Rekluse Concern


57 replies to this topic
  • 080

Posted January 03, 2008 - 12:00 PM

#21

As you read the labels bear this in mind; there is no API engine oil grade that implies an ability to retain viscosity in extremes of shear, such as a gear lube would experience, and so, there is nothing you can learn from any of those grade specifications that will give you any information as to the oils durability in that regard. JASO MA/MA1/MA2 are supposed to include some measure of consideration for this, but even the actual presence of the words, "Certified JASO MA" don't necessarily give you an indication of anything more than the fact that the oil is an equivalent of API SG/SH, and is suitable for a wet clutch.

The only thing I have seen on anyone's label that definitively states that the oil inside can stand being a trans oil is "API GL-1", indicating the oil inside is, among other things, a legitimate 75w-90 gear oil (the SAE grades for gear oils are different that for engine oils). This appears only on the label of Amsoil MCF and MCV to the best of my knowledge.

Otherwise, your stuck with either published lab tests or your own UOA's to find out.


:banghead: .........No I'm just kidding. If I'm understanding you correctly, even though they meet the API and JASO requirements previously mentioned, without the API (GL-1) label there is no way of knowing exactly how long the oil will last/retain its required viscosity when used as a gear oil. :busted:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 03, 2008 - 02:17 PM

#22

:banghead: .........No I'm just kidding. If I'm understanding you correctly, even though they meet the API and JASO requirements previously mentioned, without the API (GL-1) label there is no way of knowing exactly how long the oil will last/retain its required viscosity when used as a gear oil. :busted:

That's the problem, alright.

  • 080

Posted January 03, 2008 - 02:46 PM

#23

Thanks for the lesson in oil transcript. At least now I have an idea on what to look for. I'm still going to try the Mobile to see how it works out, I just don't like the smell of that Rotella it's to distracting when riding.

  • black_n_blue_thumper

Posted January 03, 2008 - 11:36 PM

#24

The reason has to be that the specific behavior of the oil and clutch together gives them the results that make the most customers happy with the operation of the Rekluse. If you experiment with other oils, you'll want to note whether the stall rpm of your clutch changes, and whether it engages smoothly. You would not want to use an oil that raised your stall RPM (the point at which the clutch engages) significantly, because that would dictate higher engagement pressure while slipping, and increase clutch wear).

I don't know how the Amsoil I'm currently using will fare in terms of stall speed, but I know that the manual clutches in all my YZF's work beautifully with it.



I switched to Amsoil after reading your comments in a previous post. I loved it with my Rekluse, both z-start and the pro. I no longer run the rekluse but it did just fine with the Amsoil. I also used the Two2Cool additive with no complaints. In fact I run the Two2Cool in my hillclimbers just because of the abuse the clutches see.

  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 07:14 AM

#25

I switched to Amsoil after reading your comments in a previous post. I loved it with my Rekluse, both z-start and the pro. I no longer run the rekluse but it did just fine with the Amsoil. I also used the Two2Cool additive with no complaints. In fact I run the Two2Cool in my hillclimbers just because of the abuse the clutches see.


Not to discredit your post, but my boss has a YZ450 (2003 model) with the z-start Rekluse and he is a die-hard Amsoil guy. After 3 burned up clutches, he finally made the switch to Rotella and its been problem free ever since. I set his clutch up for him, so I know the installed gap was adjusted properly as well.

I guess synthetics work well for some folks and for others they do not... :banghead:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 04, 2008 - 07:20 AM

#26

I guess synthetics work well for some folks and for others they do not... :banghead:

Again, the term "synthetics" is used generically, as if that alone completely describes everything about an oil; it doesn't. In fact, there are more differences among the many available synthetic oils than among petro oils anymore.

Also, you don't specify which particular Amsoil product he used. There are only two that I would use, and there are any number of them that are not well suited to an engine/trans/wet clutch application at all.

  • smokin529

Posted January 04, 2008 - 07:30 AM

#27

I just picked up a pro model for my '07 450 and I can't find an oil recomendation anywhere in the paperwork. I ran Delo 400 with the Z-start in my '04 without any problems. Will I have the same success with Delo with the pro model?

  • Wiz636

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:03 AM

#28

I just picked up a pro model for my '07 450 and I can't find an oil recomendation anywhere in the paperwork. I ran Delo 400 with the Z-start in my '04 without any problems. Will I have the same success with Delo with the pro model?


I don't recall any recommendation in the instructions for the pro model either. If your Delo worked with your z-start I see no reason why it wouldn't work with the pro. You're going to love the pro model by the way :banghead:

  • 080

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:05 AM

#29

Not to discredit your post, but my boss has a YZ450 (2003 model) with the z-start Rekluse and he is a die-hard Amsoil guy. After 3 burned up clutches, he finally made the switch to Rotella and its been problem free ever since. I set his clutch up for him, so I know the installed gap was adjusted properly as well.

I guess synthetics work well for some folks and for others they do not... :banghead:


How much time does your boss have on his new cutch w/Rotella vs the old one? What kind of Amsoil was he using? Chances are if it was indeed the fault of the oil, then another person using the same oil will have the same result sooner or later.

