i nvr knew u didnt have to hold the clutch in to downshift. hah
53
1 votes
10 Absolute MX Practice Tips by Gary Semics
Started by
Bryan Bosch
, Dec 10 2007 02:15 PM
88 replies to this topic
157 posts
Location: South Carolina
Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:43 PM
iracekx said:
I have been told you can upshift without the clutch if you roll off the throttle just a little. You just don't want to be hammering into it while upshifting. Correct me if I am wrong. I do it on my R1 and have 22,000 miles without a bit of problems.
these shifting tips are for mx, dont try to downshift your crotch rocket on the track without the clutch and yes you can upshift without the clutch with just a tiny little chop of the throttle (or none) but i dont think either of these techniques are "good" for the bike, but they DO make you faster
89 posts
Location: Washington
Posted 24 November 2008 - 11:53 PM
As a 99% street rider, I wish I were as cool as any of you MX riders.
Some day I hope. Guess I need to find some of you that are near me to get som skills learned.
Some day I hope. Guess I need to find some of you that are near me to get som skills learned.
1588 posts
Location: Texas
Posted 01 December 2008 - 04:05 PM
That's pretty good advice ........I totally agree .....stay between the trees ....Dr.D..........
39 posts
Location: California
Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:49 PM
will it mess up your gears at all if you dont pull in the clutch lever when you shift down??
58 posts
Location: United Arab Emirates
Posted 29 December 2008 - 06:34 AM
Well..... its obviously not doing it any good.... but because no torque (or very little) is being put on the gearing system, it does very minimal damage. Since i got my bike I have never used my clutch to shift down, and it doesn't feeling different at all!
P.S - correct me if im wrong
Ride Safe
P.S - correct me if im wrong
Ride Safe
1642 posts
Location: California
Posted 09 January 2009 - 02:51 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
[B]#4
It is necessary to use the clutch when you up shift because the transmission has torque on the gears from the power of the engine.
Motorcycles have sequential transmissions. They only need the trans "unloaded" to perform an up-shift (using the clutch on down-shifting is more beneficial to the life of the trans because it's difficult to un-load the trans when in this situation.). This is done by simply backing off the throttle momentarily while you up-shift. Matter of fact, for road race bikes, they make "quick-shifters". Quick-shifters tie into the ECU (or Power Commanders etc..) and the shift lever. When the shift lever is activated, they momentarily cut the spark and fuel(they do it in the neighborhood of 45-100 milliseconds) which unloads the transmission, allowing for full-throttle up-shifts. As I wrote, you can un-load the trans on your own, by simply "breathing" the throttle momentarily while you make the shift. No damage to the transmission will result if you make the shift while backing off on the throttle. Sequential transmissions are made for this kind of shifting. I've been personally doing it forever. The only time I'll back-shift without the clutch however, is while I'm in the air, and the throttle is off. When in the air and having the throttle shut off, the transmission is un-loaded, thus allowing the back-shift to happen without damaging the trans.
1313 posts
Location: Georgia
Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:12 AM
zpetrichko said:
personally i don't clutch on the downshift. it just seems easier without it and plus the engine brake on my bike helps alot in the corners if i just downshift no clutch. the only thing that i have a problem with is the upshift standing up goin through woops
When entering the whoops, you have try to enter in the same gear you will exit. Generally speaking you will progresivelly gain speed thru the whoops and you really dont want to to find yourself shifting while on the whoops. IMO, the whoops require maximun concentration and adding another mental/motor(physical) process will complicate everything exposing you to mistakes.
19 posts
Location: California
Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:50 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
Here are last 9 tips that have appeared in previous issues of the ThumperTalk Member eNewsletter. Number 10 will be listed in the January newsletter and finally posted here thereafter.
10 Absolute MX Practice Rules by Gary Semics ( http://www.gsmxs.com )
In order to improve your race results, you first must improve your practice strategies. Then practice the correct techniques until they become automatic.
