3 days in sand, now I need a full rebuild


117 replies to this topic
  • albertaguy

Posted November 08, 2007 - 10:25 AM

#41

Just a thought, anyone know if the cr500 engine fits in the yzf like the crf's. Like the Service Honda bikes. Older family members used to ride in the dunes with the 1986 CR500's. They say they were bullit proof in the sand. They would ride the whole weekend on the same air filter and change the oil once a year. How crazy is that (not recommended). Mind you he also said they worn running shoes, jean cutoff shorts, no T-shirt, and a helmet (at least he was smart enough to wear the helmet. I had two different 86 cr500's, suspension, breaking, and handling were terrible but I don't think anyone has made a motor with as much horsepower before or after.

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 08, 2007 - 10:53 AM

#42

Just a thought, anyone know if the cr500 engine fits in the yzf like the crf's. Like the Service Honda bikes. Older family members used to ride in the dunes with the 1986 CR500's. They say they were bullit proof in the sand. They would ride the whole weekend on the same air filter and change the oil once a year. How crazy is that (not recommended). Mind you he also said they worn running shoes, jean cutoff shorts, no T-shirt, and a helmet (at least he was smart enough to wear the helmet. I had two different 86 cr500's, suspension, breaking, and handling were terrible but I don't think anyone has made a motor with as much horsepower before or after.


I have fixed two Service Honda CR500AF. Both had the engine mounting bolts wallowed out bad and cracks in the frame around the engine cradle and shock mount. One of them I had to weld up cracks on the frame twice in different locations. Both owners got rid of the bikes.

Putting a CR500 engine in anything other than a CR500 frame is a bad thing.

  • Ga426owner

Posted November 08, 2007 - 12:30 PM

#43

Putting a CR500 engine in anything other than a CR500 frame is a bad thing.


I heard Jeff Ward said something similar about Service Honda 500's........as well as he said that they handle very strange in anything other than a CR500 frame

  • todds924

Posted November 08, 2007 - 06:02 PM

#44

Apparently it's very easy to do. I just got off the phone with the dealer and he has taken it all apart and said it definitely came in through the breather hose and a lot of it. It is everywhere. Need new cylinder, piston, rings, crank, etc etc ... He verified that the carb and air filter set up looked very clean in deed. I took it in there because a friend wanted to buy it off me so I said I would have the valve clearance checked by a pro just so we both felt good about the deal. In sand dunes you crest over razor backs all the time where the entire base of the engine plows through the sand, very easy for the breather hose to be completely submerged. I asked about that when I bought the bike and they said it only blows not sucks. Well now it really sucks. No wonder evryone else I saw in the dunes was on a crf. A $5 jimmy rigged filter on the end after rerouting it higher or in the air box would have saved me $3000.:worthy:


$3000.00? I would find another dealer.....For sure!

  • albertaguy

Posted November 09, 2007 - 05:35 PM

#45

Yamaha doesn't sell complete motors, just the parts. I get the feeling that if you priced out all the oem parts from Yamaha to build a motor from scratch it would be about the price of a new bike. I'm being told the parts alone are going to top $2500.

  • todds924

Posted November 09, 2007 - 08:12 PM

#46

Yamaha doesn't sell complete motors, just the parts. I get the feeling that if you priced out all the oem parts from Yamaha to build a motor from scratch it would be about the price of a new bike. I'm being told the parts alone are going to top $2500.


I'm going to call BS on that one. I will run a parts list tomorrow and post what i come up with.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 09, 2007 - 09:56 PM

#47

These are U.S. prices, but assuming you needed both cams, 5 valves, lifters, guides, the crank, cylinder, piston, 8 major engine bearings, the oil pump, and the usual associated parts (and you might not really need all that), retail for the parts would be about $2200, with discounts available at various sources of up to 35%.

Then, of course, there's labor, and machine work on the head. What's the going shop flat rate on a major overhaul like that?

  • albertaguy

Posted November 10, 2007 - 07:33 AM

#48

These are U.S. prices, but assuming you needed both cams, 5 valves, lifters, guides, the crank, cylinder, piston, 8 major engine bearings, the oil pump, and the usual associated parts (and you might not really need all that), retail for the parts would be about $2200, with discounts available at various sources of up to 35%.

Then, of course, there's labor, and machine work on the head. What's the going shop flat rate on a major overhaul like that?


Their shop rate is $85/ hour, I am searching out alternative places for the parts. I am hesitant to use "a guy" who used to work at a shop as my friend did that this summer to save some bucks and ended up with a hole in his engine case after two rides from a piece of a broken part that got missed. I definitely want it done right the first time. I didn't buy the bike from these guys because they wouldn't come down at all off sticker price. A shop 2.5 hour away was $650 less. I didn't feel like driving that far just to get the valves checked. Now these guys are a few hours into it plus all the time to look up the parts etc. I know they're going to nail me with a big bill if I tell them just to box it all up. I've been thinking off sending it off to a pro shop or something, none around me here (Alberta Canada) but I'm sure there's plenty in the US, for sure in California. I hate to spend that kind of money to just end up with all stock stuff. You would think for that I should even be able to get into a big bore kit with aftrermarket head? Any suggestions?

  • todds924

Posted November 10, 2007 - 05:43 PM

#49

These are U.S. prices, but assuming you needed both cams, 5 valves, lifters, guides, the crank, cylinder, piston, 8 major engine bearings, the oil pump, and the usual associated parts (and you might not really need all that), retail for the parts would be about $2200, with discounts available at various sources of up to 35%.

Then, of course, there's labor, and machine work on the head. What's the going shop flat rate on a major overhaul like that?


