Carnage! Check this S--T out!!!


43 replies to this topic
  • zipper600

Posted November 28, 2007 - 03:41 PM

#21

imagine this:
start riding,1st gear,2nd gear,clank,clank,DAMN,clank,3rd gear......4th gear....................brake....3rd gear..2nd gear..clank,clank,DAMN,DAMN,ok..now lets try diferent: 1st gear.....................3rd gear..4th gear..............better:banghead: eheheheeh

And people on the road think you dont even know how to ride a bike:ride:

  • martinfan30

Posted November 28, 2007 - 03:44 PM

#22

imagine this:
start riding,1st gear,2nd gear,clank,clank,DAMN,clank,3rd gear......4th gear....................brake....3rd gear..2nd gear..clank,clank,DAMN,DAMN,ok..now lets try diferent: 1st gear.....................3rd gear..4th gear..............better:banghead: eheheheeh

And people on the road think you dont even know how to ride a bike:ride:


tear that thing down and replce the bad parts! not a bad job.

  • zipper600

Posted November 28, 2007 - 03:54 PM

#23

im planing to..but only for a total rebuild..it still rides very strong.no oil burn,easy start..tear it apart requires a lot of time,work and money..start saving money to do it..maybe winter next year..for now im motarding it..aplying a KTM complet front on it..lot of work but worthy..

  • jclaus98

Posted November 28, 2007 - 05:08 PM

#24

crmc33, I'm glad you chimed in, as I was going to pm you, but I can ask here! I keep hearing this from people, yourself included, that is, "hard welding" the cam and rockers, what the hell does this mean? Obviously this does not mean welding the two together, but what do you mean? What does it entail and what advantages are to be had from such a process?

  • stepho

Posted November 28, 2007 - 08:03 PM

#25

we built our own pump out of billet using a seperate passage to allow a second hole so we can run a oil squirter doing this we also put a restrictor on the right side of the crank shaft to keep pressure in other places. Having no oil problems at all. We did however lowered the lift on our camshafts to bring the RPM range lower. That saved the cam and followers much more than anything. Cam used to be .480 int and .420 ex now we are at 407 and 377 and we are getting more torque a little less hp up top but way less cam problems. Also dont forget good oil Moble one or redline just a sug..

  • crmc33

Posted November 30, 2007 - 02:59 AM

#26

crmc33, I'm glad you chimed in, as I was going to pm you, but I can ask here! I keep hearing this from people, yourself included, that is, "hard welding" the cam and rockers, what the hell does this mean? Obviously this does not mean welding the two together, but what do you mean? What does it entail and what advantages are to be had from such a process?


The cam has its lobes welded up with a harder material such as stellite (same material as cutting tools are made) and the lobes are reground to a new profile such as HRC etc. The matching rocker cam follower pads can also be welded up then reground so that they are more durable. The standard follower pads are chromed plated. One bit of oil starvation and they quickly wear/overheat/pit/flake away and then all hell breaks loose btwn cam and followers !! :thumbsup:

HTH.


Stepho, interesting about the 0.480 cam. I tried the megacycle full race cam with the same spec and eventually went to a smaller lift 0.380 cam (HRC). I didnt like the large valve lift of the cam (and its obvious stress on the valve train)and according to the UK based cam and cylinder head tuners Ive spoken with, its wasted lift if youre using std valve sizes (which I am).

  • quicksilver

Posted November 30, 2007 - 06:40 AM

#27

You had indicated that stellite was of course non-magnetic and would be unaffected by the use of magnetic oil sweeping devices. How much stellite (if any) exists in stock systems?

Is this a brand name... Could this material be named differently in the States?

  • stepho

Posted November 30, 2007 - 10:18 AM

#28

crmc did your cams turn into rectangles just like ours did before we lowered the cam lift. Also you are correct with the head the stock valves are the best. Just put a 3 angle and the flow is still beter than a kibblewhite that is .020 larger.

  • rmhrc630

Posted November 30, 2007 - 05:31 PM

#29

crmc did your cams turn into rectangles just like ours did before we lowered the cam lift. Also you are correct with the head the stock valves are the best. Just put a 3 angle and the flow is still beter than a kibblewhite that is .020 larger.


stepho

I am interested in your comments re the 3 angle valve job. I run a HRC628 kitted motor and was wondering if I need to do this 3 angle valve job. Motor only has about 2000km on it and I run setrab which boosts oil capacity to 3 litres. Do I do this 3 angle job only on tear down or is it somethign to do while the motor is fresh?