Absolute rule number 1 - There’s a mind to the madness. When you go out to practice have a purpose behind your practice. Don’t just race around the track, making the same mistakes over and over. Always spend some time separating and working at your weak points and techniques.
Now that we’ve got that right, here’s tip number one of a ten quick tips series on how to become a better racer.
#1 You need to be able to work the levers and hold onto the grips independently.
The most common mistake here is to hold onto the grips with all four fingers than grab at the levers only when you really have to use them. This way is so award that the rider doesn’t use the clutch and front brake levers often enough and when they do use the levers they can't hold onto the grips well.
The thing that takes time and practice to develop is the ability to hold onto the grips and work the levers accurately at the same time, many riders use two fingers on the clutch, and many use one finger. It's best to use one finger on the front brake. Get used to it and make it a habit.Give up a finger or two on the grips in order to work the levers independently from holding onto the grips.
#2 When you're not using the shifter or brake the ball of your foot should be on the foot peg.
A general rule to go by is that if you’re not using the shifter or brake you should be on the balls of your feet. When you need to use the shifter or brake simply move up to the arches of your feet, than when you’re not using the shifter or brake move back to the balls of your feet again. While you are riding you should be using this technique frequently changing back and forth. This is true whether sitting or standing.
The benefits are: it adds another joint to your body's suspension (your ankle joint) for better movement and feel, your feet won't hit the ground in ruts and get ripped off the foot pegs, and you won't hit the shifter or brake by accident. The only exception to this technique is if you are going to land very hard (like casing a jump) then you should be on the arches of your feet so you don’t sprain or break your ankles. This is defiantly one of those techniques that you have to think about and practice separately. Keep checking the bottom of those boots.
#3 Dragging the rear brake will keep the rear wheel from kicking up as much on certain bumps and obstacles.
When a beginner rider gets into trouble, like having the rear wheel kick up too high, he usually just freezes and waits to see what happens. One thing you can do to avoid this kicking up affect is to drag the rear brake when you think the rear wheel is going to kick up. This helps hold the rear suspension together and greatly reduces the kick up of the rear wheel.
The next time you see that you’re going to hit a big bump or a whoop harder than you wanted to, touch or drag that rear brake and you'll see how much it holds the rear end down. This is another good reason you need to be able to use the rear brake from any body position on the motorcycle, because in this case, you will be standing with your weight back.
#4 You do not need to use the clutch when you down shift.
Some inexperienced riders use the clutch to downshift and then just hold it in while they brake the rest of the way into the corner. Using the clutch to downshift is not necessary and it brakes up the steadiness of braking with the help of the engine's backpressure.
It is necessary to use the clutch when you up shift because the transmission has torque on the gears from the power of the engine. But, there is very little torque on the gears when the throttle is off and you’re slowing down. So, leave that low end lever (the clutch) out when you’re down shifting and braking for a corner.
#5 Overgrip and elbow position. Keep your elbows up and out away from your sides.
A rider is giving up a lot of control if he or she has a style of grabbing the grips straight on and riding with their forearms parallel to the ground. By doing this they don't have the correct leverage factors between their upper body and the motorcycle. It's also more difficult to open the throttle.
High over grip and high elbows will enable the rider to have full range of the throttle through their full range of body positions on the motorcycle. This technique also gives you the correct leverage factors between your body and the motorcycle through your full range of movement.
#6 Body position for accelerating and braking.
Most of the time when you accelerate you keep your weight forward and when you brake you keep your weight back. When you fail to do this technique correctly you end up with your body weight in the wrong place at the wrong time. This can cause you to be out of control and be working a lot harder than you need to.
Most of the time when you accelerate you need to lean forward into the force of acceleration and when you brake you need to lean back against the force of braking. This allows your body position to maintain the center of balance. The motorcycle and you become one operating unit and you can better maintain control. Don't be a statue. Get used to moving on that motorcycle.
