YZ450F Oil Life


36 replies to this topic
  • Thumpin It

Posted December 25, 2007 - 08:16 PM

#1

I'm a new member so forgive me if this has been asked before.. I have a 2006 YZ450F and I was wondering what the life for the oil and filter is?? I change my oil and filter every time I ride it.. I have been told this is excessive.. What's the opinion of you guys??

Thanks,

Thumpin It...

  • BergArabia

Posted December 25, 2007 - 09:05 PM

#2

I change every 3-5 hours.
But oil is cheap, relative to the bike, so I would be happy changing every ride.
It is a very small amount of oil in a high revving performance engine, so it needs regular changing..

  • grayracer513

Posted December 26, 2007 - 12:40 AM

#3

The answer to your question depends on the oil you select. The thing that beats oil to death faster in a YZF than in a CRF is the transmission. There are very few automotive engine oils that are up to such service, and not as many motorcycle oils as you might think that can deal with it with suffering rapid and significant viscosity loss.

There are a lot of otherwise very fine oils that will do a very good job of protecting your engine. They just won't do it very long. Those, such as Shell Rotella, should be changed every ride. You can get oils that will go to nearly 10, and you don't always have to pay an arm and a leg for them, either.

Get a Scotts oil filter and clean it every oil change.

More details:
http://www.thumperta...432#post2685432

  • Thumpin It

Posted December 26, 2007 - 07:45 PM

#4

The answer to your question depends on the oil you select. The thing that beats oil to death faster in a YZF than in a CRF is the transmission. There are very few automotive engine oils that are up to such service, and not as many motorcycle oils as you might think that can deal with it with suffering rapid and significant viscosity loss.

There are a lot of otherwise very fine oils that will do a very good job of protecting your engine. They just won't do it very long. Those, such as Shell Rotella, should be changed every ride. You can get oils that will go to nearly 10, and you don't always have to pay an arm and a leg for them, either.

Get a Scotts oil filter and clean it every oil change.

More details:
http://www.thumperta...432#post2685432


Thanks,

I use yamalube 20w-40... The old adage "Oil is cheap, Motors are expensive" seems to be true in this case... I am familiar with high performance engines from street/strip cars... I have only ridden two strokes up to this point... Thanks for the responses...

  • grunkthump

Posted December 27, 2007 - 06:56 AM

#5

Gray can you please give an example of an oil that will go 10hours and not cost and arm/leg?? THANKS.

  • SUnruh

Posted December 27, 2007 - 06:58 AM

#6

yes with an oil report showing the SUSVIS or cSt after that 10 hours.

thanks!

  • mkporn

Posted December 27, 2007 - 06:59 AM

#7

Gray can you please give an example of an oil that will go 10hours and not cost and arm/leg?? THANKS.



Will the bait be taken and who then will chime in??:banghead:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 27, 2007 - 08:11 AM

#8

Gray can you please give an example of an oil that will go 10hours and not cost and arm/leg?? THANKS.

yes with an oil report showing the SUSVIS or cSt after that 10 hours.

Bear in mind that I did say "nearly" 10 hours, and that the ability to reach that figure is dependent to a great deal on what kind of riding one does for ten hours. In one sample I took of used Amsoil MCF (10w-40 "Synthetic Motorcycle Oil") from my '03 YZ450 at 9.4 hours of fast trail and desert riding, the oil came back from Blackstone at an SUS viscosity of 67.1, very much still a 40 weight oil. The longest other oil sample I have run was about 7.5 hours on Mobil 1 MX4T (which is now sold as "Racing 4T"). It returned at 66.8. By comparing the virgin samplings of these two oils, the resulting drop in viscosity was around 6 and 10%, respectively, which is good in its own right, and even better since they were still in grade.

Also, if you read the post I linked to, you'll see that I don't very often run my own oil that long, especially with a race involved. (It would normally be closer to 6). But it's comforting to know that the stuff won't roll over on me if it gets stretched a little, and it's a hell of a lot better than the results that Rotella or YamaLube will put up.

As to whether they are expensive, that depends on how much arms and legs go for in your area. Mobil1 Racing 4T is a very, very good oil, but it's a long way from cheap. As a preferred customer, I pay a net price including shipping of about $7/qt for Amsoil MCF, which isn't real cheap, either, but given that I can get 2-3 rides out of it, I think it works out within my range of acceptability. You may disagree.

Another line of oil that produces very good results in ASTM D-6278 shear tests is the Synthetic Blend, Synthetic Extra, and Ultra oils from Maxima. The Synthetic Blend and Synthetic Extra have been pretty reasonably priced when I've seen them on the shelf.

