Ridgecrest BLM Spark arrestor ticket, but I have the stock spark arrestor.


69 replies to this topic
  • cleonard

Posted November 25, 2007 - 11:08 AM

#1

I was out at Cal city yesterday fighting the crowds. The BLM had a check point on the 20 trail just east of the 20/30 spilt. They were checking registrations and spark arrestors. I got a spark arrestor ticket. For further reference it is for $60.

Now here is the thing. My bike has a spark arrestor. It is a 1993 Honda XR600 with the stock pipe. The pipe is clearly stamped HONDA KRIZMAN SPARK ARRESTOR MODEL 701. They put the rod in and it went in. It's like they were testing for a screen type arrestor, but this unit is a Kirzman and has no screen. Krizman spark arrestors work like a Dyson vacuum. They spin the particles out of the exhaust stream. Since it was only for $60 I didn't really feel the need to argue with the officers. It was getting dark and one of our riding group had no headlight.

Can I fight this ticket and win? What do I need to show to a judge to convince them that the BLM officer wrote the ticket incorrectly. If I can fight it with a letter I will. If I have to drive a long way to fight it, fighting will not be cost effective.

  • bigredxr

Posted November 25, 2007 - 11:36 AM

#2

Do you know how the law on spark arrestors reads in your state? If states that u must have a screen type spark arrestor u may not have a leg to stand on. BTW I feel for ya that sounds a little nit picky to me!:thumbsup:

  • cleonard

Posted November 25, 2007 - 12:28 PM

#3

I was written for 43CFR8341(d) which states that your bike must meet your states regulations. The reference was California vehicle code 38366(a)

One thing CVC38366(a) is for OHV. My XR600 is street plated and I do not have a green sticker (OHV registration).

43CFR8341

(d) It is prohibited to operate an off-road vehicle in violation of
State laws and regulations relating to use, standards, registration,
operation, and inspection of off-road vehicles. To the extent that State
laws and regulations do not exist or are less stringent than the
regulations in this part, the regulations in this part are minimum
standards and are controlling.


CVC38366

(a) Notwithstanding Section 4442 of the Public Resources Code, and except for vehicles with mufflers as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 27150) of Chapter 5 of Division 12, no person shall use, operate, or allow to be used or operated, any off-highway motor vehicle, as defined in Section 38006, on any forest-covered land, brush-covered land, or grass-covered land unless the vehicle is equipped with a spark arrester maintained in effective working order.



  • bigredxr

Posted November 25, 2007 - 12:56 PM

#4

If I'm reading the second law correctly u most certainly need to fight the ticket about the arrestor. Especially since u have a legal working spark arrestor. Doesn't say anything about a screen type arrestor. I have to believe that ranger Rick was trained to look for one thing when looking for spark arrestor and wouldn't know another working style if he tripped over it. Unfortunatly you're the chosen one to take time off work and teach him through the legal system. Don't know about the OHV as I don't live in Cali, but here in Michigan we need an ORV sticker to ride off road. I'm figuring that is the equivelent to your OHV sticker. Please correct if wrong on that account. Good luck in your endevour and remember to take lots of suppoting documentation to support your case.

  • knuklehead

Posted November 25, 2007 - 01:16 PM

#5

Think I'd fight it just because it's WRONG.Even it cost me more than 65.00.Freaken Ranger Dick

  • absynth01

Posted November 25, 2007 - 01:18 PM

#6

That sucks!! I plead not guilty by mail one time for a BS ticket, and was surprised at the game wardens response. It was 5 MORE tickets all relating to riding an off-road vehicle in my PO box. I had argued with him at the spot of the ticket about it, and he remembered me thus resulting in more tickets. Needless to say it was a legal move on his part to get me to plead to one ticket anyway. The judge let me choose which ticket. 3 court dates and 65$ later I was pleased and loved the attitude the judge gave the officer!! My buddie who just mailed the fine in (60$), had no further trouble.
As for those that wonder why I didn't just fly, I was on private property and he called me to him resulting in the ticket. I could have easily gotten away with it. It was a long whoop section on an old railbed. Had I known his intent, the 650R and CR500R would have given his truck and himself a nice roost shower of railbed rocks.

