3 days in sand, now I need a full rebuild


117 replies to this topic
  • albertaguy

Posted November 07, 2007 - 11:39 AM

#1

Just wanted to see if other yzf 450 guys have had sand issues. Specifically I wonder if sand can get sucked up the engine breather hose. I road sand this year for 3 days. Changed air filter 2-3 times a day with a good grease beed around the rim plus outer wear prefilter over all that. Never saw a grain of sand in the airway leading to the carb or in the carb itself. Took bike in this week to have valve clearance checked and they tell me I need a whole new engine because it's full of sand and everythings been blasted. Then they start lecturing me about air filters etc. I maintain my bike great, oil changes out the ying yang and air filter is never dirty and carb is clean. Is it possible to suck up a gulp of sand through the breather hose? That's the only thing I can think of. If so nice design flaw Yamaha. My bikes probably got 30 hours on it and Yamaha doesn't even sell complete motors. Over 3000 for a rebuild.

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 07, 2007 - 12:55 PM

#2

Did you have a reason for taking it to the Yamaha dealer for anything other than a valve inspection?

The YZ's and WR's can suck water up the breather hose, I had it happen on my '03 WR450, but I think it would be pretty difficult to suck sand up it under normal riding.

If it did suck sand into the breather (not likely) the likely damage it could do is score up the inside of the oil pump and MAYBE some scratches on the cam lobes and valve buckets. Any sand in the oil should have been captured in the oil filter.

  • Ga426owner

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:25 PM

#3

yes.... water can be sucked up into the breather so sand should be easier -

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:28 PM

#4

yes.... water can be sucked up into the breather so sand should be easier -


Yeah............. your right, but only if you completely submerge the end of the breather hose in the dirt.

I'd like to see that trick.

  • WB450

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:36 PM

#5

Guys who ride sand always dig the rear wheel in to act as a kick stand, which will in the right situation drop the breather hose right on the sand. Do a search on relocating it into the air box, that's what I did. I'll post some pics of my set up tonight.

  • albertaguy

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:39 PM

#6

Yeah............. your right, but only if you completely submerge the end of the breather hose in the dirt.

I'd like to see that trick.


Apparently it's very easy to do. I just got off the phone with the dealer and he has taken it all apart and said it definitely came in through the breather hose and a lot of it. It is everywhere. Need new cylinder, piston, rings, crank, etc etc ... He verified that the carb and air filter set up looked very clean in deed. I took it in there because a friend wanted to buy it off me so I said I would have the valve clearance checked by a pro just so we both felt good about the deal. In sand dunes you crest over razor backs all the time where the entire base of the engine plows through the sand, very easy for the breather hose to be completely submerged. I asked about that when I bought the bike and they said it only blows not sucks. Well now it really sucks. No wonder evryone else I saw in the dunes was on a crf. A $5 jimmy rigged filter on the end after rerouting it higher or in the air box would have saved me $3000.:worthy:

  • WB450

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:49 PM

#7

Not a Yamaha, but a good example


http://www.thumperta...t=Dune pictures

  • grayracer513

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:51 PM

#8

Yeah............. your right, but only if you completely submerge the end of the breather hose in the dirt.

I'd like to see that trick.

Ever stop centered across the top of a dune and shut the engine off?

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 07, 2007 - 01:52 PM

#9

Apparently it's very easy to do. I just got off the phone with the dealer and he has taken it all apart and said it definitely came in through the breather hose and a lot of it. It is everywhere. Need new cylinder, piston, rings, crank, etc etc ... He verified that the carb and air filter set up looked very clean in deed. I took it in there because a friend wanted to buy it off me so I said I would have the valve clearance checked by a pro just so we both felt good about the deal. In sand dunes you crest over razor backs all the time where the entire base of the engine plows through the sand, very easy for the breather hose to be completely submerged. I asked about that when I bought the bike and they said it only blows not sucks. Well now it really sucks. No wonder evryone else I saw in the dunes was on a crf. A $5 jimmy rigged filter on the end after rerouting it higher or in the air box would have saved me $3000.:worthy:


I keep telling myself how much I hate riding in the sand, now I know why.

