Zip Ty vs. R&D Powerbowl


70 replies to this topic
  • todds924

Posted December 10, 2007 - 07:52 PM

#21

Just look me up you are more than welcome to take it for a spin!

I'm going to maybe ride there on Thursday and will be racing on Sunday for sure, maybe Saturday too.


Thanks buddy! I will definitely make it a point to see you. I will be there Sat. and Sunday.

  • Quicktoy

Posted December 10, 2007 - 08:57 PM

#22

The SAME FMF pipe. The bike sold on Saturday for 4500.00 or i would take some photos and post them. The reed bike was only a practice bike that had the markings" HL-TX..Practice" written with a sharpie above the clutch cover on the engine case. The bike did have gas in it....race gas and the float bowl was drained. The suspension was stock- never been ridden- OEM. Each fork tube had the last 6 VIN #'s written on them and so did the shock body. I agree with you that the works suspension that was on it was taken off and the original parts put back on. I assume the markings on the Reed bike meant "HONEY LAKE TEXAS" Practice. Oh yeah...it also had a 90/100/21 Bridgestone on the front if you know what that means. All these bikes had AMA tech stickers too.

Then that particular bike is NOT the exact same bike he races on, because factories, whether its sport bike, MX, whatever, do not leave that kind of stuff on the bikes

  • todds924

Posted December 10, 2007 - 09:30 PM

#23

Then that particular bike is NOT the exact same bike he races on, because factories, whether its sport bike, MX, whatever, do not leave that kind of stuff on the bikes


PRACTICE BIKES!!!!!! I wish you could of checked them out in person just to see first hand what i'm talking about...Interesting non the less:thumbsup:

  • swatdoc

Posted December 10, 2007 - 10:09 PM

#24

todd - I did read the post and don't think I missed anything. 250, 450, 150, whatever - the same principle is in effect - if the carb isn't tuned right the bike won't run right no matter what mods are done to the carb.

another point to be made to help clarify what I' trying to say is this - even if you have a stock carb that is running well and put an R&D floatbowl on it - you will have to tune not only the squirt duration but possibly the jetting as well, as the circuits are changed slightly. The R&D bowl includes a heavy duty spring to helpeliminate the separation in the AP system when hitting the throttle wide open - this makes a dramatic change in the squirt volume and duration, as anyone who had done the AP wiring or o-ring mod will tell you. If you don't adjust the squirt duration by using the adj leak jet, the squirt will be WAY off and could easily make the bike run much worse than the properly tuned stock carb. You can't just slap the R&D floatbowl on as is and expect it to be great. You have to tune it. If this is what your friend did, it wouldn't surprise me that you felt it ran like garbage, but it's not the R&D float bowl's fault - it'sthe fault of your friend not tuning it correctly

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 11, 2007 - 09:23 AM

#25

todd - I did read the post and don't think I missed anything. 250, 450, 150, whatever - the same principle is in effect - if the carb isn't tuned right the bike won't run right no matter what mods are done to the carb.

another point to be made to help clarify what I' trying to say is this - even if you have a stock carb that is running well and put an R&D floatbowl on it - you will have to tune not only the squirt duration but possibly the jetting as well, as the circuits are changed slightly. The R&D bowl includes a heavy duty spring to helpeliminate the separation in the AP system when hitting the throttle wide open - this makes a dramatic change in the squirt volume and duration, as anyone who had done the AP wiring or o-ring mod will tell you. If you don't adjust the squirt duration by using the adj leak jet, the squirt will be WAY off and could easily make the bike run much worse than the properly tuned stock carb. You can't just slap the R&D floatbowl on as is and expect it to be great. You have to tune it. If this is what your friend did, it wouldn't surprise me that you felt it ran like garbage, but it's not the R&D float bowl's fault - it'sthe fault of your friend not tuning it correctly


What effect are you looking for or how do calibrate the squirt duration with the leak jet?:banghead:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 11, 2007 - 09:57 AM

#26

Here's my beef with the whole leak jet thing:

Squirt duration is intended to be set by selecting the AP diaphragm with the correct length stop button on it. The timing of the start of the squirt is adjusted at the AP linkage (procedure is in the manual).