# 7 What to do with your inside foot in a corner.
Put your inside foot out for the part of the turn where you’re going from braking to accelerating (exit dex) and get it back on the footpeg as soon as possible. The common mistake here is to put your foot out for the turn too early. Many riders do this to help them with balance. They are making the mistake of using their leg as a counter balance. Then after they make the corner they keep their foot off the peg too long. This allows most all of their weight to be on the seat, which makes those accelerating bumps beat their ass.
The correct way is to put your foot out for the least amount of time as possible. This is in the part of the turn where you’re going from braking to accelerating. I call this the exit dex. Keep your weight low, on the footpegs, and use the controls and your upper body movements for balance and control.
#8 The rowing movement.
Time the rowing action of your body movement with the compression and rebound of bumps and other obstacles on the track. You need to row back as the rear wheel tries to kick up.
Many riders just ride the motorcycle across rough ground or whoops and never try to time how they weight and unweight the suspension. Then the motorcycle ends up weighting and unweight their bodies with a mind of it's own. This technique requires good timing and anticipation. You have to anticipate where you’re going to weight and unweight (to help the suspension compress and rebound) the motorcycle in order to make it compress, skip, jump, fly, and land just how and where you want it to. This is not just a straight up and down movement. While you’re helping the suspension compress down and rebound up you have to move back and forth in order to keep the motorcycle somewhat level. Learn to do this right, because I guarantee you, it will feel good and you'll live longer.
#9 How far to look ahead.
Look far enough out ahead of you to be ready for what's coming up. If you can't see it (because of an obstacle) remember what's there. The most common mistake is to always look too close in front of you and not look ahead far and soon enough. Don't race the track by every ten feet. Race it one section at a time and blend the sections together with a purpose. When done correctly it's an art form and when you go beyond that, it's magic.
Your vision should always be scanning the track in front of you, focusing on the most important things, then scanning and focusing on the next most important thing, and so on. You should ride with this main focus and your peripheral vision. Set yourself up so you’re going to be on the right line well in advance. And if you’re trying to past someone, look beyond them, not at them. You can't win races by following people.
Again, the final tip of this series will appear in the January issue of the ThumperTalk Member eNewsletter. Be on the lookout for it.
10 Absolute MX Practice Rules by Gary Semics ( http://www.gsmxs.com )
In order to improve your race results, you first must improve your practice strategies. Then practice the correct techniques until they become automatic.
Absolute rule number 1 - There’s a mind to the madness. When you go out to practice have a purpose behind your practice. Don’t just race around the track, making the same mistakes over and over. Always spend some time separating and working at your weak points and techniques.
Now that we’ve got that right, here’s tip number one of a ten quick tips series on how to become a better racer.
#1 You need to be able to work the levers and hold onto the grips independently.
The most common mistake here is to hold onto the grips with all four fingers than grab at the levers only when you really have to use them. This way is so award that the rider doesn’t use the clutch and front brake levers often enough and when they do use the levers they can't hold onto the grips well.
The thing that takes time and practice to develop is the ability to hold onto the grips and work the levers accurately at the same time, many riders use two fingers on the clutch, and many use one finger. It's best to use one finger on the front brake. Get used to it and make it a habit.Give up a finger or two on the grips in order to work the levers independently from holding onto the grips.
#2 When you're not using the shifter or brake the ball of your foot should be on the foot peg.
A general rule to go by is that if you’re not using the shifter or brake you should be on the balls of your feet. When you need to use the shifter or brake simply move up to the arches of your feet, than when you’re not using the shifter or brake move back to the balls of your feet again. While you are riding you should be using this technique frequently changing back and forth. This is true whether sitting or standing.
The benefits are: it adds another joint to your body's suspension (your ankle joint) for better movement and feel, your feet won't hit the ground in ruts and get ripped off the foot pegs, and you won't hit the shifter or brake by accident. The only exception to this technique is if you are going to land very hard (like casing a jump) then you should be on the arches of your feet so you don’t sprain or break your ankles. This is defiantly one of those techniques that you have to think about and practice separately. Keep checking the bottom of those boots.
#3 Dragging the rear brake will keep the rear wheel from kicking up as much on certain bumps and obstacles.
