MXA jan Issue tests Grant Langston's 08 450


32 replies to this topic
  • adamdf

Posted December 03, 2007 - 05:09 PM

#1

Most of you will be very surprised (and proud) of your bike when you read this article. To sum it up, pretty much the only works parts on Grant's bike are for personal preferrence and custom style. He even uses the stock 48mm forks, but obviously revalved. he says he didn't like the bigger works forks because they did not allow the front end to flex enough. And get this! Grant has obviously tested every offset clamp there is and he likes to run the stock 25mm offset! The next thing, is that they provide 5 tips which Grant uses to help his bike turn flawlessly, ALL OF WHICH us guys in the yami forum have been doing already! The only works performance part that Grant has on his bike is the shock. MXA says they see why Grant won that title, he wasn't tired at the end of the motos because his bike is so easy to ride, something all of us already know the new YZF is!

I know to some of you, you may be thinking "so what". But over the last few months many of us have said that Grant's bike is nothing like the one we have on the showroom floors, but MXA has finally cleared this up. Even i am surprised to see that all Grant's bike is, is a customized race bike with barely anything that we can't go out and buy ourselves. If you ask me, Yamaha has got theirsleves the perfect salesman, the guy just loves the bike mostly the way it is.

One thing to note, which i have not seen many of us recommend on here for better turning (i do find it odd but...) is that Grant runs his rear wheel as far back as possible which they claim puts more weight on the front wheel. While i do know that a shorter bike will turn around faster, this seemed to help Grant.

Details on the motor: typical internal motor mods that any engine builder can do, white brothers exhaust pipe with stepped header (they claim one will be available to the public soon). Keihin carb bored out to 41mm. The tranmission gear ratios are all stock and Grant runs 50 or 51 tooth sprocket depending on the track (stock is 49)

That pretty much sums it up, feel free to ask if they said anything else you were curious about and i'll post up.

  • hi everybody

Posted December 03, 2007 - 05:17 PM

#2

I just got that issue today..I was suprised to hear he uses the stock forks.

  • MotoXT

Posted December 03, 2007 - 06:13 PM

#3

Thanks for the heads-up on the article adam. I'm not surprised at all. The '08 is an amazing machine. I've heard others complain about the handling and compare to other bikes that have the front wheel "glued" to the ground, blah blah blah....It took me about 8 hours to get the bike set-up to where I was comfortable for the terrain I ride (mostly sandy/loam MX), and I tried different sag settings, fork heights, compression, rebound, MS3 front tire... and now it handles great. I had the suspension done by Pro Action. I am surprised about running the rear wheel farther back to weight the front wheel. I'm going to try an e-axle on it just to see what dropping the off-set might do. If it makes it better, great, if not I won't be too worried about spending the money.

As far as the power deliver, I never rode it with the stock exhaust. I went with Dr. D full system and the power is absolutely awesome and very controllable. In fact, I rode indoor for the first time last weekend since getting the bike. The track was hardpack and blue groove, and I never had a problem with the rear wheel spinning me into trouble. For set-up, I went in a few clickers on the compression and raised the forks 4mm. Smooth power and sharp cornering, even with the MS3 on the front - a soft terrain tire.

This is my first Yamaha and I couldn't be much happier.

  • racerxx276

Posted December 03, 2007 - 07:01 PM

#4

I've got an 06,07 and now an 08 yz450f. Put a fmf slip on and had enzo do the suspension, everything else is stock. I just grin all the time I'm on the 08...

I had A-kit suspension on my 05 RMZ450 which was very spoiling, till I got my enzo suspension back, the 08 is that good! I've been running my rear wheel all the way back since 06 when I realized it put more weight on the front wheel...
I should sell the 06 and 07 and get another 08, first WORC race is in january!

  • grayracer513

Posted December 03, 2007 - 08:20 PM

#5

And get this! Grant has obviously tested every offset clamp there is and he likes to run the stock 25mm offset!

