PWR Stage 3 Cooling Kit


23 replies to this topic
  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 21, 2007 - 12:38 PM

#1

Has anybody used, this kit? I was looking to purchase one and had some questions.
#1 How is checking the oil level with this kit?
#2 How much more oil capacity is there with this kit?
#3 Is it worth the money VS. the performance?

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted December 21, 2007 - 02:06 PM

#2

link to product please

  • KJ790

Posted December 21, 2007 - 05:15 PM

#3

Here's my personal feelings on it. Yamaha's aren't known for overheating problems. I doubt you would even notice a performance advantage (except for all that weight you save with the lighter wallet). Second of all, you will still have to change your oil very often because it will still be abused by the clutch and tranny, even though it won't be getting as hot. Another issue is that the bottom of the radiator is the most vulnerable area on a bike. I know the bottom of my radiators get hammered by rocks. People allways crush radiators in crashes, I'm not sure I would want my oil in the bottom of my radiator. Finally, that is a buttload of money to spend. You can get oil coolers for much less. You can build your own oil cooler for about $25 using an oil cooler from a quad and fabbing two brackets to mount it behind your radiator like many factory teams were using this past season.

  • tnl

Posted December 21, 2007 - 06:00 PM

#4

How about the aftermarket fans on the Yami's? I haven't seen anyone here in AZ with one on a yami but many on KTM's. The summertime heat here is really tough. I've heard of guy's using CPU fans?

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 21, 2007 - 06:09 PM

#5

link to product please

http://www.pwr-perfo...com/motox.htm#1
Her ya go!

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 21, 2007 - 06:11 PM

#6

Here's my personal feelings on it. Yamaha's aren't known for overheating problems. I doubt you would even notice a performance advantage (except for all that weight you save with the lighter wallet). Second of all, you will still have to change your oil very often because it will still be abused by the clutch and tranny, even though it won't be getting as hot. Another issue is that the bottom of the radiator is the most vulnerable area on a bike. I know the bottom of my radiators get hammered by rocks. People allways crush radiators in crashes, I'm not sure I would want my oil in the bottom of my radiator. Finally, that is a buttload of money to spend. You can get oil coolers for much less. You can build your own oil cooler for about $25 using an oil cooler from a quad and fabbing two brackets to mount it behind your radiator like many factory teams were using this past season.

Great advise! I am one to save money, however they are trick. What oil cooler would you recommend? I can fab some brackets.

  • KJ790

Posted December 21, 2007 - 07:39 PM

#7

This looks like a nice little cooler you could mount behind your radiator if you really wanted one, only 12 bucks (there is also a silver one for 2 dollars more)
http://cgi.ebay.com/...sspagenameZWDVW

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 21, 2007 - 07:47 PM

#8

This looks like a nice little cooler you could mount behind your radiator if you really wanted one, only 12 bucks (there is also a silver one for 2 dollars more)
http://cgi.ebay.com/...sspagenameZWDVW

What kind of adapter plate would you have to use to tie into the existing system. Who makes one of those sir!

  • KJ790

Posted December 21, 2007 - 07:54 PM

#9

This is the cheap ghetto oil cooler, you can also buy the Jagg oil cooler that comes with all the mounting hardware and plumbing for about $220. I'd have to look to see where to put the oil lines on a 450 to do it yourself. It is increadibly easy on a 250F since they have an external oil line running from the oil pump to the top of the head that you can reroute through your cooler.

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 21, 2007 - 08:28 PM

#10

This is the cheap ghetto oil cooler, you can also buy the Jagg oil cooler that comes with all the mounting hardware and plumbing for about $220. I'd have to look to see where to put the oil lines on a 450 to do it yourself. It is increadibly easy on a 250F since they have an external oil line running from the oil pump to the top of the head that you can reroute through your cooler.

I would think you buy one from pwr as a replacement for their kit. I will ask.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • todds924

Posted December 21, 2007 - 10:12 PM

#11

Has anybody used, this kit? I was looking to purchase one and had some questions.
#1 How is checking the oil level with this kit?
#2 How much more oil capacity is there with this kit?
#3 Is it worth the money VS. the performance?


totally unnesessary.........a waste of money.

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 22, 2007 - 09:50 AM

#12

totally unnesessary.........a waste of money.

more trouble that it's worth. I have never had a problem with overheating on my Yami!:banghead:

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted December 22, 2007 - 01:23 PM

#13

I would like to have one for my KX250F. I wonder why they dont make em for kawi's and zuk's yet?

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 22, 2007 - 01:29 PM

#14

You know I wonder with the added oil amount and the added resistance(head Pressure) if the oil pump would be able to handle it over time. I'm sure the factory team run pumps with higher head pressures.

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted December 22, 2007 - 01:41 PM

#15

the oil pump is gear driven isnt it? I dont see why it would wear any differently. Doubt that by adding a small amount of oil it would create that much more load on the system. Oil pressures should reach 100psi plus in either 250F or 450 applications. Good rule of thumb is 10psi per 1000rpm.

