2008 Yamaha 450 Frame


31 replies to this topic
  • JohnnyOfast

Posted November 12, 2007 - 07:28 PM

#1

Anybody know if Yamaha is going to have a frame exchange program? :thumbsup: :ride:

I've never been happy with the way my '07 handles, listening to all the people compair their '08 to other bikes it sounds like it handles way better. Seriously, I love my '07 in so many ways but hate the front end push. If I spent $500 on clamps I'm a 1/4 of the way to the new frame. To get into an '08 I'd probably loose about $1500 or more and it needs a pipe at the least anyways.

So what's a frame go for? about $2000? maybe we could get a quantity discount and get them down to about $1200. But you would probably have to get the lower triple clamp also??

Also what do you guys' think of Kawasaki's attempt to feed frame flex into the chasis by using spacers on the motor mounts. MXA said it actually made a difference, couldn't the same logic be applied to the YZF mtor mounts to help feed in some frame flex and aid cornering? I'm looking into some longer bolts and spacers now, not sure what Fastenall is going to have but it seems like it would be worth a shot.

  • Edge316

Posted November 12, 2007 - 08:45 PM

#2

Ive actually had the same thoughts in regards to changing the frame and what kawi did to there frame.Im not sure if doing what kawi did would work,but Ive checked on the price of a frame and the cheapest I found online was around 1400.00,but that was for an 07.I could not find any pricing on the 08 yet,but I would think the price would be close.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 13, 2007 - 06:51 AM

#3

And let's suppose that you change the frame and it handles the same way? How happy will you be about that?

AFIK, the frame changes are subtle and non-geometrical. The handling improvement appears to be the result of a trail change equivalent to a 24mm clamp set on an '07, and was done by moving the axle back in the fork lugs 1mm.

  • JohnnyOfast

Posted November 13, 2007 - 07:20 AM

#4

And let's suppose that you change the frame and it handles the same way? How happy will you be about that?


Wouldn't be happy at all. But if you had an '08 frame and clamps there would be nothing else to it and it would handle like an '08. Everyone who has an '08 from what I've read say they handle great. I guess I need to cop a ride on one to know for sure.

AFIK, the frame changes are subtle and non-geometrical. The handling improvement appears to be the result of a trail change equivalent to a 24mm clamp set on an '07, and was done by moving the axle back in the fork lugs 1mm.


I was under the impression the handling improvement was a result of less rigidity in the frame and also the lower triple clamp. I thought the geometry itself was unchanged. I never would have thought frame rigidity had anything to do with cornering but Honda has been flexing there frames more and more from the git-go for the same reason. ~ correct me if I'm wrong.

So your saying they changed the trail in the clamps, not the frame and that is what is responsible for the improved handling in '08?? I'm sure Langston could have any off-set he wanted any time yet he didn't like the bike till he had an '08. I'm also relying heavily on the one guy who had an '06 and got the '08 and is raving about the handling improvement. (don't remember who) :thumbsup:

  • Climber

Posted November 13, 2007 - 07:37 AM

#5

FWIW, I put 24mm offset clamps on my 06 and it will turn as well as the 08 honda. This is a consensus of an 08 honda owner and me. He rides at "front pack" vet A and I'm mid pack vet a.

Otherwise he does not like my bike that much.

  • yz426em

Posted November 13, 2007 - 07:44 AM

#6

Also a new 2008 frame cost is about $1160, so you wouldn't have to talk anyone down if your willing to spend $1200.

  • Unibomber

Posted November 13, 2007 - 07:54 AM

#7

Wow, I think changing out your frame would be a huge waste of your time and money. Remember, people getting '08s are happy new owners of a NEW bike. So usually they are the best everything bike since sliced bread. I dont see enough actual changes between '07 and '08 to make a difference. :ride:

All you can really do is work on the suspension, clamp, bar setup. There is no silver bullet. And if you are considering getting rid of the '07. Try a different color bike, sometimes thats the trick. :thumbsup:

  • JohnnyOfast

Posted November 13, 2007 - 08:10 AM

#8

I've also considered drilling holes in my frame to obtain the desired amount of flex (j/k). :ride:

I wish I could take a ride on an '08 and an '07 with 24mm clamps then I would be able to make an informed opinion. Unfortunatly I don't know anybody that has either at the moment. Yes $1200 is a lot to spend but so is $600 for a set of triple clamps. I'm probably in lah-lah land thinking the frame is a magic solution.

Here's something else I've wondered, is it possible heavier riders get along with the 06/07 frame better cause their added girth puts some flex into the frame where a fly weight like me can't cause it to flex (I weigh 165 or so)? :thumbsup:

My crystal ball is seeing a set of 24mm offset clamps in the future. (yes, I've read all the old post's and they are very informative.) Think I'll try and get some spacers and longer bolts for the motor monts and see what that does also.

