Xl600R/XR650L Hybrid


171 replies to this topic
  • HeadTrauma

Posted August 08, 2009 - 12:44 PM

#81

Will they charge less than $105 if it takes less than an hour to do the dyno runs? Just about all dyno shops I have ever heard of charge only in hour increments. If they do the same, it might be worthwhile to use the hour for a little tuning.

As for checking P-V clearance, I recommend using modeling clay and not Play-Doh. Play-Doh has some memory to it and as a result is not very stable. It also shrinks as it dries.

  • zrxer

Posted August 08, 2009 - 03:47 PM

#82

Will they charge less than $105 if it takes less than an hour to do the dyno runs? Just about all dyno shops I have ever heard of charge only in hour increments. If they do the same, it might be worthwhile to use the hour for a little tuning.

As for checking P-V clearance, I recommend using modeling clay and not Play-Doh. Play-Doh has some memory to it and as a result is not very stable. It also shrinks as it dries.


HT, thanks for the heads-up on Play-Doh. I've only used modeling clay but heard you could use Play-Doh.

Something to think about for the dyno session. It'd probably take me an hour just to change the jets in the twin carbs. though. LOL things are pretty tight in there with the electric starter.

  • ThumpNRed

Posted August 16, 2009 - 08:39 AM

#83

Hi Manos. Not really much to report. I removed the starter and took it to a buddies electrical repair shop to see if he could "juice it up" at all. I'm gonna build bigger battery cables as well.
I'm planning on pulling the engine completely down this winter and do a kickstart install. I'll document that too.


zrxer... I stumbled into this post and have a few questions. I have a 93 xr650l that is going to need a tear down this winter (to replace a broken/welded countershaft). I have never trusted a "button start only" bike and have been looking at the kickstart hole in the engine casting wondering if it would work. From reading your previous posts, it may be as simple as having some machine work done to the case and buying an xr600 countershaft, idler and lever? I may end up drafting on your coattails this winter as you work through your project.
Thanks all for the input.:thumbsup:

  • HeadTrauma

Posted August 16, 2009 - 12:07 PM

#84

You might find something useful here about using/modifying a Dominator countershaft in a 600:
http://www.thumperta...4&highlight=650

  • zrxer

Posted August 17, 2009 - 05:12 AM

#85

ThumpNRed-

Well, I'm gonna find out if it's that simple. I don't know about punching a hole in the cover and bushing it for the kickstart shaft though. Not sure if there's enough meat there to support it. Haven't really looked at it. It may be easier to get an XR or XL600 cover.

  • zrxer

Posted August 17, 2009 - 05:34 AM

#86

I got the starter back and unfortunately he said when he opened it up, it looked like brand new inside! lol He was gonna try to put two more brushes in it (besides the two already there) to give more cranking power but there simply wasn't the room for it. So, he installed new brushes and gave it back to me.
At least now I can rule out the starter as the problem. I'm just about sure I need more battery capacity.

Anyhow, I reinstalled the starter and took it out for a nice Sunday ride around town. Every time I ride this thing it brings a smile to my face. It really does make good power. The excelleration is quite brisk,:worthy: and it's an absolute wheelie machine,:thumbsup: which is a bit surprising considering the gearing-15T cs and 40T rear. That's definately freeway flier gears.

  • HeadTrauma

Posted August 17, 2009 - 12:53 PM

#87

Well, I'm gonna find out if it's that simple. I don't know about punching a hole in the cover and bushing it for the kickstart shaft though. Not sure if there's enough meat there to support it. Haven't really looked at it. It may be easier to get an XR or XL600 cover.


The kickstart side covers actually have a roller bearing for the kickstart shaft to ride on an not a bushing, FYI. I can snap some pics of an XL600 side cover I have if it will help.

  • zrxer

Posted August 17, 2009 - 05:02 PM

#88

The kickstart side covers actually have a roller bearing for the kickstart shaft to ride on an not a bushing, FYI. I can snap some pics of an XL600 side cover I have if it will help.


That's right, they do have bearings. I don't know what I was thinking. :worthy: I have too many other things going on right now as well. Besides the TT600 engine that's apart on the bench, (which incidently, has a plain bearing kick start shaft hole) I recently picked up a Husaberg FC470 and a Buell XB12S Lightning that I'm tinkering on.
Too many things going on up stairs, and not enough room for it. lol:confused: :thumbsup:

  • ThumpNRed

Posted August 17, 2009 - 05:34 PM

#89

That's right, they do have bearings. I don't know what I was thinking. :) I have too many other things going on right now as well. Besides the TT600 engine that's apart on the bench, (which incidently, has a plain bearing kick start shaft hole) I recently picked up a Husaberg FC470 and a Buell XB12S Lightning that I'm tinkering on.
Too many things going on up stairs, and not enough room for it. lol:confused: :thumbsup:


I will stay tuned... :worthy:

  • Manos

Posted November 06, 2009 - 12:41 AM

#90

Manos-

I went to the Harley dealer today to get oil and filter for my new-to-me '04 Buell XB12S, and while there, inquired about a dyno run. They said no problem. $105.00 per hour. I won't be doing any tuning, just go in, make a run, and see what it puts down.
I do have to get the starting issues dealt with before hand though. Don't want to go in there and burn time trying to get it running. lol

Do you have any pics of your build? Are ya gonna document it?