  • hill5150

Posted November 25, 2007 - 01:48 PM

#7

Fight it:foul: .....I did 150 miles last weekend at Jawbone, great weekend....or send them 60 1 dollar checks:thumbsup: ..............It's legal tender no matter how they choose to slice it....:thumbsup:

  • BWB63

Posted November 25, 2007 - 01:48 PM

#8

That sucks!! I plead not guilty by mail one time for a BS ticket, and was surprised at the game wardens response. It was 5 MORE tickets all relating to riding an off-road vehicle in my PO box. I had argued with him at the spot of the ticket about it, and he remembered me thus resulting in more tickets. Needless to say it was a legal move on his part to get me to plead to one ticket anyway. The judge let me choose which ticket. 3 court dates and 65$ later I was pleased and loved the attitude the judge gave the officer!! My buddie who just mailed the fine in (60$), had no further trouble.
As for those that wonder why I didn't just fly, I was on private property and he called me to him resulting in the ticket. I could have easily gotten away with it. It was a long whoop section on an old railbed. Had I known his intent, the 650R and CR500R would have given his truck and himself a nice roost shower of railbed rocks.



I second the last emotion!!!! As long as I really feel there is nothing in the sky at the time.

As for the ticket, you were not on an off-road or off highway vehicle. My truck does not have a spark arrestor.

  • XR250rdr

Posted November 25, 2007 - 02:30 PM

#9

The public resources code also requires use of spark arrestors on any engine operated on any forest-covered land, brush-covered land, or grass-covered land except for trucks, truck tractors, buses, and passenger vehicles. See section 4442: http://www.leginfo.c...&file=4421-4446

Having only a plate doesn't change the spark arrestor requirement, but since you have one I would still fight it.

I second the last emotion!!!! As long as I really feel there is nothing in the sky at the time.

As for the ticket, you were not on an off-road or off highway vehicle. My truck does not have a spark arrestor.


Motorcycles are held separate from trucks, truck tractors, buses, and passenger vehicles. Those just have to be equipped with a muffler. He wasn't written up for CVC 38366 anyway.

  • cleonard

Posted November 25, 2007 - 02:38 PM

#10

The public resources code also requires use of spark arrestors on any engine operated on any forest-covered land, brush-covered land, or grass-covered land except for trucks, truck tractors, buses, and passenger vehicles. See section 4442: http://www.leginfo.c...&file=4421-4446

Having only a plate doesn't change the spark arrestor requirement, but since you have one I would still fight it.



Motorcycles are held separate from trucks, truck tractors, buses, and passenger vehicles. Those just have to be equipped with a muffler. He wasn't written up for CVC 38366 anyway.


Actually CVC 38366 was written on the ticket. Since my bike is not an OHV(no green sticker) it should have been written up for the Public Resources code 4442. Looks like I might get off on a technicality.

I also found a USFS document which states that my Honda Krizman Model 701 is USFS compliant. USFS compliance is what the state requires. It looks like I have two positives. First the wrong vehicle code section and second the "it is a certified spark arrestor" defense.

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  • quicksilver

Posted November 25, 2007 - 05:16 PM

#11

That sucks!! I plead not guilty by mail one time for a BS ticket, and was surprised at the game wardens response. It was 5 MORE tickets all relating to riding an off-road vehicle in my PO box.....


I have seen this time and again....The BLM guys can seriously crush the common citizen. I am EXTREMELY careful about dealing with them. I once saw a guy get a ticket for quail hunting violation (not picking up his empty shells) wherein he was near old shells on the ground! They were obviously old...Didn't matter. They were not his brand - Didn't matter. He carefully prepared his case and got crushed.....Big bucks out the window PLUS he almost got his hunting license removed (I knew the guy). How do you spell unfair?

The dynamic of utilizing a probe to determine if a spark arrestor is present was obviously determined to be the total and absolute proof of it's existence.

  • dezracerE

Posted November 25, 2007 - 05:55 PM

#12

I was out at Cal city yesterday fighting the crowds. The BLM had a check point on the 20 trail just east of the 20/30 spilt. They were checking registrations and spark arrestors. I got a spark arrestor ticket. For further reference it is for $60.

Now here is the thing. My bike has a spark arrestor. It is a 1993 Honda XR600 with the stock pipe. The pipe is clearly stamped HONDA KRIZMAN SPARK ARRESTOR MODEL 701. They put the rod in and it went in. It's like they were testing for a screen type arrestor, but this unit is a Kirzman and has no screen. Krizman spark arrestors work like a Dyson vacuum. They spin the particles out of the exhaust stream. Since it was only for $60 I didn't really feel the need to argue with the officers. It was getting dark and one of our riding group had no headlight.