Smething to bear in mind about this particular aspect is that even though the clamps are the same offset as the '06/'07, the steering geometry is not. The axle was moved back in the fork lugs, and the result is the same as using a 24 mm clamp offset on the two earlier bikes. Just like the Doctor said.

  • DPW

Posted December 03, 2007 - 09:15 PM

#6

check out the oil filter location...what the heck? That is not a stock oil filter, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. I guess I need to read the story and stop drooling over the picture

  • grayracer513

Posted December 03, 2007 - 10:25 PM

#7

check out the oil filter location...what the heck? That is not a stock oil filter, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. I guess I need to read the story and stop drooling over the picture

Crap. Now I have to go and buy the thing.

  • BergArabia

Posted December 03, 2007 - 11:54 PM

#8

Crap. Now I have to go and buy the thing.

Are you talking the 08 or the oil filter mod?

  • swatdoc

Posted December 04, 2007 - 12:18 AM

#9

aren't you guys talking about the oil COOLER, not oil filter?
What you're seeing is the oil pump cover which replaces the stock oil filter cover.
The arcticle says it was made by Pro Circuit, but I called them today and they have no plans to make it available.
I did check with PWR a few days ago,and they just came out with their oil cooler kit for the Yam 250F's, and say their kit for the 450F's should be available in a few weeks

  • adamdf

Posted December 04, 2007 - 05:16 AM

#10

Smething to bear in mind about this particular aspect is that even though the clamps are the same offset as the '06/'07, the steering geometry is not. The axle was moved back in the fork lugs, and the result is the same as using a 24 mm clamp offset on the two earlier bikes. Just like the Doctor said.


The thing is, how do you know how much the axle was moved back? And it is not that i doubt you but everytime i hear this sort of thing, the only logical question i ask myself is why didn't yamaha just put 24mm on Grant's 07 if that was all they needed to do to make it as good as the 08 is supposed to be now?

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  • tw557

Posted December 04, 2007 - 06:04 AM

#11

The offset can be figured out by the listed trail and rake numbers. The calculations do seem to represent about a mm offset change. Who really knows for sure what The change was that helped Langston but this artical sums it up pretty good for me. Throughout my 25 years of sometimes serious and not so serious racing, so much of the results are in your head not the bike. Here he admits the bike became a little better but coupled with that was the other riders getting hurt. His dad states he needs to be motivated to go fast. All of the factors got him motivated at the same time he got the new bike.
http://www.racerxill...t-langston.aspx

  • maddogyz250f

Posted December 04, 2007 - 06:41 AM

#12

Checkout this interview with Chad Reed. He says both he and Grant raced stock bikes at the Bercy SX sans the stock tires. They went 1-2 in that race if I remember correctly.

http://www.transworl...1690065,00.html

  • grayracer513

Posted December 04, 2007 - 07:28 AM

#13

Are you talking the 08 or the oil filter mod?

The magazine.

What you're seeing is the oil pump cover which replaces the stock oil filter cover.

Cool. Now I don't have to buy it. :thumbsup:

The thing is, how do you know how much the axle was moved back? And it is not that i doubt you but everytime i hear this sort of thing, the only logical question i ask myself is why didn't yamaha just put 24mm on Grant's 07 if that was all they needed to do to make it as good as the 08 is supposed to be now?

Looking at the steering numbers for the '08, the manual lists a head angle of 26.9 and the trail is at 115.2 mm. Comparing that to an '07, you can see that something has been moved. A little simple trigonometry leads you to the discovery that one way or other, the axle has been moved back about one millimeter closer to the steering axis to achieve this. Since it's been established that the clamp offset has not been changed, that leaves the forward offset of the axle in the fork as the only other place this can be changed.

Changing the axle offset instead of the clamps makes sense from a manufacturer's viewpoint because it's as simple as moving the center of the axle bore 1 mm in the tooling, and since the new caliper was added, the left axle lug is probably an entirely new part anyway. Honda has changed the axle offset on the CRF so many times I can't keep track of it anymore. It just seems like the preferred way to do it. I'll bet the makers of aftermarket triple clamps are glad it is.