  • mkporn

Posted December 27, 2007 - 09:56 AM

#9

Bear in mind that I did say "nearly" 10 hours, and that the ability to reach that figure is dependent to a great deal on what kind of riding one does for ten hours. In one sample I took of used Amsoil MCF (10w-40 "Synthetic Motorcycle Oil") from my '03 YZ450 at 9.4 hours of fast trail and desert riding, the oil came back from Blackstone at an SUS viscosity of 67.1, very much still a 40 weight oil. The longest other oil sample I have run was about 7.5 hours on Mobil 1 MX4T (which is now sold as "Racing 4T"). It returned at 66.8. By comparing the virgin samplings of these two oils, the resulting drop in viscosity was around 6 and 10%, respectively, which is good in its own right, and even better since they were still in grade.

Also, if you read the post I linked to, you'll see that I don't very often run my own oil that long, especially with a race involved. (It would normally be closer to 6). But it's comforting to know that the stuff won't roll over on me if it gets stretched a little, and it's a hell of a lot better than the results that Rotella or YamaLube will put up.

As to whether they are expensive, that depends on how much arms and legs go for in your area. Mobil1 Racing 4T is a very, very good oil, but it's a long way from cheap. As a preferred customer, I pay a net price including shipping of about $7/qt for Amsoil MCF, which isn't real cheap, either, but given that I can get 2-3 rides out of it, I think it works out within my range of acceptability. You may disagree.

Another line of oil that produces very good results in ASTM D-6278 shear tests is the Synthetic Blend, Synthetic Extra, and Ultra oils from Maxima. The Synthetic Blend and Synthetic Extra have been pretty reasonably priced when I've seen them on the shelf.



That should pretty much be game set and match in gray's favor, could still be argued, but that is all opinion.:banghead:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 27, 2007 - 10:13 AM

#10

That should pretty much be game set and match in gray's favor, could still be argued, but that is all opinion.:banghead:

It was an answer to the question. Don't make it into a contest, if it's all the same to you.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • grunkthump

Posted December 27, 2007 - 12:12 PM

#11

how about Bel-Ray thumper oil (semi-syn)...any reports on it??

  • grayracer513

Posted December 27, 2007 - 01:18 PM

#12

I've only seen lab work on Bel-Ray EXS, their full syn superbike oil. Where most oils showed a sharp drop during the first of 4 test cycles, and the ones that didn't shear out of grade basically didn't drop at all, the Bel-Ray showed a steady decline in viscosity throughout the test, ending up at or just below graded viscosity.

  • brt 426

Posted December 27, 2007 - 09:53 PM

#13

Hello Grayrcer513,
How much cleaner does the CRF's oil come out after a similar time to the Yamaha? I know my YZF426 loves to dirty the oil. Just curious.
Thanks

  • grunkthump

Posted December 28, 2007 - 06:59 AM

#14

well I just ordered 6 gallons of syn. blend Maxima...should be good to go!! SMOKIN' price too!!

  • grayracer513

Posted December 28, 2007 - 07:23 AM

#15

Hello Grayrcer513,
How much cleaner does the CRF's oil come out after a similar time to the Yamaha? I know my YZF426 loves to dirty the oil. Just curious.
Thanks

The CRF has its own problems. It doesn't have a clutch in the engine oil, nor a transmission, but there's only 700cc of oil in the engine. This means that each cc of oil is put to work more frequently during the same time span. It also means that even though there is less than half the contamination by wear metals (hopefully), there is also half as much oil to absorb it, and the net contamination by combustion blow by is the same, or a little worse. The engine oil in a CRF should be changed at least every other ride or more often, regardless of the oil used, IMO.

  • bzackrie

Posted December 28, 2007 - 08:01 AM

#16

For hondas on the motor side, cant you use a good synthetic car oil? Valvoline Synpower, Castrol Syntec, Royal Purple??

  • grayracer513

Posted December 28, 2007 - 08:49 AM

#17

Yes. Because the issue of the shear loads in the transmission are off the table, in a CRF, you can run a lot more of the higher quality automotive oils, like Mobil 1 Extended Performance, or M1 Truck & Suv, or a variety of others without the concern of nearly immediate viscosity loss. You can also use oils with API ECII (or JASO MB) gradings, and not be concerned about it. The oil in the CRF still leads a very hard life, though, so don't cut corners too much, or expect the oil to last an unreasonably long time.

  • BergArabia

Posted December 28, 2007 - 11:11 AM

#18

You need to write a book sometime Gray.. I always learn something from your posts. Thanks mate...:banghead:

  • Parrot

Posted December 29, 2007 - 07:30 AM

#19

Greyracer513

The 2 numbers you provided from testing seems to be the only independent tests on our 450's.
Do a long desert trail ride and your on the bike more than a few hours.