Is it possible to run over the base engine mods you gurus suggest for the 600/628HRC kitted motors? Such as 3 angle valve jobs ect and what works and doesnt? I need a refresher!!!

So starting at say:

Head:

Valves:

Porting:

Oiling:

  • INYOxrl

Posted November 30, 2007 - 07:30 PM

#30

I keep hearing this from people, yourself included, that is, "hard welding" the cam and rockers, what the hell does this mean? Obviously this does not mean welding the two together, but what do you mean? What does it entail and what advantages are to be had from such a process?

I believe that "hard welding" is the same as "hard facing." The welder I work with uses this technique on cutting implements such as dozer blades and backhoe buckets to lengthen their service lives. Hard facing is a technique which involves stick (arc) welding with rods made of a particular material (stellite?). I do not know what these rods are made of, but it should be easy to determine based on the parent metal and application. Contact a reputable welder.

Good luck!

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • HeadTrauma

Posted November 30, 2007 - 07:32 PM

#31

You had indicated that stellite was of course non-magnetic and would be unaffected by the use of magnetic oil sweeping devices. How much stellite (if any) exists in stock systems?

Is this a brand name... Could this material be named differently in the States?


Stellite is Stellite here in the US and abroad. It is a cobalt-chromium alloy and the trademark name of Deloro Stellite. US companies like Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh have used it for wear and heat resistant exhaust valves for decades. I doubt that any Stellite is used in stock engines.

  • stepho

Posted November 30, 2007 - 07:32 PM

#32

well lets see, porting is just one of those things that with a little experience you learn it yourself. I guess I started by having access to a flow bench. I have probably done about 25 xrl heads and they get easy the more you do. It is very hard to explain how to port. I guess it is just being familliar with the heads you are working with. When I have to build these motors I usually try to build a group of about ten bottom ends. Then hone ten cyl's,match pistons, and fit rings. Finally I would do the cyl heads because the take the most time. Now our heads are made a little different. We machine heads so we can put seperate tubes into them so we get a more direct angle twards the valves. They will not fit on any bike with a back bone type frame. Once i have ported one head the second and third heads start to get a little better cfm wise and also I can complete them a lot faster. The 3 angle valve job is just like a basic valve job which means cutting seats and just making sure the valve seats perfectly. It can be done while fixing a leaky head gasket or something of that nature. Right now my bike has stock piston, Megacycle cam, and a good porting job. I am very new to doing this on my own bike but have been doing this to gators since 2001. I think I am always looking for a reason to pull my motor out of my bike. Having all the tools, machines, cutters, fixtures, hones, a lot of semi used parts, and experience, I think I will a pretty strong Frankenthumper. There are a lot of stock parts that we do not use like pistons and clutches so i put new stuff on if needed almost every oil change. Sounds crazy but i cant call work work its more like a toy store and I am just an elf.

  • zipper600

Posted December 01, 2007 - 02:34 AM

#33

well lets see, porting is just one of those things that with a little experience you learn it yourself. I guess I started by having access to a flow bench. I have probably done about 25 xrl heads and they get easy the more you do. It is very hard to explain how to port. I guess it is just being familliar with the heads you are working with. When I have to build these motors I usually try to build a group of about ten bottom ends. Then hone ten cyl's,match pistons, and fit rings. Finally I would do the cyl heads because the take the most time. Now our heads are made a little different. We machine heads so we can put seperate tubes into them so we get a more direct angle twards the valves. They will not fit on any bike with a back bone type frame. Once i have ported one head the second and third heads start to get a little better cfm wise and also I can complete them a lot faster. The 3 angle valve job is just like a basic valve job which means cutting seats and just making sure the valve seats perfectly. It can be done while fixing a leaky head gasket or something of that nature. Right now my bike has stock piston, Megacycle cam, and a good porting job. I am very new to doing this on my own bike but have been doing this to gators since 2001. I think I am always looking for a reason to pull my motor out of my bike. Having all the tools, machines, cutters, fixtures, hones, a lot of semi used parts, and experience, I think I will a pretty strong Frankenthumper. There are a lot of stock parts that we do not use like pistons and clutches so i put new stuff on if needed almost every oil change. Sounds crazy but i cant call work work its more like a toy store and I am just an elf.


seems you´re a lucky guy:thumbsup:

  • radbrad48

Posted December 01, 2007 - 10:14 AM

#34

This screen that was plugged, is it in the bottom of the down tube in front of the motor where the hose connects? If so, I guess all you do is pull the hose off and unscrew the piece that holds the screen.

