Clutch Basket Noise?


19 replies to this topic
  • Ryanthegreat1

Posted December 10, 2007 - 08:11 PM

#1

Hi guys and gals

I ride a 1999 xr650l and I am getting some terrible ratcheting/chain slap/chunking kind of noise coming from the right had side of the motor it the low to mid rpm's when the motor is loaded and at part throttle aka. tractor mode. It sort of a reciprocating chunking sound that seems to be in time with power stroke.

At first I thought this was a timing chain issue as the motor has been recently rebuilt and the original chain tensioner was reused. I managed to replace the tensioner, shaft and spring yet have had no change in the strange engine noise. This is really a terrible sound like the motor is ready to come apart!

The only other idea I have for the possible noise is the "cush drive" on the back of the clutch basket with the 6 or so springs in it. I seem to recall on reassembly that if turned to release the pressure on the springs a few of the springs were free to float around in their cavities. I guess I am wondering if anyone else has noticed this or had a similar issue and by replacing the clutch basket had solved the problem. I really don't want to shell out another wad of cash and not fix the issues I am having.

Forgot to add that the clutch basket and transmission have roughly 16k miles. Reason for rebuild was for more power. 683cc 10.5:1 and Hotcam

  • Thumpmeister

Posted December 10, 2007 - 09:11 PM

#2

Was your chain replaced in the rebuild? What other parts were re-used? Does it only do it in the low-end, or does it do it all through the power band? And does it make any difference if your on the gas, or not?

It sounds like it could be your cam chain. I know the older XR's can make a similar sound if the cam chain is loose. Also, what you describe sounds VERY similar to a sound my buddies CRF 450 makes in the low end, and when he's on the gas. He replaced his entire clutch last summer with a Barnett basket and cover, and new plates, springs, etc. After all that, the bike still made the noise. We haven't gotten into his top-end to know if the cam chain is shot, but replacing the clutch didn't solve his problem. I'm not saying that couldn't be the cause of your problem, thats just what we found on his bike.

The only other thing I could really think of would be your kickstart mechanism. I can't really see the clutch making that kind of sound. However, I have been wrong before...

Anything else you can tell us about the subject?

  • weskc35k

Posted December 10, 2007 - 11:49 PM

#3

Could be the throw out bearing.
Idle the bike in neutral and if there is any noise pull in the clutch ,if the noise goes away it's the throw out.
Have a look at the clutch hub and see if it is marked.

  • Ryanthegreat1

Posted December 11, 2007 - 12:00 PM

#4

The sounds I am only getting while in gear with the clutch out in the low to mid RPM's at say throttle tip in to 40%. Only while accelerating when getting the strong distinct power pulses out of the motor.

The drive chain and sprockets are all fairly new with no tight spots or uneven ware.

It almost sounds as if the springs in the "cush drive" of the clutch basket have been compressed for so long that they have lost their unloaded length and now are able to fully compress and bottom out and cause a hard stop when it reaches the limit of travel.

I wonder if the springs could be hacked out and then weld up the "cush drive" to make it solid. Does anyone know if the XR600 had a solid drive on the clutch basket? I know that a few smaller bikes like the Xr250 and Xr100 have solid drive clutch baskets.

I feel I am not explaining the "cush drive" very well but I would compare its function as being similar to the springs in a sprung hub friction plate for a car or truck. Like the image below.

Posted Image

  • rodrigo

Posted June 10, 2010 - 10:19 PM

#5

I have a 97 that makes the same noise you describe. It only has 7k miles on it and runs great. I think you may be on to something with clutch dampener noises. I was not aware that it had this type of set up. It might be normal but do admit that it is an ugly sound that makes me throttle down at times to prevent it.

  • uranys

Posted June 11, 2010 - 09:25 AM

#6

Hmmm, I think I may have the same problem also

I had thought that it was top end noise, but after replacing everything (cam, cam chain, tensioner, piston, and finally the rod) the noise is still there.

It's most pronounced at partial throttle under load at mid-rpms and gets louder as the engine warms up. I would describe it as a clacking or a rattle.

I don't think it's serious as my bike has done it for a few thousand miles now. Your theory about the basket interests me. I was wondering if it was warped clutch plates or something.

Did your bike start making the noise on it's own, or did it appear after you did some work? My engine wasn't a runner when I got it, so I don't know if it's something I did, or it already had the problem.

