If you read more closely, you will find that I did not refer to JASO standards as obsolete, but rather the API SG certification. Which is indeed obsolete, and is the going standard for JASO certifiable fluids.
And all the logic in the world won't change the fact that most all of the listed JASO certified MA-MB products are indeed nothing more than API SG-SJ oils that fell somewhere in the JASO friction testing.
You can actually tell who paid for a new certificate and who didn't by looking at the label. Labels will either show the certificate logo (API and/or JASO), or it will say something like "meets", or "conforms to" a particular standard.
This is not true at all. In fact, unless you see the actual JASO certified label, there is no assurance at all that the product is certified.
The only way to know is either the label, or by reading the updated list of JASO certified MA-MB fluids, which is published on a regular basis.
As of Nov.1 this is the list of JASO certified MA-MB engine oils.http://www.jalos.or..../4T_EV_LIST.pdf
(Many will have a slightly different take on this thing when they see what oils are actually on the list. Oils their previous perception would not allow them to even consider)
Also, just where is it that JASO mandates that MA-MB fluids have any sort of prowess as a gear lube? Are you sure you are reading from JASO T 903:2006?
And GL-1 is not much to use as an indicator of the fluid being robust. Not at all. Also, oils designated as a gear lube by the API are reserved for 0w-10w multi-grades.
Let's see what API says about GL-1 rated fluids:
This designation denotes lubricants intended for manual transmissions operating under such mild conditions that straight petroleum or refined petroleum oil may be used satisfactorily. Oxidation and rust inhibitors, defoamers and pour depressants may be added to improve the characteristics of these lubricants. Frictional modifiers and extreme pressure additives shall not be used.
(ATF makes a wonderful fluid in the clutch, yet will do poorly in a flat tappet cam situation due to the lack of EP adds.)
I think many make the mistake of thinking there are vast differences between oils marketed to cars and those marketed to trucks, or to motorcycles.
Rotella T, for example is not a "commercial truck oil" as was stated. The correct term for Rotella is "heavy duty engine oil". And the only thing that differentiates this oil, with one marketed to the car niche, is a slight variation and addition of some of the additives.
Yes these robust oils are sold to the diesel truck crowd, but they use the very same additives as so called "car" oils do, just maybe in different add levels.
Btw, straight weight engine oils sold to cars are also considered HDEO's, just like Rotella or Delo.
Grayracer, There have been some things happen since the install of the CAFE standards dictating additive levels. Many of these things can be read about at SAE.
One is a study conducted that shows that oils with differing levels of ZDDP did not vary as much as once thought when it comes to the anti-wear properties. In fact, studies show that an oil with 1100ppm ZDDP performs on par with the same oil with only 600ppm ZDDP.
And ZDDP's main function is not as an anti-wear or extreme pressure additive, but rather it is used mainly because of it's anti oxidation/corrosion properties.
I'm very curious where you get your information about "motorcycle" oils being so much more shear stable than "auto" or "truck" oils?
That simply isn't true at all.
All of these oils use the very same base stocks as one another. Some use more polymers than others, and some use better bases than others. But there is nothing at all that would show that there is any difference in how motorcycle oils are mfgd, compared to auto or truck oils, to resist mechanical shear.
No, it's frequency of change that must be looked at when considering shear.
Mobil 1 15w-50 full synthetic will easily stay in grade during a 10,000 mile run in an auto, whereas the same oil will only last 3000-4000 miles in a modern dirt bike engine with a wet clutch. Oh, and there is no way on earth you can show us how Mobil Racing 4T 10w-40 or V-Twin 20w-50 are improved in the realm of shear resistance over their so called "Auto" offerings.
Again, I'm making the claim that most all MA-MB oils are nothing special. In fact most of them would not pass the current API standards. And the API standards have become increasingly harder to pass with each new designation.
These myths will never cease until folks decide to stop spreading misinformation. Thing is, the mfg's are in cahoots with the misinformation campaign, which makes it even harder to educate the generally wise public. Don't kid yourself and think they aren't.