  • zipper600

Posted December 01, 2007 - 10:36 AM

#35

This screen that was plugged, is it in the bottom of the down tube in front of the motor where the hose connects? If so, I guess all you do is pull the hose off and unscrew the piece that holds the screen.


yes.unscrew the oil tube and the filter..if its as dirty as mine you will have to insert a strong magnet to remove all the metal shaves from inside the frame down tube.

  • radbrad48

Posted December 01, 2007 - 11:07 AM

#36

Thanks. I always thought that was where it was. I hear people talking about cleaning the screen but wasn't quite sure. Mine shouldn't be to bad. I only have 1200 miles on it.

  • crmc33

Posted December 01, 2007 - 04:05 PM

#37

Stepho,

Yes, Ive stuck with standard valves mainly due to the fact that the smaller XBR/XL heads I use tend to crack btwn the spark plug hole and exhaust ports, so making them any bigger would be risky I think.

A friend has all the tooling to do the valve seat three angle cuts. Ive done one head myself and another by an expert.

The lumpy megacycle cam I have was very rectangular in profile - it was there most extreme grind but I thought it was worht a try as I was basically given it as part of a load of ex HRC speedway bike project parts.

Im just starting a XL600 twin carb head for my next project. Not sure what carbs to go for (its a road racer), but was thinking of twin 34mm flatslides off a RGV250 (with PowerJet blocked off) or maybe somthing more modern. Any ideas? I know you mentioned FCR39's but would this be a bit big?

The cheap option would be the RGV carbs or maybe a apir of VM34 or similar as I know the VM's inside out from years of 2T classic racing.

  • stepho

Posted December 01, 2007 - 08:56 PM

#38

the 39s worked awesome on our old bike. Made more hp than the fi verson. that was based off the 600r not the 650l. Used a wiseco 104, 12 to 1 comp,52 ftlbs of torque and 80hp on a superflow engine dyno. Niiicccceee

  • crmc33

Posted December 02, 2007 - 06:19 AM

#39

Im tempted.
The engine Id be fitting then too is a hybrid of XBR500 bottom end (closer ratio gbox than the XR or XRL), XL600 head with twin intake obviouslyand XRL barrel.

So would only be very like a 600R and would rev nice with the short stroke and lighter crank.

I used a HSR48 on my other XRL based motor and it didnt mind the big carb even tho lots of people say 'thats over-carbed'.

I take the 80HP would equate to about 72RWHP??

I'll be happy with 60! ;D

  • stepho

Posted December 02, 2007 - 09:26 AM

#40

Interesting enough we have been slowly going away from the big hp's on this bike. We need something that last on the street not for a couple laps. So we decide to drop the max rpm range from 8750 to 8300 and focus on torque because thats what helps us and gives the bike a happy feel, while saving valvetrain. Just been experimenting with cams and cam timing. Heres a sheet from our test bike, the bike now has 47 ftlb rear wheel torque and around 60 rear wheel hp on california pump gas. All day long.:thumbsup: Posted Image





Related Content

Forums
Photo

Which thumper motor for a street tracker? by woz


Dirt Bike   General Dirt Bike Forums   General Dirt Bike Discussion
  • * * * * -
  • Hot  29 replies
Forums
Photo

XR650L super moto wheels by greggkklee


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   XR600/650
  • Hot  28 replies
Forums
Photo
Washington

Cle Elum Sunday 5/29: Looking for dual sport tips by TigerTanker


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   Northwest
  • Hot  32 replies
Forums
Photo

DirttyPig 2005 Xr650l Prroject! by braapmebb1moretime


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   XR600/650
  • 22 replies
Reviews

Honda XR650L 2017 by Chris.GVS


Honda XR650L 2017
  • - - - - -
  • 0 reviews
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.