  • uranys

Posted June 11, 2010 - 09:39 AM

#7

Here is a pic of the basket

Posted Image

So you think the noise is the springs rattling?

  • Horri

Posted June 11, 2010 - 01:42 PM

#8

So you think the noise is the springs rattling?

I can't say for sure but I will relate the tale my mechanic told me. He used to recondition those baskets somehow replacing those springs with new ones as he said they do cause rattley engines,,he said thats why my 86 XR600 is still kinda rattley after a full bearing/everything else reco,, I must ask him how he went about it or if it's still possible for it to be done..Normally you replace the basket and be done with it (expensive) ..further investigation will be done.

  • uranys

Posted June 15, 2010 - 06:28 PM

#9

In the clymer manual it states "Inspect the damper springs. If they are sagged or broken, replace the housing"

I took my basket out. There are six springs, five have red paint on them, one with yellow. None of them are broken, but all of the red springs have some play and most of them have visible wear on both the spring and the slot in the housing where the spring sits.

Here is a pic of the wear on the slots:

Posted Image

There is also about an 1/8" of play if I grab the basket and twist the big gear back and forth.

So is this normal, or is this thing junk?

  • brianhare

Posted June 16, 2010 - 07:46 PM

#10

I have a noise i`ve been trying to hunt down too...i get when at light throttle in any gear,hear it best at about 40 mph in 5th........listen to the soundtrack i took of it,,tell me if it sounds familiar..........i replaced the drive chain,all the slides....and both sprockets,i was sure it was that....i can tighten the chain to any setting,still there..pulled the valve cover,chain appears tight,tensioner works......no idea.i`d pay good money to get rid of this noise...chick-a-chick-chick kinda rattle goes away with clutched pulled in,sounds quieter under more power...

http://smg.photobuck...nt=100_3309.flv

Brian

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Horri

Posted June 21, 2010 - 02:44 PM

#11

Just spoken to the guy who used to do the replacement springs down here,,He says he will still do it so the one off my XR600 will be coming off and getting done when I get around to it..Apparently he drills off the rivets and replaces the springs and re does the rivetting somehow..Good to know they can be fixed..forgot to ask about a rough price. Will do next time I see him as I'm picking up some carb jets from him sometime soon so will report back on that.,

By the way Brian I listened to your sounds,,all I could get was a huge cacophony of noise,,dunno if it's a joke or just a bad recording..

  • brianhare

Posted June 21, 2010 - 03:44 PM

#12

Just spoken to the guy who used to do the replacement springs down here,,He says he will still do it so the one off my XR600 will be coming off and getting done when I get around to it..Apparently he drills off the rivets and replaces the springs and re does the rivetting somehow..Good to know they can be fixed..forgot to ask about a rough price. Will do next time I see him as I'm picking up some carb jets from him sometime soon so will report back on that.,

By the way Brian I listened to your sounds,,all I could get was a huge cacophony of noise,,dunno if it's a joke or just a bad recording..


:thumbsup::smirk: No,,not a joke..just crappy recording.........if you listen and don`t concentrate on the wind noise you`ll hear a noise.......i`m goingt to try to get a better recording....but it`s not easy trying to ride and record the noise with my digicam........it sounds like a chain slapping arround???????chick-chick-a-chick irregular sounding...

Brian

  • Horri

Posted June 21, 2010 - 04:03 PM

#13

Listened again and I hear the noise. Sounds kinda loud,,almost like a Cam Chain or something..Hard to say but it's certainly noisy. Whats it like at idle,,any racket like that or not??.

Anyway later..Off to get some uhmwpe to see if I can make some new chain sliders out of it for the 600's..those things are a hell of a price..try $150.00. I figure I can make something to replace those ones just back from the Sprocket and on the top and bottom of the Swingarm..bit of work but nothing a diyer can't handle..

  • brianhare

Posted June 22, 2010 - 12:05 PM

#14

Listened again and I hear the noise. Sounds kinda loud,,almost like a Cam Chain or something..Hard to say but it's certainly noisy. Whats it like at idle,,any racket like that or not??.

Anyway later..Off to get some uhmwpe to see if I can make some new chain sliders out of it for the 600's..those things are a hell of a price..try $150.00. I figure I can make something to replace those ones just back from the Sprocket and on the top and bottom of the Swingarm..bit of work but nothing a diyer can't handle..


No noise at idle,or reving .........just when moving.....