Regarding your piston to valve worries; put some clay (or Playdough) in the valve pockets, assemble the top end, spin it by hand a couple of revolutions then disassemble. Measure the flattened area where the valve hit and see what you come up with clearance wise. Oh, when you put the clay on the piston, shoot some WD-40 or similar oily substance on the valve face so it doesn't stick to the clay.


Hi, zrxer and sorry I've been silent for this long. I have subscribed to thei thread for "instant email notifications" but never get any notifications at all! Any mods listening???

Regarding dyno, I think it might pay better to go and get the full works treatment, meaning pay what it takes to have your engine properly set up. You'll have a bigger smile on your face in the end, and if it is already spot-on as is, then you will probably not be spending any more money than with the 1-hour deal. I'd also recommend going to a dyno-shop that knows these engines. Around where I am, workshops specializing in Harley engines only know Harley engines (if that...!), but then again, I don't know what's available around where you are.

My build is about 80% ready, but the remaining 20% will take 80% of the total time to complete and a disproportionate percentage of the funds (I'm over-exaggerating, but you get the idea...)
I do have some pictures, but not many I'm afraid, and, yes, I am considering a write-up at some point. But I am high jacking your thread now...

Take care and keep us updated with your project :smirk:.

M.

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  • Srad600

Posted November 07, 2009 - 10:03 PM

#91

Toluene and xylene are generally used as solvents. They have very high octane rating and one big bonus is they are already a component of the gasoline that you and I buy at the pump. Because of this they should be very compatible with fuel system components.


Humm so I was looking at the Toluene additive solution and I came across this : "Toluene can be used as an octane booster in gasoline fuels used in internal combustion engines. Toluene at 86% by volume fueled all the turbo Formula 1 teams in the 1980s, first pioneered by the Honda team. The remaining 14% was a "filler" of n-heptane, to reduce the octane to meet Formula 1 fuel restrictions. Toluene at 100% can be used as a fuel for both two-stroke and four-stroke engines; however, due to the density of the fuel and other factors, the fuel does not vaporize easily unless preheated to 70 degrees Celsius (Honda accomplished this in their Formula 1 cars by routing the fuel lines through the muffler system to heat the fuel). [COLOR="Blue"]Toluene also poses similar problems as alcohol fuels, as it eats through standard rubber fuel lines and has no lubricating properties as standard gasoline does, which can break down fuel pumps and cause upper cylinder bore wear[/COLOR]."

Anyone run across or hear of any issues like this? Obviously the bore wear and the fuel lines are my concern. :smirk:

  • HeadTrauma

Posted November 08, 2009 - 06:10 AM

#92

There are lots of rumors, urban legends, and just plain unconfirmed reports about F1's "turbo era" in the '80s. Some include gel fuels, toluene, BMW using coal-derived synthetic fuel with a high specific gravity based on an "old WWII Nazi recipe," and claims of power density in the 1000hp/L range.

Toluene is not nice stuff, but I haven't heard that it eats rubber fuel line.

  • Srad600

Posted November 08, 2009 - 10:07 AM

#93

There are lots of rumors, urban legends, and just plain unconfirmed reports about F1's "turbo era" in the '80s. Some include gel fuels, toluene, BMW using coal-derived synthetic fuel with a high specific gravity based on an "old WWII Nazi recipe," and claims of power density in the 1000hp/L range.

Toluene is not nice stuff, but I haven't heard that it eats rubber fuel line.


Yeah, this was a Wikipedia entry and it seemed to be the only place where I saw that specific comment. Maybe they meant if you run the bike on 100% Toluene? I suppose a 10% mix would be much easier on the internals.

  • HeadTrauma

Posted November 08, 2009 - 12:26 PM

#94

Honda supposedly ran 84% toluene fuel, but why, I don't know. I would have expected the power levels they were reaching to require more octane then that. Then again, that other 16% could have been anything.

One of the few MSDSs I could find for unleaded gasoline was from Citgo and it lists toluene and xylene as major components. I wouldn't worry about either of them damaging fuel lines.

  • Manos

Posted December 02, 2009 - 04:20 AM

#95

What's new zrxer?

M.

  • zrxer

Posted December 02, 2009 - 05:11 AM

#96

Hey Manos, how ya doin'?
I haven't done anything to speak of on the ol' girl. What I have done is remove the engine and get it on the bench. lol.
Whenever I think I'm going to get going on it again, some other project seems to pop up. Hopefully sometime this winter I'll make some progress.
I have an idea what direction I wanna take this thing but I don't want to say quite yet because I have a habit of changing my mind often. :banghead:

What's new with you?

  • Manos

Posted December 02, 2009 - 07:06 AM

#97

I have a habit of changing my mind often. :banghead:


I know what you mean. Same here...

What's new with you?


Not much, taking it slow.
I stumbled into this one
http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=852293
but I'm pretty sure I can force my will onto some piece of metal!

Take care and keep us posted, will you? I'm following suit (sort of...)

Manos

  • Manos

Posted February 05, 2010 - 03:25 AM

#98

Dear zrxer,

Long time no see (= read). Any news/update on your bike?

Please check my post:
http://www.thumperta...549#post9136549

Thanks
Manos

  • zrxer

Posted February 05, 2010 - 06:58 AM

#99

Nothing really. Haven't touched the engine. However I HAVE installed an XR650L rear wheel/swingarm assembly. :ride:

  • zrxer

Posted December 29, 2010 - 07:34 AM


Hey everyone. I know it's been a long time but I THINK I'm gonna start moving forward on this thing.
I have an idea what direction I wanna go now, sooooooo..... let's see what happens...





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