a new spring made. If anyone wants a new spring pm me.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Nailpounder

Posted January 04, 2008 - 05:06 AM

#31

thats great stuff there. i will try to open up the holes on the banjo bolts too. did you just match the smaller hole on one to the bigger on the other? or increase the size of both?

i also wonder if supplying more oil to one part of the engine will take away from another?



It's funny how fast something that's great can turn into something that's bad because one person that has never tried it said it was crap an won't work. I planted the seed you can take it for what it's worth.

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 06:53 AM

#32

It's funny how fast something that's great can turn into something that's bad because one person that has never tried it said it was crap an won't work.


who said its turning bad just cause what i said?? I never said it was crap and wouldnt work either i said to be careful cuz you always just cant do these things without testing to see what results your actually getting. Dont get all bent just cause someone else is putting their opinion in. Im no garage mechanic, ive been a mechanic all my life and also a Rotax aircraft engine builder and you cant just always do things like open up banjo bolts and add larger oil lines and be assured your actually doing what you intended. What actual data do you have to support everything your saying or is it just "well its worked great for me so far" kinda data? If you have factual data like oil flow numbers and PSI numbers for engine rpms and such please tell us cuz obviously honda hasnt done any of this with these engines in many years as this is what a 15 year old engine and i dont know how far the XR600 goes back.

  • pwrpapa

Posted January 04, 2008 - 07:24 AM

#33

who said its turning bad just cause what i said?? I never said it was crap and wouldnt work either i said to be careful cuz you always just cant do these things without testing to see what results your actually getting. Dont get all bent just cause someone else is putting their opinion in. Im no garage mechanic, ive been a mechanic all my life and also a Rotax aircraft engine builder and you cant just always do things like open up banjo bolts and add larger oil lines and be assured your actually doing what you intended. What actual data do you have to support everything your saying or is it just "well its worked great for me so far" kinda data? If you have factual data like oil flow numbers and PSI numbers for engine rpms and such please tell us cuz obviously honda hasnt done any of this with these engines in many years as this is what a 15 year old engine and i dont know how far the XR600 goes back.


I really don't think nailpounder has to prove anything to ya.
He was just posting some usefull info for everyone here to read.
Why not do your own r&d like he did an prove him wrong if that makes you feel good, or is that to much to ask out of ya?
call xr's only an ask them some questions like he said or call honda an talk to them wise guy. I don't see you posting any meaningfull tech answers.

  • BWB63

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:06 AM

#34

Well, now that we have a flame war:eek:

There was big problems with not enough oil to the cam back in the day, much bigger problem once you changed cam and some race guys took the time to fix this problem so the XR6 could race the Desert/Baja races. As Denn mentioned there was more to it then just more pressure, more valume was added also but, in the end more oil to the cam is/was much needed. Air cooled head with little oil hasn't been a very good thing. The factual data was in the racing, stock bikes failed and more oil to the head fixed it. This isn't a new found problem but, one that was a big deal into the 90's. I thought Honda did make the oil line to the head a little bigger to help fix this but, not as much as the race guys did. The oil pump does put out more then enough to deliver more oil to the head. More volume with the little more pressure is always a plus. To much pressure is not.
Well, enough of me telling old stories for the air cooled crowed; back to my water cooled hole.......:banghead:

  • martinfan30

Posted January 04, 2008 - 09:10 AM

#35

It's funny how fast something that's great can turn into something that's bad because one person that has never tried it said it was crap an won't work. I planted the seed you can take it for what it's worth.


NP, you took that the wrong way. i was actually interested in maybe trying this idea. i only was questioning if this might actually compromise the desinged lubrication system somehow. if it has worked great for you, good. you typically dont see the valve train issues with the newer XRL's as you did in the 90's and earlier. honda has obviously tweaked the system just enough too work. for racing purposes it might not be sufficient, so your tips are prob. needed.

i didnt say it was crap...

  • martinfan30

Posted January 04, 2008 - 09:12 AM

#36

I really don't think nailpounder has to prove anything to ya.
He was just posting some usefull info for everyone here to read.
Why not do your own r&d like he did an prove him wrong if that makes you feel good, or is that to much to ask out of ya?
call xr's only an ask them some questions like he said or call honda an talk to them wise guy. I don't see you posting any meaningfull tech answers.


NP was not trying to prove anything. he just came out with an interesting idea. actually DENN has helped me out with some very helpful information regarding suspension setup and certain aspects of engine building.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 04, 2008 - 09:14 AM

#37

Well, now that we have a flame war:eek:

There was big problems with not enough oil to the cam back in the day, much bigger problem once you changed cam and some race guys took the time to fix this problem so the XR6 could race the Desert/Baja races. As Denn mentioned there was more to it then just more pressure, more valume was added also but, in the end more oil to the cam is/was much needed. Air cooled head with little oil hasn't been a very good thing. The factual data was in the racing, stock bikes failed and more oil to the head fixed it. This isn't a new found problem but, one that was a big deal into the 90's. I thought Honda did make the oil line to the head a little bigger to help fix this but, not as much as the race guys did. The oil pump does put out more then enough to deliver more oil to the head. More volume with the little more pressure is always a plus. To much pressure is not.
Well, enough of me telling old stories for the air cooled crowed; back to my water cooled hole.......:busted:


my point exactly. the pump supplies enough to get to the head. what if you stretch the spring too far? too much pressure? flood the head and starve something else? i dont know.:banghead:

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:12 AM

#38

I really don't think nailpounder has to prove anything to ya.
He was just posting some usefull info for everyone here to read.
Why not do your own r&d like he did an prove him wrong if that makes you feel good, or is that to much to ask out of ya?
call xr's only an ask them some questions like he said or call honda an talk to them wise guy. I don't see you posting any meaningfull tech answers.


sounds like someone didnt get their Frosted Flakes for breakfast LMAO who are you coming in trying to stir the pot? Dont you know "Trolling with intent to stir up trouble" gets you a nice 30 day ban?? I know it does so careful when you just erupt into a forum and start TROLLING

and i dont need to test anything TY but butt out unless you have some usefull information to help out with AND calling names TY though

  • Denn10

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:17 AM

#39

my point exactly. the pump supplies enough to get to the head. what if you stretch the spring too far? too much pressure? flood the head and starve something else? i dont know.:banghead:


the starvation idea is one i would worry about also, it is only 2 1/2 quarts for everything, doubt you could completely starve it somewhere but who knows.

  • martinfan30

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:35 AM

#40

no i doubt it would starve it, but what if its just enough to create a new issue? then again im prob. overthinking again!LOL...





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