I found the noise this morning though,,,there may be more of these bikes out there with this problem too...it was put together incorrectly from the factory as far as i can tell...........the previous owner never touched this engine,,,or that`s what he told me....go to this link i posted so i don`t need to rewrite this...

http://www.advrider....postcount=18637

Thanks for looking Horri......i appreciate trying to help me...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

P.S. if you want me to send you an OE slide let me know...i can get it cheaper here for you...


Brian

  • Horri

Posted June 22, 2010 - 12:24 PM

#15

Hmm,,Interesting find. So are we to assume that's you posting over at advRider and that was your problem..If so, well done and Yep I have the measurements of all those washers (for the XR/XL600 anyway) just in case of such an eventuality as fiches don't give you thickness,,just 20mm or whatever..Not good when you get washer confusion as the only way to really know if a washer is correct is to buy a replacement.Been there done that,,hence my washer chart..

And Yes,,Beer is a must after that discovery,,many many beers..
Which bike is that problem on Brian,,the 600 or the 650 as on checking my chart I don't think I've got the thickness of those two washers..may have missed doing them..Any idea of which went where and the thickness of each so I can add them,,

Edited by Horri, June 22, 2010 - 12:52 PM.


  • brianhare

Posted June 22, 2010 - 01:50 PM

#16

Hmm,,Interesting find. So are we to assume that's you posting over at advRider and that was your problem..If so, well done and Yep I have the measurements of all those washers (for the XR/XL600 anyway) just in case of such an eventuality as fiches don't give you thickness,,just 20mm or whatever..Not good when you get washer confusion as the only way to really know if a washer is correct is to buy a replacement.Been there done that,,hence my washer chart..

And Yes,,Beer is a must after that discovery,,many many beers..
Which bike is that problem on Brian,,the 600 or the 650 as on checking my chart I don't think I've got the thickness of those two washers..may have missed doing them..Any idea of which went where and the thickness of each so I can add them,,



XR650L........and yes that was my post over there...i`d like to get my screen names to read the same...

Hey do you have that washer chart so you can send it.....i`d love to have that so in the future this can be avoided....

Funny thing is though...i thought the starter ring gear was not spinning when running.........so if it`s not spining when the engine is running it must be resting on that bump and just rattle back and forth a little????????????

And no i didn`t bother to measure the thickness.........crap........anyway the thicker washer goes in the back against the crank.....they are both 34.1mm i think


B

  • Horri

Posted June 22, 2010 - 02:54 PM

#17

My "chart" isn't exactly a chart,,more a couple of sheets of paper with id, od, thickness written down on them,,it's for the 600s not the 650s though..Welcome to what I have if you pm me,,I have no printer or any of that guff so I could type it out and email it if you want..I'm the only one who could understand some of it as I have little drawings which aren't to artistic..Your call,,I have it anyway if we ever need the info.

  • Horri

Posted July 09, 2010 - 12:29 PM

#18

Said I'd get a price on the Clutch basket refurbishment..I have,,NZ $140.00 approx..Gave him two baskets to do. He's kinda busy at the moment so they won't be ready for about a month..I'll report back on the look of the finished job then.

  • brianhare

Posted July 09, 2010 - 01:19 PM

#19

Said I'd get a price on the Clutch basket refurbishment..I have,,NZ $140.00 approx..Gave him two baskets to do. He's kinda busy at the moment so they won't be ready for about a month..I'll report back on the look of the finished job then.


Yes Horri,report back,i`d be very interested if the springs are nice and tight,and your thoughts on if it made any difference,,cured any noise,etc.......

If it helps any i`d be interested in sending you a basket to get fixed if you don`t mind helping......

I still have some noise.....not sure what it is,,i hate noises,i`m pretty anal on stuff like that:lol::banana:

I`m going to change my cam chain slides,tensioner and spring,and chain and sprockets to be sure it`s not that........like i said,i hate noises...unless it`s normal operating noises..:)


Brian

  • Horri

Posted July 10, 2010 - 01:49 PM

#20

No problems Brian..I'll pm you when I get the finished product back and run it in one of my noisier 600s. Those baskets are kinda heavy so I'd imagine the freight on them would be quite high..Last time I sent a rear carrier to one of the members here it cost me more in freight than I got for the carrier..Anyway..later..off to watch some MX up the road a bit..Finally some fine dry weather here today.,,been a seriously wet winter in NZ this year, events already been cancelled 3 times,,finally we have go today.





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