The true purpose of having a leak jet at all has nothing to do with limiting or adjusting the strength or duration of the pump squirt. Its actual purpose is to completely eliminate the squirt during slower or partial throttle openings. The AP is a fairly positive displacement pump, and if the carb has just a simple AP circuit with an inlet and a discharge passage, the pump will discharge a given volume of fuel regardless of how fast or slowly the throttle is opened, depending solely on the amount the diaphragm moves. In an engine with a good sized AP discharge, this can cause there to be an excess of fuel delivered at times when the throttle is being opened more slowly and/or partially, like when you're dialing your way through a turn or a power slide.

A leak circuit solves this problem. Think of a hand pump at the bottom of a vertical pipe. If you push down on the plunger, water runs out the top, even if you move slowly. But if you put a small hole in the pipe half way up, water moving up the pipe leaks out unless you push fast enough to get it to the top before it leaks away.

With that, it should be noted that you obviously can adjust the pump squirt by using a leak jet circuit, but in doing so, you can potentially run into problems with the way the circuit is actually intended to work. This can be especially true where the output from the pump itself has been bumped way up and then an oversized leak jet used to dial it back down.

  • swatdoc

Posted December 11, 2007 - 02:04 PM

#27

Wes - the biggest effect most people are after is to eliminate or reduce the slight bog that many bikes have when cranking open the throttle - going from zero to full throttle basically. With the R&D float bowl, you adjust the squirt duration/volume by simply turning the adjustable screw. The best way to do this is with the carb off the bike. Have gas in the bowl and the cables hooked up. Open the throttle as fast as you can and time the duration of the squirt and then adjust the srew to shortenor lengthen the time till it is about 3/4 to 1 second in duration.
Squirt timing is adjusted with the screw on the AP linkage as Grey said. You want to time the squirt so it just misses the slide on it's way up. The Zip Ty billet linkage stillallows you to make this critical timing adustment, however the Ready Racing billet linkage does not - it screws the linkage together using the adjustment screw and locks it all together so it is non adjustable.
The R&D float bowl has other things it does supposedly, like keep the main jet supplied with fuel better because it helps to eliminate some of the sloshing around the jet, etc.,but again, the bigreason people like it is to help eliminate the bog - when tuned correctly.

  • todds924

Posted December 11, 2007 - 05:49 PM

#28

todd - I did read the post and don't think I missed anything. 250, 450, 150, whatever - the same principle is in effect - if the carb isn't tuned right the bike won't run right no matter what mods are done to the carb.

another point to be made to help clarify what I' trying to say is this - even if you have a stock carb that is running well and put an R&D floatbowl on it - you will have to tune not only the squirt duration but possibly the jetting as well, as the circuits are changed slightly. The R&D bowl includes a heavy duty spring to helpeliminate the separation in the AP system when hitting the throttle wide open - this makes a dramatic change in the squirt volume and duration, as anyone who had done the AP wiring or o-ring mod will tell you. If you don't adjust the squirt duration by using the adj leak jet, the squirt will be WAY off and could easily make the bike run much worse than the properly tuned stock carb. You can't just slap the R&D floatbowl on as is and expect it to be great. You have to tune it. If this is what your friend did, it wouldn't surprise me that you felt it ran like garbage, but it's not the R&D float bowl's fault - it'sthe fault of your friend not tuning it correctly


I can totally agree with what your saying. This weekend will be very interesting as i will have a chance to compare my 08 with Chilio's at Glen Helen. From what he says his bike rips and carburates flawlessly and his was set up at the track by Dean of R&D. I believe the 250f I rode could be made alot better with the powerbowl. Who knows, the guy who owns that bike works for Sudco if your familiar with them. They are selling the powerbowls also. I will let you know how this weekend turns out.....who knows? i might be a player on one of these gadgets. I'm always open to new ideas especially if i see and feel them work first hand.

  • Quicktoy

Posted December 11, 2007 - 06:43 PM

#29

make sure you try and get your hands on one of them factory carbs this weekend too ;-) have fun, you'll absolutely be amazed at the R&D

  • R1DEAN

Posted December 11, 2007 - 07:43 PM

#30

The R & D powerbowl is one of the best mods that I have done to my bike. I bought it directly from Dean @ the track and paid $100, that include Dean tuning and jetting my bike.


Interesting thread, however, I remember working on your Yamaha that
day at Parris, I installed the [COLOR="Blue"]R&D POWER PUMP[/COLOR] ($100),
not the [COLOR="Red"]R&D POWER BOWL[/COLOR]($249.95).