On these long rides you can here the valves increase in noise as the oil is breaking down.

I put in a Rekluse on my bike and they recommend Rotella. It hit 0 last night and there is no way I am going to start my bike with the paste in it.
I am going to heat in the garage and try the Rotella synthetic.

I am trying to get past the hype of advertising because most oils are regulated by federal laws and there is little difference other than the amount of detergents added.

With all the different people here maybe someone could set up a field test spreadsheet, post it here so we can copy it. We then fill in the data, send in a sample and then consolidate the info on this forum.

I wouldn't get to elaborate, because most people want to know is the oil they are using still working or is it crap.

We can spread the cost of the test out so no one person or business is stuck with the bill.

We probably need to get a list of labs that can do the testing, and the cost.

Just a thought, if it's not feasible then never mind.

On the other hand I can see how all here will benefit from the info.

Bob

  • grayracer513

Posted January 01, 2008 - 06:13 PM

#20

Greyracer513

The 2 numbers you provided from testing seems to be the only independent tests on our 450's.
Do a long desert trail ride and your on the bike more than a few hours.

I posted the results of two tests, each of which are at least at the high limit of sensible oil change intervals. I'm not sure what else you want.

As far as doing other testing, I am currently satisfied that the oil I am using retains its viscosity over the length of time that I want to run it, and within which the other attributes such as wear metals, total base number (TBN), etc. are also still within reason, so I personally have neither the need nor the desire to experiment further at the possible expense of premature wear on my own engine. I will, however, have a UOA done on the batch that's in Junior's '06 right now, which has 3.5 days worth of desert riding on it, and is quite probably over 10 hours.

On these long rides you can here the valves increase in noise as the oil is breaking down.

I put in a Rekluse on my bike and they recommend Rotella. It hit 0 last night and there is no way I am going to start my bike with the paste in it.
I am going to heat in the garage and try the Rotella synthetic.

An increase in noise during operation as the oil gets hotter is not an reliable indication of the oil breaking down or losing viscosity to below grade levels, only that it got thinner when it got hot.

I run a 10w-40 year-round, except for two months during the summer, and that oil is suitable down to ambient temps of 10 degrees F up to 114. You probably don't actually ride your bike during the overnight low temp period, but if that concerns you, then a 5w-40 may be what you want. Bear in mind that Shell themselves has said that Rotella T Syn 5w-40 may not have the shear stability to serve as an engine/gear lube for extended periods, and test I have seen have born that out, so again, while I don't advise against using it, I do advise very short oil change intervals.

I am trying to get past the hype of advertising because most oils are regulated by federal laws and there is little difference other than the amount of detergents added.

That isn't as true as you might think, and the fact is that the Feds are interested in things that we aren't. Their goal is to turn every motor vehicle into an air cleaning machine that produces cleaner air than it takes in, and uses no fuel in the process. Ours is to eliminate engine wear. That mismatch of purpose is the reason there even is a JASO MA/MB oil grade to begin with. The other thing that has recently been noted is that most good multigrade engine oils don't hold up that well when used as gear lubes. That has nothing to do with the oil itself, nor even most of the additives. It has only to do with the complex polymers used to give the oil its multigrade character.

In most engine oils these polymers are too physically fragile, and are simply shredded by the transmission in short order. This has actually been known for a long time, but no one connected the dots until just a few years ago. Multigrade gear lubes do exist, and have for some time. They also use long molecule polymers to control the thinning of light base stocks to achieve multi-vis performance, but they use tougher, more costly polymers that most blenders of engine oils for the automotive sector simply don't need to pay for (and generally don't), and that most blenders of motorcycle oils didn't realize they needed, or thought they could get away without using. That's where the difference between most oils and oils like Amsoil MCF/MCV, Mobil Racing 4T, etc., is.

Your idea about an oil test collection is interesting. Let me tinker with that. One of the best, most accessible labs Blackstone.





Related Content

Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
Forums
Photo

100 hrs on 2014 yz450f, shim valves or replace them? by ttr230rider6


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • Hot  79 replies
Forums
Photo

yz250x vs 450 4t comparisons (preferably desert riding) needed by JakeNorthrupYZ450F


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   Yamaha 2-Stroke
  • 9 replies
Wiki
WR Camshaft Swap Info - last post by jamesm113

WR Camshaft Swap Info


Articles
  • 0 replies
Forums
Photo

Snake pit oct 30th by The Anvil


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   California
  • Hot  293 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.