  • swatdoc

Posted December 22, 2007 - 03:05 PM

#16

here's my take guys, and it's just my opinion.

First, as a rule Yahahas aren't prone to overheating as was said earlier, but that is in MOST conditions, not all. In hot temperatures and running the bike hard for 30 minutes or more, overheating CAN occur. Just check out the latest issue of Motocross Action where they review the works bikes - just about every single 4 stroke, Langston's Yamaha included, is running an oil cooler. They also go to great lengths to help cooling any way they can - Cycra scooped radiator shrouds, carbon fiber/gold foil heat shields, foil wrapped radiator lines, coolant catch tanks - you name it, heat is a problem. Maybe not for Joe Schmoe local racer, but for fast guys on hot days, yes.

I don't understand the statement about having to change your oil more often cause it will be "abused by the clutch and tranny"?????????? The oil won't be getting abused any more than it already is - it's already circulated in the clutch and tranny. The cooling kit just taps the oil flow from the oil filter, routes it to the cooler, then back to the filter.The route thru the motor is not changed in any way. The oil life should be better for 2 reasons, not only cooler, but you will be using a slightly larger volume, which further aides in cooling and lowers the stress on the oil as there is more to go around.

The PWR radiators are much stronger han stock, and the pro shops I've talked to (like MDK) say they will survive most minor crashes, unlike the stock radiators.

Actually, for the 06 and up Yamahas, you can't get a cheaper oil cooler - I've been checking for about 9 or 10 months now. The Jag cooler only works for 05 and older bikes. You could POSSIBLY make your own setup, but it would require extensive custom machining and fabrication, and would end up costing way more than the PWR setup, unless you have your own machine and fabrication shop. Some might say you can just tap nto the exterior oil line you see on the 450's - no you cannot - it's a non pressurized vent line only. Those cheapy radiators are nice, but how do you plan on getting the oil to them? Without the adapter being made by PWR, there is no simple way at all to tap into the oilflow on our bikes (Grey has a good idea of how this could be done, but it isn't easy and would require splitting the cases). A fan for the radiator is a great idea - but how will you power it? You could use an aftermarket lighting stator for $200 I suppose, but I don't know if thier 50 watt max output (even less when converted to DC) would be sufficient to run a typical motorcycle radiator fan, and I know of no CPU fans that are waterproof. Really the only practical way for an oil cooler on the newer Yamis is gonna be the PWR kit.

I plan on buying the kit as soon as it's available. I'm not a pro racer, so why would I need one? Well my bike is a street legal supermoto 450, and overheating is a HUGE issue with us. For a SM racer, no big deal, as the speeds are pretty high on a continuous basis, and you don't see the high loads on the motors like running an MX bike thru the sand at southwick. BUT, for a street bike the big problem is stoplights - our bikes heat up VERY quickly at a light. I'm doing just about everythng I can think of to eliminate heat and keep my bike as cool as possible so I have a little more time at a stop. Another factor for a street driven 450 is the continued high rpm running, which is harder on the motor. Cooler oil and a greater oil volume should help the motor's longevity, if only a little.

Lastly, don't forget the cool factor - it looks neat - I make no apologies for spending ridiculous amounts of money on something for my bike that looks cool. I'm actually eyeing up that carbon fiber subframe/airbox that Twin Air puts out.

Bottom line guys - for most people it is probably totally unnecessary, but it will be beneficial for some. And, it's not totally useless otherwise not damn near every factory team would be running them!

  • KJ790

Posted December 22, 2007 - 09:23 PM

#17

I don't understand the statement about having to change your oil more often cause it will be "abused by the clutch and tranny"?????????? The oil won't be getting abused any more than it already is - it's already circulated in the clutch and tranny. The cooling kit just taps the oil flow from the oil filter, routes it to the cooler, then back to the filter.The route thru the motor is not changed in any way. The oil life should be better for 2 reasons, not only cooler, but you will be using a slightly larger volume, which further aides in cooling and lowers the stress on the oil as there is more to go around.


You didn't understand what I was saying. I was saying that just because the oil would be running cooler doesn't mean you can change your oil less often because the oil would still be cantaminated and abused by the clutch and tranny. You can't throw this thing on your bike and then only have to change the oil once a season because the oil stays cooler.

You could POSSIBLY make your own setup, but it would require extensive custom machining and fabrication, and would end up costing way more than the PWR setup, unless you have your own machine and fabrication shop. Some might say you can just tap nto the exterior oil line you see on the 450's - no you cannot - it's a non pressurized vent line only. Those cheapy radiators are nice, but how do you plan on getting the oil to them? Without the adapter being made by PWR, there is no simple way at all to tap into the oilflow on our bikes (Grey has a good idea of how this could be done, but it isn't easy and would require splitting the cases). A fan for the radiator is a great idea - but how will you power it? You could use an aftermarket lighting stator for $200 I suppose, but I don't know if thier 50 watt max output (even less when converted to DC) would be sufficient to run a typical motorcycle radiator fan, and I know of no CPU fans that are waterproof. Really the only practical way for an oil cooler on the newer Yamis is gonna be the PWR kit.