When a beginner rider gets into trouble, like having the rear wheel kick up too high, he usually just freezes and waits to see what happens. One thing you can do to avoid this kicking up affect is to drag the rear brake when you think the rear wheel is going to kick up. This helps hold the rear suspension together and greatly reduces the kick up of the rear wheel.
The next time you see that you’re going to hit a big bump or a whoop harder than you wanted to, touch or drag that rear brake and you'll see how much it holds the rear end down. This is another good reason you need to be able to use the rear brake from any body position on the motorcycle, because in this case, you will be standing with your weight back.
#4 You do not need to use the clutch when you down shift.
Some inexperienced riders use the clutch to downshift and then just hold it in while they brake the rest of the way into the corner. Using the clutch to downshift is not necessary and it brakes up the steadiness of braking with the help of the engine's backpressure.
It is necessary to use the clutch when you up shift because the transmission has torque on the gears from the power of the engine. But, there is very little torque on the gears when the throttle is off and you’re slowing down. So, leave that low end lever (the clutch) out when you’re down shifting and braking for a corner.
#5 Overgrip and elbow position. Keep your elbows up and out away from your sides.
A rider is giving up a lot of control if he or she has a style of grabbing the grips straight on and riding with their forearms parallel to the ground. By doing this they don't have the correct leverage factors between their upper body and the motorcycle. It's also more difficult to open the throttle.
High over grip and high elbows will enable the rider to have full range of the throttle through their full range of body positions on the motorcycle. This technique also gives you the correct leverage factors between your body and the motorcycle through your full range of movement.
#6 Body position for accelerating and braking.
Most of the time when you accelerate you keep your weight forward and when you brake you keep your weight back. When you fail to do this technique correctly you end up with your body weight in the wrong place at the wrong time. This can cause you to be out of control and be working a lot harder than you need to.
Most of the time when you accelerate you need to lean forward into the force of acceleration and when you brake you need to lean back against the force of braking. This allows your body position to maintain the center of balance. The motorcycle and you become one operating unit and you can better maintain control. Don't be a statue. Get used to moving on that motorcycle.
# 7 What to do with your inside foot in a corner.
Put your inside foot out for the part of the turn where you’re going from braking to accelerating (exit dex) and get it back on the footpeg as soon as possible. The common mistake here is to put your foot out for the turn too early. Many riders do this to help them with balance. They are making the mistake of using their leg as a counter balance. Then after they make the corner they keep their foot off the peg too long. This allows most all of their weight to be on the seat, which makes those accelerating bumps beat their ass.
The correct way is to put your foot out for the least amount of time as possible. This is in the part of the turn where you’re going from braking to accelerating. I call this the exit dex. Keep your weight low, on the footpegs, and use the controls and your upper body movements for balance and control.
#8 The rowing movement.
Time the rowing action of your body movement with the compression and rebound of bumps and other obstacles on the track. You need to row back as the rear wheel tries to kick up.
Many riders just ride the motorcycle across rough ground or whoops and never try to time how they weight and unweight the suspension. Then the motorcycle ends up weighting and unweight their bodies with a mind of it's own. This technique requires good timing and anticipation. You have to anticipate where you’re going to weight and unweight (to help the suspension compress and rebound) the motorcycle in order to make it compress, skip, jump, fly, and land just how and where you want it to. This is not just a straight up and down movement. While you’re helping the suspension compress down and rebound up you have to move back and forth in order to keep the motorcycle somewhat level. Learn to do this right, because I guarantee you, it will feel good and you'll live longer.
#9 How far to look ahead.
Look far enough out ahead of you to be ready for what's coming up. If you can't see it (because of an obstacle) remember what's there. The most common mistake is to always look too close in front of you and not look ahead far and soon enough. Don't race the track by every ten feet. Race it one section at a time and blend the sections together with a purpose. When done correctly it's an art form and when you go beyond that, it's magic.