Just thought there needed to be a little clarification regarding the price.

Dean@R&D

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  • todds924

Posted December 11, 2007 - 08:53 PM

#31

make sure you try and get your hands on one of them factory carbs this weekend too ;-) have fun, you'll absolutely be amazed at the R&D


Oh a funny guy ehhhhhh???? Thanks bro! I'll let you know what i think.:banghead:

  • Quicktoy

Posted December 12, 2007 - 03:48 AM

#32

Interesting thread, however, I remember working on your Yamaha that
day at Parris, I installed the [COLOR="Blue"]R&D POWER PUMP[/COLOR] ($100),
not the [COLOR="Red"]R&D POWER BOWL[/COLOR]($249.95).

Just thought there needed to be a little clarification regarding the price.

Dean@R&D


Whats going on Dean? this is Scott with Bankstons Kawasaki KTM. We absolutely love the bowls and hopefully will be making another big order soon.

BTW guys order straight from Dean. I believe in giving the small business owners themselves all the actual profit

Scott

  • Ga426owner

Posted December 12, 2007 - 08:44 AM

#33

Whats going on Dean? this is Scott with Bankstons Kawasaki KTM. We absolutely love the bowls and hopefully will be making another big order soon.

BTW guys order straight from Dean. I believe in giving the small business owners themselves all the actual profit

Scott




BTW all R&D powerbowl owners, who has the best discounted pricing for both of these products.....some of us hate retail MSRP pricing....including me:thumbsup:

  • Slinkyman16

Posted December 12, 2007 - 09:04 AM

#34

well like mentoed above if you go threw ziptye they take off 100 bucks of the retail. but that is if you do their carb mod.

  • albertaguy

Posted December 12, 2007 - 09:12 AM

#35

got mine here at the TT store, about 250 I think. It's a very nice machined componenet, looks like a lot of thought and work gone into it. Can't see it beeing offered for much less. Actually I was surprised it was that cheap for all it does.

  • R1DEAN

Posted December 12, 2007 - 05:50 PM

#36

got mine here at the TT store, about 250 I think. It's a very nice machined componenet, looks like a lot of thought and work gone into it. Can't see it beeing offered for much less. Actually I was surprised it was that cheap for all it does.


My thoughts exactly, but my opinion is biosed. It's better is
someone else says it.:banghead:

  • todds924

Posted December 12, 2007 - 06:32 PM

#37

My thoughts exactly, but my opinion is biosed. It's better is
someone else says it.:banghead:


Hey Dean, I heard the powerbowls are being made different than i guess you would say the "first generation" ones were. I got a buddy at Sudco who says the ones now look more like they are cast instead of machined<cnc'd> like the first ones????? You doing anything different?

  • Chilio

Posted December 12, 2007 - 07:52 PM

#38

Interesting thread, however, I remember working on your Yamaha that
day at Parris, I installed the [COLOR="Blue"]R&D POWER PUMP[/COLOR] ($100),
not the [COLOR="Red"]R&D POWER BOWL[/COLOR]($249.95).

Just thought there needed to be a little clarification regarding the price.

Dean@R&D



Hey Dean, thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I thought the part was a "power bowl" because it attached to the bowl. I didn't realize you had a complete "bowl".

  • R1DEAN

Posted December 12, 2007 - 10:02 PM

#39

Hey Dean, I heard the powerbowls are being made different than i guess you would say the "first generation" ones were. I got a buddy at Sudco who says the ones now look more like they are cast instead of machined<cnc'd> like the first ones????? You doing anything different?


Machined from billet is a great/quick way to launch a new product,
however, it is far to time consuming to continue with that method.
Each Power Bowl = 1 hour of machine time, no way to keep up with
the demand, the new [COLOR="Blue"]Power Bowl[/COLOR] is a die cast part.

Performance is equal to the original billet piece, but much less time
to produce each part.

Dean@R&D

  • todds924

Posted December 13, 2007 - 05:50 PM

#40

Machined from billet is a great/quick way to launch a new product,
however, it is far to time consuming to continue with that method.
Each Power Bowl = 1 hour of machine time, no way to keep up with
the demand, the new [COLOR="Blue"]Power Bowl[/COLOR] is a die cast part.

Performance is equal to the original billet piece, but much less time
to produce each part.

Dean@R&D


Thanks Dean.





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