As to why no 24's last year, who knows? Maybe they tried them and didn't like them, maybe they never tried. Maybe Langston is a razor sharp, brilliant test rider like Doug Dubach, or maybe he's a head case like Mert Lawill. But there's two things that get overlooked in this discussion quite a bit. Ones is that suspension plays a huge role in cornering, and the other is that all of the aluminum YZ450's are very sensitive to small tweaks in their setup. It's surprising how much difference a little change in sag or fork height, and even bar position will make in the way it corners.

  • adamdf

Posted December 04, 2007 - 07:44 AM

#14

The magazine.


As to why no 24's last year, who knows? Maybe they tried them and didn't like them, maybe they never tried.


That's the thing. I highly doubt that they did not try 24s. It just seems odd. Either Langston is a head case and this whole thing is in his mind, or they tryed 24s and the result simply was not as good as the result with the changes made to the 08 frame. I guess we will never know. Point is, it is pretty impressive that the Yamaha factory race bikes are pretty darn close to stock as far as obtainable performance mods go.

  • bajamoto

Posted December 04, 2007 - 08:21 AM

#15

It just seems odd. Either Langston is a head case and this whole thing is in his mind, or they tryed 24s and the result simply was not as good as the result with the changes made to the 08 frame.



Nope Langston is a head case, no changes were made to the frame. its all the placebo factor by Yamaha marketing guru's.

Yamaha tells Grant in the pits...

"yeah Grant, we totally made a bunch of changes to the 08 frame, the flex is a little different as well as the geometry, just like you wanted..."

Meanwhile back at Yamaha evil PR Marketing HQ...

"AHAHHAA Grant is sooo stupid, luckily we pay him and he beleives all our marketing hype, but WE MUST stop the evil GrayRACER on TT, he knows the truth about frame flex! AND HE IS TRYING TO TELL THE WORLD!!!!"

:thumbsup:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 04, 2007 - 08:56 AM

#16

I detect bitterness in your tone. :thumbsup:

  • bajamoto

Posted December 04, 2007 - 09:00 AM

#17

I detect bitterness in your tone. :busted:


oh come on, that was a funny joke.

cheap shot, but put an austin powers view on it and you will laugh.

:thumbsup:

  • tw557

Posted December 04, 2007 - 09:11 AM

#18

Well by Grant's own words he was becoming a little bit of a head case. Just the smallest changes to the bike can help the head. Some guys need the bike to be near perfect to ride fast where Ricky or James can ride pretty much and adapt to the bike and go fast. 4 wheel racing needs a great machine, 2 wheels you need more supreme confidence then you need a pretty good machine. No doubt about it though, a bad front end on a bike can kill the confidence.

  • bajamoto

Posted December 04, 2007 - 09:17 AM

#19

Well by Grant's own words he was becoming a little bit of a head case. Just the smallest changes to the bike can help the head. Some guys need the bike to be near perfect to ride fast where Ricky or James can ride pretty much and adapt to the bike and go fast. 4 wheel racing needs a great machine, 2 wheels you need more supreme confidence then you need a pretty good machine. No doubt about it though, a bad front end on a bike can kill the confidence.



this is the truth, racing is a very mental sport. any pro sport is a mental game.

i was just taking a shot at gray for being an "old school" racer, stuck in his ways.

"Now Cole... We put Match Tires on your car, you CAN take Roudy on the outside..."

  • tw557

Posted December 04, 2007 - 09:26 AM

#20

[COLOR="LightBlue"]i was just taking a shot at gray for being an "old school" racer, stuck in his ways.

"Now Cole... We put Match Tires on your car, you CAN take Roudy on the outside..."[/COLOR]

I was pretty sure you had enough over the top sarcasim to help realize you were just messing around, Although, for a second, I had a flash back of "does a frame really flex or not!"





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