I know that the external oil line is unpressurized. There are a couple ways to do it on a 450. You can do it Grey's way, which seems difficult. You can also drill two holes in your oil filter cover (one in line with the hole for the oil feed to the filter, one near the edge of the filter cover to put the oil back into the area surrounding the filter) and block off the passage between the two holes with some JB weld. Tap the holes and put in two fittings. This is all that the PWR cover is. You can buy a spare oil filter cover for 5 bucks off ebay and an oil cooler for a TRX for 12 bucks. Throw in the JB weld and your total is around $20. This is not extensive tooling, if you can run a drill press long enough to drill two holes then you can do this. Granted, it would be a lot easier to build your own oil cooler for a 250F do to the external oil lines.

Lastly, don't forget the cool factor - it looks neat - I make no apologies for spending ridiculous amounts of money on something for my bike that looks cool. I'm actually eyeing up that carbon fiber subframe/airbox that Twin Air puts out.


I agree with you on this one, they are trick, but I can make my bike just as trick and spend a lot less money.

  • Parrot

Posted December 23, 2007 - 06:44 AM

#18

I have a lot of problems with my 07 YZ 450 over heating. Especially riding the technical trails out here in western Colorado, and Moab and the San Rafael Swell trails. High heat, low air flow, in the deep canyons, and washes, on trails such as 5 Miles of Hell.
I had boiled all the water out so damn much that I put on an over flow return, and a Boyesen high volume water pump.
I have not been able to test the Boyesen yet, since the weather closed in here. I am trying to increase water flow first.
The over flow has saved my bacon more than a few times when the temps are well above the 100's. We carry 3 liter camel packs and don't need to be wasting it by putting in a radiator that just boiled out.
I have radiator guards on the bike, that I am positive have decreased the flow some but there is no way I am riding in the desert with out them.
We here have talked about a fan and stator but I am still trying to keep the weight of the bike down.


As for purely oil cooling purposes, it makes more sense to keep it separate from the water jacket.

Bob

  • swatdoc

Posted December 23, 2007 - 02:20 PM

#19

KJ - I did misunderstand you - I thought you were saying you would have to change the oil MORE often when running the oil coler setup. That didn't make sense. So we're on the same page there.

I haven't sen the PWR cover up close obviously (the 250 kit is the only kit out right now, and it's only been out a few weeks) so I can't really say how easy or difficult it would be to reproduce their cover on your own. I find it difficult to believe it would be quite as easy as you say, but I could be wrong. Certainly if they would sell just the oil filter cover you could make a system yourself much cheaper, but I doubt they'll be doing that. It just seems it will be a little more complicated than drilling 2 holes and slapping on a little JB Weld. But, I plan on getting the kit, so I'llbe the first one to take and post pictures so all of us can see just how easy or difficult it would be to replicate on your own.

Another couple points to remember is that the kit is not just an oil cooler kit, it also includes heavy duty oversize radiators, which themselves will help the bike run cooler and be more crash resistant. In addition, silicon hoses are also included. The cost of the hoses and radiator themselves is about $500, so that is a significant portion of the cost. Also, the $999 listed as the price on the PWR website is SUGGESTED retail. MOTOSPORT already had the kit listed as $949 in their catalog, and they ship for free ( a big deal for me,being in Hawaii). That only represents a 5% disccount, and I have bought several items for 15-20% off retail thru Motosport. You just need to call them and see what they'll deal with you on as far as price. Might be able to get the kit for 850 to 900, then sell the hoses which I don't need for 50-75 bucks.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 23, 2007 - 04:31 PM

#20

An oil cooler is only helpful in keeping the oil cooler. It will do very little in terms of helping the engine run any cooler from a standpoint of observed coolant temperatures. Oil is not a very good coolant.

If they were cheaper, or easier to fab up, I'd recommend them just because of the very small oil capacity of modern MX thumpers, and how much heat exposure the oil gets. But most people don't push the bikes as hard as the top pros do for as long as they do, so it isn't normally an issue.

As coolers go, those built into the radiator tanks are far superior to the air cooled ones. For one thing, a smaller cooler is needed to remove more heat. For another, since the coolant in the bottom tank will run between 100-170 degrees, they eliminate the risk of over-cooling the oil, and actually assist in shortening the warm-up of the engine.

It would, wherever possible, be preferable to run them on the return circuit rather than the feed side, though.





Related Content

Forums
Photo

James Stewart back on a YZ450F by YamaLink


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  47 replies
Forums
Photo

First Hare scramble tips by dhend8


Dirt Bike   General Dirt Bike Forums   General Dirt Bike Discussion
  • Hot  33 replies
Forums
Photo
Motocross

Thinking about Yamaha 250... by Arctic Pride


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  491 replies
Forums
Photo

The "going back to the other darkside" adventure... by Monk


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   KTM   250/350/450/505 SX-F & XC-F (4-Strokes)
  • Hot  94 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.