  • 080

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:10 AM

#30

I just picked up a pro model for my '07 450 and I can't find an oil recomendation anywhere in the paperwork. I ran Delo 400 with the Z-start in my '04 without any problems. Will I have the same success with Delo with the pro model?


Rekluse use to suggest Delo, now they suggest Rotella. I switched to from the Delo to the Rottela and have not noticed any difference except it stinks when hot.

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  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:33 AM

#31

How much time does your boss have on his new cutch w/Rotella vs the old one? What kind of Amsoil was he using? Chances are if it was indeed the fault of the oil, then another person using the same oil will have the same result sooner or later.


His clutches where lasting about 6-8 rides with the Amsoil (which was the 10W40 motorcycle oil) He has about 20 rides or so since switching.

Of course I would think if one person had issues then everybody would, but I guess we all have different riding styles and maybe a more aggressive rider who keeps the RPM's up (and the clutch engauged) may have better luck with the Amsoil?....I don't know... My boss isn't a very aggressive rider.

  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 08:40 AM

#32

Again, the term "synthetics" is used generically, as if that alone completely describes everything about an oil; it doesn't.


I understand, but Rekluse says to "stay away from sythetics". If there was a sythetic oil brand or synthetic type that didn't interfer with the z-start operation, then I would venture to say that they would tell us so we could use that brand of oil as an option if we wanted to.
:banghead:

  • 080

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:06 AM

#33

His clutches where lasting about 6-8 rides with the Amsoil (which was the 10W40 motorcycle oil) He has about 20 rides or so since switching.

Of course I would think if one person had issues then everybody would, but I guess we all have different riding styles and maybe a more aggressive rider who keeps the RPM's up (and the clutch engauged) may have better luck with the Amsoil?....I don't know... My boss isn't a very aggressive rider.


True, but it could still just be the type of Amsoil not whether or not it was synthetic or not. I'm not sure if you have read the whole thread or not, but if not do. Grey pointed out some intresting facts about the oils we are using and assuming are right or will work just fine, when in reality the labels we are reading can be mis-leading unless pointed out. The big issue with the Rotella is that it may work fine as gear oil and work well with the clutch, but the viscosity break down takes place so much sooner than an oil that is specificaly designed for all three components that it requires more frequent changes. If the oil specificaly states use in engine, clutch and transmission/gear then it probably isn't going to matter whether it is synthetic or not.

  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 10:55 AM

#34

True, but it could still just be the type of Amsoil not whether or not it was synthetic or not. I'm not sure if you have read the whole thread or not, but if not do. Grey pointed out some intresting facts about the oils we are using and assuming are right or will work just fine, when in reality the labels we are reading can be mis-leading unless pointed out. The big issue with the Rotella is that it may work fine as gear oil and work well with the clutch, but the viscosity break down takes place so much sooner than an oil that is specificaly designed for all three components that it requires more frequent changes. If the oil specificaly states use in engine, clutch and transmission/gear then it probably isn't going to matter whether it is synthetic or not.


I've read the entire thread. And Amsoil only makes synthetics. Given that sythetic oils have different properties isn't the isssue. The point I was trying to make is, even though some dirt bikes specific synthetics are wet-clutch approved, Rekluse still doesn't recommend them. :banghead:

  • 080

Posted January 04, 2008 - 11:26 AM

#35

I've read the entire thread. And Amsoil only makes synthetics. Given that sythetic oils have different properties isn't the isssue. The point I was trying to make is, even though some dirt bikes specific synthetics are wet-clutch approved, Rekluse still doesn't recommend them. :banghead:


Thats cool, I understand your point, and yes they do state not to use synthetics. I didn't know Amsoil only made synthetics or I would have understood quiker. I actually sent an email off to Rekluse on this subject about a week ago but have not recieved any response yet.

  • Shaky

Posted January 04, 2008 - 11:44 AM

#36

Does anyone have any experience with Pennzoil?

I'm about to install the Z-start and don't want to switch oil, because I'm sponsored with this oil.

Thanks

  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 12:21 PM

#37

Does anyone have any experience with Pennzoil?

I'm about to install the Z-start and don't want to switch oil, because I'm sponsored with this oil.

Thanks


Dino or Synthetic?

  • 642MX

Posted January 04, 2008 - 12:22 PM

#38

Thats cool, I understand your point, and yes they do state not to use synthetics. I didn't know Amsoil only made synthetics or I would have understood quiker. I actually sent an email off to Rekluse on this subject about a week ago but have not recieved any response yet.


No problem. :banghead:

Also, just call Rekluse if you need them.....they aren't the best at returning emails.

  • Shaky

Posted January 04, 2008 - 12:38 PM

#39

It sais it meats all Jaso and stuff like that, and I've been running all year with it without any problems, but reading this post is what's made me concerned befor I instal the Rekluse

  • yz4fun

Posted January 04, 2008 - 09:41 PM

#40

yamalube 20/40 4 stroke oil!!!!





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