400.00 dollars on the labor for that Gray. Like you said, it would be determinate on exactly what parts were needed. I didn't have a chance to look it up today. I knew you'd beat me to it anyway! your good like that.

  • el cubano

Posted November 11, 2007 - 08:27 AM

#50

what exacly is the brither hose and hwo do i fix the potential problem

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • el cubano

Posted November 11, 2007 - 08:34 AM

#51

[i found lots of sand in my carb whatr could have cause that problem ?
my air filter is always clean .i dont know what hapend

  • WB450

Posted November 11, 2007 - 09:15 AM

#52

what exacly is the brither hose and hwo do i fix the potential problem




http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=563399

  • rideawn

Posted November 11, 2007 - 09:19 AM

#53

If sand entered the top through the breather tube would you expect to find some sand then in the oil during an oil change?

I've taken my '07 on three separate weekend trips to the dunes. Can't remember if I've ever paused at the top lip of a dune and stopped then restarted, but sure have crested many dunes where the case knocked off plenty of sand from the lip and then there are the drops of the bike, almost always on the left side :thumbsup: from trying to make to tight of a left hand turn just before cresting a dune. I always change my oil before and after going because indeed you run hard and fast in the dunes :ride:

Never have seen any sand in my oil, and I even always get a little oil between my fingers to feel if there is anything foreign of significance. Just trying to determine if I should check the top early or wait for the next needed valve check?

  • albertaguy

Posted November 13, 2007 - 08:53 AM

#54

There was sand in the oil and in the filter obviously but I never did run it between my fingers until I discovered the problem. Just bought a brand new engine off ebay from a guy who is turning a new 07 into a hill climber. Got the entire engine for less than the parts were going to cost me. Will try selling my worn engine on ebay for cases, tranny, etc to recover some of the loss. Will try to take and post pics of the damage this week.

  • WB450

Posted November 13, 2007 - 09:23 AM

#55

There was sand in the oil and in the filter obviously but I never did run it between my fingers until I discovered the problem. Just bought a brand new engine off ebay from a guy who is turning a new 07 into a hill climber. Got the entire engine for less than the parts were going to cost me. Will try selling my worn engine on ebay for cases, tranny, etc to recover some of the loss. Will try to take and post pics of the damage this week.


What did you pay, if you don't mind?

  • albertaguy

Posted November 13, 2007 - 10:34 AM

#56

What did you pay, if you don't mind?


$2500 before shipping but I have someone picking it up who lives close. Been asking around and I might be able to get $600 or $700 out of my old motor for the tranny and case and bearings etc or for someone to rebuild. That would mitigate my loss for sure as the final rebuild quote including a new clutch and labour topped $3800 if you can believe it.

  • WB450

Posted November 13, 2007 - 11:03 AM

#57

$2500 before shipping but I have someone picking it up who lives close. Been asking around and I might be able to get $600 or $700 out of my old motor for the tranny and case and bearings etc or for someone to rebuild. That would mitigate my loss for sure as the final rebuild quote including a new clutch and labour topped $3800 if you can believe it.


Damn! it was this thread that encouraged me to re rout my breather, sorry you had to take the hit, good luck with the new bullet.

  • albertaguy

Posted November 13, 2007 - 11:50 AM

#58

Damn! it was this thread that encouraged me to re rout my breather, sorry you had to take the hit, good luck with the new bullet.


I see you're from Idaho. St. Anthony is the only sand I play in. I am rerouting the hose into the air box and just yesterday picked up a couple of different pcv filters to try out. hard to believe a $3 filter from an auto parts store could have saved me all this money. I may end up just taping a piece of outerwears prefilter material over the end though as I wouldn't have to clean it like a pcv filter. That outerwear material is amazing. They work especially good on the yammy because you can get both hands in there and there is that big plastic ring that the prefilter slides right over, sooooo much easier than using them on the crf's.

  • WB450

Posted November 13, 2007 - 01:20 PM

#59

I see you're from Idaho. St. Anthony is the only sand I play in. I am rerouting the hose into the air box and just yesterday picked up a couple of different pcv filters to try out. hard to believe a $3 filter from an auto parts store could have saved me all this money. I may end up just taping a piece of outerwears prefilter material over the end though as I wouldn't have to clean it like a pcv filter. That outerwear material is amazing. They work especially good on the yammy because you can get both hands in there and there is that big plastic ring that the prefilter slides right over, sooooo much easier than using them on the crf's.



I've never rode a bike at St A's, I used to ride a Banshee:banghead:, but I love riding there, three day weekends are :thumbsup: nuts!

  • grayracer513

Posted November 13, 2007 - 02:01 PM

#60

I've never rode a bike at St A's, I used to ride a Banshee:banghead:, but I love riding there, three day weekends are :thumbsup: nuts!

Banshee story (as the moderator temporarily hijacks the thread from a hijacker :ride: ) Out at the Sand Dam at Superstition one day, there was a guy on a Banshee who was entertaining himself by waiting until someone took off up the hill and then running past him from behind. I was on my old CR500 with a 120-18 knob on it, and after I watched this for a while, and the guy's ego was properly inflated, I took off after him on one of his ambush runs. As I passed him, I looked over at him there with his eyes bugged out and grabbed 4th gear. :busted:

Posted Image

(we now return you to the original discussion): A variation on the reroute is to mount the T fitting directly above the cam cover port, and then run the original stock breather down the front just as it is. Then run the new section back and into the airbox with an added filter as in the pictures here. That splits the breather exhaust into two directions, and the strength of any vacuum pulse is cut in half as well. If and when the lower tube would try to lift anything heavy, air will rush in through the top section instead, being the path of less resistance.





Related Content

 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.