Can I fight this ticket and win? What do I need to show to a judge to convince them that the BLM officer wrote the ticket incorrectly. If I can fight it with a letter I will. If I have to drive a long way to fight it, fighting will not be cost effective.


Cleonard- you got screwed.
That guy (ranger) sucks.
It never ceases to amaze me how we off-roaders get scrutinized soooo much. I never stop for them- just turn and go the other way if possible.
The guy was a moron who does not know the law.
You could fight it and win- but is it worth the time and energy?
I hate Cali more and more. They keep cramming us into smaller and smaller areas and then try to control us.:thumbsup:

  • XR250rdr

Posted November 26, 2007 - 12:06 AM

#13

Actually CVC 38366 was written on the ticket. Since my bike is not an OHV(no green sticker) it should have been written up for the Public Resources code 4442. Looks like I might get off on a technicality.

I also found a USFS document which states that my Honda Krizman Model 701 is USFS compliant. USFS compliance is what the state requires. It looks like I have two positives. First the wrong vehicle code section and second the "it is a certified spark arrestor" defense.


Ohh I thought he just wrote you just for 43CFR8341; I misunderstood. In that case I would bring that up, but 43CFR8341 may blanket cover pub resources 4442 too. Either way you have a spark arrestor that is USFS approved so neither should matter. Their test is flawed. I've been worried in the past that my XR would get popped by the same test when I have the stock pipe on it as well.

Technically a USFS stamp isnt required by law, I dont see it being easy to get out of a ticket if you didn't have one though.

  • BOLT Performance

Posted November 26, 2007 - 12:31 AM

#14

I'd call the Ridgecrest BLM and politely explain that a mistake was made and ask them to void the ticket. Tell them you'll be happy to stop by their office if need be the next time you are out riding prior to the court due date. They will be just as reasonable as you are.

Anything to avoid court is better.

  • philipstjohn

Posted November 26, 2007 - 05:24 AM

#15

[QUOTE I also found a USFS document which states that my Honda Krizman Model 701 is USFS compliant. USFS compliance is what the state requires. It looks like I have two positives. First the wrong vehicle code section and second the "it is a certified spark arrestor" defense.[/QUOTE]

Who is The "BLM" anyway?
Basically, with all the fires in CA, anything that could be a potential "spark to a fire" activity, will be monitered closely, ie checkpoints for spark arresters, etc. However, Ranger Joe Blow has no knowledge of the other various spark arresters out there that would not be detected with the probe check. As mentioned above, you may be able to get off on the ticket, and help other fellow riders out as well by bringing the information in to show the BLM about your specific spark arrester, and maybe dig up information on other spark arresters out there that are compliant, but would not pass the "probe test". If you can educate them, they may look closer at bikes without screen type arresters to determine if in fact a USFS compliant arrester is in place. I also thought if you have the original paperwork that came with the bike, there may be some information about the spark arrester installed from the factory, how it works, maintained, etc.
Good luck, and always fight against a violation of your rights, you were doing nothing wrong, not breaking any laws, yet were cited and expected to pay a fine due the the ignorance of this agency the BLM. :busted: :thumbsup: :busted:

  • absynth01

Posted November 26, 2007 - 06:19 AM

#16

I also read an article on my Big Gun EVOX XR650L. It does not have an arrestor screen in the pipe. I have seen the end cap add on with the screen. The article showed that Big Gun at the time did not have a certified spark arrestor licensed in their name. What they did was use White Bros tip arrestor and cert. I did read a few people that got snagged in arrestor checks and still failed for some reason. It turned out to be the USFS did not ok the marrying of the two units. I'm sure it was a cheaper(much) and quicker way of fixing the USFS problem. Just goes to show, and Ive been told "the law is the law". Even though the exhaust functioned flawlessly, the Feds wanted their cut too. If you got the time, I'd fight it. 60$ really ain't worth the time, but I'd love to cost them much more money. Just plead Not guilty, go to trial, watch their case fall apart, and see how much it cost the state to "learn" a lesson.
Go this route if you have a cut and dry case. Be sure your machines are all 100% legal (dot,fed,state). Not sure what bike you are using, but if it was converted don't get caught in a worse problem!!!!! Good luck:thumbsup:

  • RedRider_450

Posted November 26, 2007 - 06:31 AM

#17

I was out in cal city too, I cannot believe how many people were out there. I dont head into the desert, I dont really like the riding around there but for the last 3 or so years we camp next to the motocross track and ride there. I have never seen so many people around that area of the track. Its great fun but there was just too many yo-yo heads on the track.