Your vision should always be scanning the track in front of you, focusing on the most important things, then scanning and focusing on the next most important thing, and so on. You should ride with this main focus and your peripheral vision. Set yourself up so you’re going to be on the right line well in advance. And if you’re trying to past someone, look beyond them, not at them. You can't win races by following people.
Again, the final tip of this series will appear in the January issue of the ThumperTalk Member eNewsletter. Be on the lookout for it.
Well i think ur dumb so be quiet other wise omething will happen to you:foul:
13 posts
Location: North Dakota
Posted 30 October 2009 - 07:53 PM
one he didn't say, is to steer with ur knees. It helps me a bunch in rough sections.
2160 posts
Location: British Columbia
Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:53 PM
For all the comments regarding clutch usage while shifting- bikes use a constant mesh gearbox. Thus there are dogs sliding into slots rather than a friction cone trying to match the speed of a gear to the shaft like in a car or pickup syncromesh transmission. This is the same for street or dirt bikes.
What wrecks them is when you shift too gently and the dogs are not all the way into the slot when the load hits, with or without the clutch. Then you can round off the dogs and the edges of the slots, or even bend a shift fork.
The key is, if you are going to shift aggressively under power, shift aggressively. You have to get the shift done before the transmission turns enough for the dog to get to the end of the slot.
I am sure this is going to wear the transmission faster than only doing slow trail rides on minimally hilly terrain using the clutch every time, but it won't wear the clutch as much, so call it a trade.
What wrecks them is when you shift too gently and the dogs are not all the way into the slot when the load hits, with or without the clutch. Then you can round off the dogs and the edges of the slots, or even bend a shift fork.
The key is, if you are going to shift aggressively under power, shift aggressively. You have to get the shift done before the transmission turns enough for the dog to get to the end of the slot.
I am sure this is going to wear the transmission faster than only doing slow trail rides on minimally hilly terrain using the clutch every time, but it won't wear the clutch as much, so call it a trade.
180 posts
Location: Texas
Posted 04 December 2009 - 11:13 AM
Sorry everyone but my bike just feels different if i dont use the clutch so ill always be a clutch user plus i love poping the clutch in the bermand comin out haulin ass! lol
7479 posts
Location: Ontario
Posted 04 December 2009 - 11:53 AM
sexybbq said:
Sorry everyone but my bike just feels different if i dont use the clutch so ill always be a clutch user plus i love poping the clutch in the bermand comin out haulin ass! lol
180 posts
Location: Texas
Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:36 AM
Crazyced said:
Using the clutch to downshift and feathering it out of corners are 2 different things.
never said it was the same just added that on there as a plus. id rather take the milliseconds it takes to pull in the clutch and ride my bike the way it was meant to be rode
1915 posts
Location: Philippines
Posted 14 January 2010 - 01:06 AM
Bryan Bosch said:
#3 Dragging the rear brake will keep the rear wheel from kicking up as much on certain bumps and obstacles.
#4 You do not need to use the clutch when you down shift.
Some inexperienced riders use the clutch to downshift and then just hold it in while they brake the rest of the way into the corner. Using the clutch to downshift is not necessary and it brakes up the steadiness of braking with the help of the engine's backpressure.
First, Gary is a 500cc Worlds Champ...On a Husky too!!! Can we all please bow at once?
Who else here is a worlds champ? He has literally forgot more than most of us know or ever will know about riding. Even if you can do what he says, you most likely will never be a Worlds Champion. But you might be able to pick up something that is useful to you riding and improve your basic skill level. Arguing with him or about what is saying here just proves you are not teachable and will be left in his dust ...lol... I hope I did not bust anyones bubble here
On tip #4, he is also saying do not ride the clutch during the turn after the downshift. This is the big point it appears as this world champ says it screws up the braking to some degree. Do all PRO do this? Not sure. I'll try it someday maybe but it is just 1 of another 100 or so mistakes I make on a track.
I have been using tip 3 to save my ass forever....maybe I got this one down because it is so easy to perform
I use it on single track also...
Edited by ray_ray, 14 January 2010 - 01:32 AM.
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