  • tw557

Posted November 13, 2007 - 09:09 AM

#9

I remember 1-1/2 years ago the 06 was IT. I seriously bet in a year there will be complaints how the 08 sucks. I just hate all this night and day difference. I say night and day is an 03 to a 08. Also, I have read that the 06 and 07 have about 8 more pounds on the rear tire then other bikes and meant to be steered with the rear somewhat. This is what bugs me everytime someone mentions Langston said the bike steers better now. I wonder which end is better for him. From about the point his front tire twitches into the turn he is one the gas HARD, Just making a few corrections with the front tire here and there. Its very hard to believe he was not racing on a bike that is at least a year ahead of the public. I am sure at my average level I will never notice frame flex. I guess I need to ride a honda someday because I just don't notice this turning problem of the 06. :thumbsup: I have the rekluse eaxle and have tried from 23mm to 27mm on my test oval which is rutted turns. I can hit these pretty hard and consistent. Yeah I feel a difference but not so night and day. I like 23 on the mid to exit to seem to let me correct mid turn better, but the 27 turns in better and quicker but seem to ride out the top of the rut at exit. But 25mm is pretty darn good with a GOOD tire with Proper sag setup. Next thing I plan to try is lower the back to 105 sag the move forks up 10mm. This will lower the whole bike, not just the radiators. Oh well,Sorry for the rant!!

  • grayracer513

Posted November 13, 2007 - 09:23 AM

#10

Wouldn't be happy at all. But if you had an '08 frame and clamps there would be nothing else to it and it would handle like an '08.

That's incorrect. The clamps are the same offset according to the information I have, and the frame geometry is unchanged. All you would have is your same motorcycle with a very small amount more flex in the steering head.

I was under the impression the handling improvement was a result of less rigidity in the frame and also the lower triple clamp. I thought the geometry itself was unchanged. I never would have thought frame rigidity had anything to do with cornering but Honda has been flexing there frames more and more from the git-go for the same reason. ~ correct me if I'm wrong.

That's also incorrect in my opinion. The frames were made less rigid because they were stronger than they needed to be, and that allowed them to be strategically lightened without giving up adequate strength or suspension control.

A frame that's too rigid shows up any and all of the shortcomings of the suspension's ability to absorb small (or large) shocks, and exaggerates an unbalanced engine. It makes the bike feel harsh and uncomfortable, much as running 50 psi in the tires would.

But frame flex has to be very carefully controlled to be of any benefit to handling of any sort. The function of the frame, besides keeping all of the components together in one cohesive group, is to keep both wheels in precisely their correct positions, and operating in their assigned planes. There can be no benefit to allowing them to twist, turn, point off line, or wander elsewhere. The one and only circumstance under which flex can be useful is when the chassis is chucked sideways, and then bites, or runs up against something that stops the slide suddenly. Since there is nothing in the suspension that provides for absorbing the energy of such a change in lateral chassis load, it can be useful if the chassis can flex a small amount in a controlled manner, BUT, you can only allow a little before the wheels start steering themselves. If you've ever ridden some of the early Japanese road rockets at speed in a wavy corner, you know what that can be like. Any improvement to handling in an MX bike from adding in flex will be very, very subtle, and totally unnoticeable to most riders.

So your saying they changed the trail in the clamps, not the frame and that is what is responsible for the improved handling in '08?? I'm sure Langston could have any off-set he wanted any time yet he didn't like the bike till he had an '08.

No. First, a frame cannot change trail, at least not directly. If you change the head angle, which is done in the frame, the trail will change slightly if all the other components stay the same, but that's it, and the head angle of the assembled bike is only 0.1 degree different than the '07. The trail was changed at the axle lug in the fork by moving the axle back 1mm. Honda has done this a couple of times. The factory clamps on '08's are still the same 25mm offset, but the trail comes out the same as it would on your '07 if you changed your clamps to 24 mm, or used a set of '08 forks in your clamps.

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  • adamdf

Posted November 13, 2007 - 10:51 AM

#11

I say this debate about cornering issues and trying to fix this or that has been discussed way enough. If i owned an 07 YZ450 and still wasn't happy with the cornering, i would simply sell it and not even debate the 08 (unless i could test rirde one) and just try another brand. As someone said above, sometimes that is just the trick.

  • grunkthump

Posted November 13, 2007 - 11:44 AM

#12

OR used an eaxle!!.....correct??

  • duzz10

Posted November 13, 2007 - 03:08 PM

#13

Applied Triple Clamps are $329.00! Doug Dubach works with Applied in there R&D. They come up with the 24mm. Works for me.

  • adamdf

Posted November 13, 2007 - 05:41 PM

#14

I'm starting to think we should name this forum the "offset forum" because this topic seems to be discussed way too much. I am not saying we have not had some constructive discussions but i do think that all the information on this topic can be found by using the "search" feature. In defense of the person who created this thread, it is kind of unique in the sense that he is purchasing an 08 frame, and the only response i can give to that is that it simply does not sound like it is worth the stress. The easy thing to do is either to try different clamps (use the search feature and you can read for days on which one is best) or sell the bike and as i stated earlier, try something else. I love yamahas, i own one, but i won't say you should stick to a brand if its not working out for you, if another brand exceeds in the area that you put importance on most, then chances are you should try that brand.