  • BOLT Performance

Posted November 26, 2007 - 02:02 PM

#18

I also found a USFS document which states that my Honda Krizman Model 701 is USFS compliant. USFS compliance is what the state requires. It looks like I have two positives. First the wrong vehicle code section and second the "it is a certified spark arrestor" defense.


Who is The "BLM" anyway?
Basically, with all the fires in CA, anything that could be a potential "spark to a fire" activity, will be monitered closely, ie checkpoints for spark arresters, etc. However, Ranger Joe Blow has no knowledge of the other various spark arresters out there that would not be detected with the probe check. As mentioned above, you may be able to get off on the ticket, and help other fellow riders out as well by bringing the information in to show the BLM about your specific spark arrester, and maybe dig up information on other spark arresters out there that are compliant, but would not pass the "probe test". If you can educate them, they may look closer at bikes without screen type arresters to determine if in fact a USFS compliant arrester is in place. I also thought if you have the original paperwork that came with the bike, there may be some information about the spark arrester installed from the factory, how it works, maintained, etc.
Good luck, and always fight against a violation of your rights, you were doing nothing wrong, not breaking any laws, yet were cited and expected to pay a fine due the the ignorance of this agency the BLM. :busted: :busted: :ride:


You don't know who is the BLM (Bureau of Land Management for the United States) ? We are talking about a few guys in a remote area that's being FORCED to step up and deal with the 50,000 people that swoops in on them at Thanksgiving... during a time when the Greenies have sued them into action against OHVers. They simply made a mistake. If the guy that got the ticket just calls them with the documentation to prove the pipe is legal we all win. The local Rangers will know the facts and apply them fairly then.

Even Rangers for the US Government are real people too. Cut them a little slack. :thumbsup:

Another piece of advise... Don't like crowds, squids, Rangers on Overtime and stressed out ? Don't go riding on Thanksgiving... Stay home and be with family. Go riding the weekend after or before.

  • XR680RR

Posted November 26, 2007 - 03:44 PM

#19

You don't know who is the BLM (Bureau of Land Management for the United States) ? We are talking about a few guys in a remote area that's being FORCED to step up and deal with the 50,000 people that swoops in on them at Thanksgiving... during a time when the Greenies have sued them into action against OHVers. They simply made a mistake. If the guy that got the ticket just calls them with the documentation to prove the pipe is legal we all win. The local Rangers will know the facts and apply them fairly then. [COLOR="red"]Are you JOKING???? What are you smoking in that crack pipe?[/COLOR]

Even Rangers for the US Government are real people too. Cut them a little slack. :busted: [COLOR="Red"]So were the Nazi's! It's the attitude that make them not people too. The are into the hunt---> Not serving the people. More and more the police of this nation have the "how to control the People" 'Us against them attitude', Comes out big time even in 'COP's' No slack from me and I have not stopped or will I. Boston Tea parteeeeeeeeeeee![/COLOR]

Another piece of advise... Don't like crowds, squids, Rangers on Overtime and stressed out ? Don't go riding on Thanksgiving... Stay home and be with family. Go riding the weekend after or before. [COLOR="red"]Maybe if they joined the people instead of looking for more easy revenue, they wouldn't be so stressed out? Maybe help clean up instead of just looking to give a ticket? It was a joke when we had a clean up party at Glamis and we were getting harassed because the quad was on the street pulling the trailer with the trash. We needed a permit for the recylable stuff we had gathered!!! :thumbsup: I do not and will not ever agree with you:p [/COLOR]


It's we the people, not all for the goverment.

  • BWB63

Posted November 26, 2007 - 04:09 PM

#20

:busted: :ride: :busted: :thumbsup:
I second that emotion!:worthy:

I am sick and tired of fighting to have a good time. Pay $30 a year to park in the forest, pay outragous money to hunt in that forest, then they close down the forest and BLM during hunting season!!!:lol: It's ok to work 10 hours a day, six days a week, and be totaly out of touch with your family but, try to go to the lake a run the sea doo's???? You bet you will get a ticket! Hike to the top of San 'G'? Only if you're lucky enough to get a permit that weekend, stay on the trail, only have a few in your group and only camp were Ricky ranger thinks it ok to camp. Fishing???? don't get me started! Shooting? What are you some kind of gun wacko? You shouldn't even own a gun and it is against the law to shoot it West of the 62 freeway, in Riverside county. Can not leagly ride a motorcycle off road in Riverside county....not even on your own land. Check out the laws it is true.
Like I said, I second that emotion!





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