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted November 14, 2007 - 02:07 PM

#15

You are arguing semantics and missing the point of his statements. Langston, which we all know can be discounted since he is a spokesperson for yamaha now, said he liked the 08 much better, and like he said, could have any offset, trail, whatever he wanted on that factory bike of his. He claimed it was the new frame which allowed the better turning.
I have an 08 and think it turns well. I never rode an 06-07 however. The thing I like most about the 08 is the power delivery.

  • vpmx

Posted November 14, 2007 - 04:06 PM

#16

FWIW, I put 24mm offset clamps on my 06 and it will turn as well as the 08 honda. This is a consensus of an 08 honda owner and me. He rides at "front pack" vet A and I'm mid pack vet a.

Otherwise he does not like my bike that much.


Honestly it is not even close. The Honda turns so much better that it is in another league. I spent a lot of time and money on my Yamaha (24mm clamps, fork revalving, extensive handlebar height changes, seat height, sag, etc...) and did get it turning well. One ride on the Honda though, and I was floored.

Otherwise, unlike your friend, I did like the Yamaha very much.

Yamaha needs to make further changes in 2009 to get it working near the competition for tight turns on a motocross track. I am not entirely convinced that is their pure focus or target market. I really think they designed the bike to me more multi-purpose or more forgiving for the average rider.

  • AnotherRedHead

Posted November 15, 2007 - 08:33 AM

#17

I can rail inside ruts on my 08 yami, way better than my 06 honda with 22mm clamps, works susp, and a scotts dampner. It turned awesome dont get me wrong, but its way more top heavy than the yami, which would often cause me to get high in the turn, where as the yami, will drop in almost too easy sometimes. I think thats most ppls problem with yamaha, saying it pushes. Mine hooks well in the right terrain, with the right technique. Its all about where your ass is on the seat, your outer foot is weighting the peg, and you gotta get the precise moment right to drop into that rut and be on the gas. I watch ppl all the time fall in turns from not committing to them. There is a point on any bike where the front will wash or the back will slide, its your job as the rider to manipulate that motorcycle through obstacles while keeping it within its limits. Its not like works bikes are THAT much different from ours, its the riders, finding the right lines, knowing when to get on and off the throttle, and having the balls to pin that 450 in 4th while railing a 2inch tall berm in a slippery corner. The risk vs. reward is just not there for most of us.

I agree, switch brands. Im not brand loyal at all, and I can tell you, they all ride well, they are all awesome bikes. Differences are subtle, yet can be the deciding factor between you liking and disliking the way that bike handles. There is no magic A kit susp or clamp or dampner or weight bias that will make your bike stick like glue everywhere. Sometimes the track is just slippery!

  • Climber

Posted November 15, 2007 - 09:14 AM

#18

Honestly it is not even close. The Honda turns so much better that it is in another league. I spent a lot of time and money on my Yamaha (24mm clamps, fork revalving, extensive handlebar height changes, seat height, sag, etc...) and did get it turning well. One ride on the Honda though, and I was floored.

Otherwise, unlike your friend, I did like the Yamaha very much.

Yamaha needs to make further changes in 2009 to get it working near the competition for tight turns on a motocross track. I am not entirely convinced that is their pure focus or target market. I really think they designed the bike to me more multi-purpose or more forgiving for the average rider.


He checked his sag, his 08 crf450, last night and found it off by almost 20mm (to low). I think it probably will turn better than mine now that it is set up given that it turned the same as mine when it was a lowrider in the rear.

I'm waithing for a good deal on a used crf450r this winter.

  • matts06yzf

Posted November 15, 2007 - 01:56 PM

#19

I say this debate about cornering issues and trying to fix this or that has been discussed way enough. If i owned an 07 YZ450 and still wasn't happy with the cornering, i would simply sell it and not even debate the 08 (unless i could test rirde one) and just try another brand. As someone said above, sometimes that is just the trick.


I Think you want to go red :thumbsup: :ride: I have spent some time on the 08 crf and ummm I wouldnt trade mine for it for nothing. Remeber my best friend owns a Honda dealership I see the horror. Get ya some valves stainless ones along with it if u do go red. My bike is so much smoother than 08 Honda its sick. 250f I would go red I do like that however, valves still suck but i can get all that bs done free

  • nickeenoo

Posted November 16, 2007 - 05:55 PM

#20

Swap the frame? Seriously? Why don't you just go to the dealer, give him your 07 on trade, lose about $1500 on the deal and walk out with a brand new 08? You're out about the same money and have a brand new bike, not a rigged 07 with an 08 frame. It's a no brainer to me.





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