  • Wiz636

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:03 PM

#10

Yeah............. your right, but only if you completely submerge the end of the breather hose in the dirt.

I'd like to see that trick.


It WILL suck dirt up the breather hose without the breather being submerged. I don't know if it is from tip overs when the engine is still running or just from dust/dirt being kicked up by the front tire or your foot, but the fact remains that EVERYBODY with an '06 and newer YZ450 should take steps to prevent this as it will dump the grit right into to top of your head. Either reroute the tube to your airbox or intall a filter on the end of the tube.

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  • albertaguy

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:18 PM

#11

It WILL suck dirt up the breather hose without the breather being submerged. I don't know if it is from tip overs when the engine is still running or just from dust/dirt being kicked up by the front tire or your foot, but the fact remains that EVERYBODY with an '06 and newer YZ450 should take steps to prevent this as it will dump the grit right into to top of your head. Either reroute the tube to your airbox or intall a filter on the end of the tube.


I am a firm believer now but does anyone besides myself think it should be Yamaha addressing this issue, my crf never had a vacume hose picking up trash as I drive along hanging from the bottom of the motor.

  • KAS

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:53 PM

#12

How is dirt "sucked" in a "breather" tube? Shouldn't there be as much air going out as there is going in the tube?

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:54 PM

#13

It WILL suck dirt up the breather hose without the breather being submerged. I don't know if it is from tip overs when the engine is still running or just from dust/dirt being kicked up by the front tire or your foot, but the fact remains that EVERYBODY with an '06 and newer YZ450 should take steps to prevent this as it will dump the grit right into to top of your head. Either reroute the tube to your airbox or intall a filter on the end of the tube.


I rerouted the breather on my '03 WR after the first water ingesting incident and rerouted the breather on my '06 YZ before I ever rode it. I never have 'high-centered' either bike on a sand dune and I've never been brought a bike with a crancase full of sand to fix either.

I guess you don't learn from what you don't experience.

  • 2grimjim

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:57 PM

#14

I am a firm believer now but does anyone besides myself think it should be Yamaha addressing this issue, my crf never had a vacume hose picking up trash as I drive along hanging from the bottom of the motor.


The allready have, but only with the WR's

  • clutchless

Posted November 07, 2007 - 03:10 PM

#15

Ever stop centered across the top of a dune and shut the engine off?



yeah?? very strange? i race 07 yz 450 f in the desert and have to race up deep sand hill climbs and razor backs and all types of soft fluffy sand. dump the bike all the time, burry it, pack the engine with sand. never had that problem, not saying it can't happen but something sounds weird?

maybe changing your filter 3 times a day allowed enough sand to get inside the air box while the filter was off and caused the problem? but that is a streatch. i don't work on my bike unless it's mandatory in the desert and even then i try to do any work in a trailer. if it did go in the breather hose the hose would have enough oil residue in it to cause some to stick. cut your breather hose in half and take a pic and post it!

also post pics of the engine and all the damage. i would like to see the cams, and whats under the valve cover etc.

  • albertaguy

Posted November 07, 2007 - 03:20 PM

#16

maybe changing your filter 3 times a day allowed enough sand to get inside the air box while the filter was off and caused the problem? but that is a streatch. i don't work on my bike unless it's mandatory in the desert and even then i try to do any work in a trailer.


I have a fully enclosed trailer and all work is done in there or on a large piece of outdoor carpet. All this is in the graveled parking lot with no sand to speak of around. Plus carb is clean as a whistle. THe guy at the shop said he can definitely see where it came in through the breather hose. I'm going into look at it right now. If any Yamaha reps are reading this I think a recall is in order.

  • clutchless

Posted November 07, 2007 - 03:27 PM

#17

I have a fully enclosed trailer and all work is done in there or on a large piece of outdoor carpet. All this is in the graveled parking lot with no sand to speak of around. Plus carb is clean as a whistle. THe guy at the shop said he can definitely see where it came in through the breather hose. I'm going into look at it right now. If any Yamaha reps are reading this I think a recall is in order.



crazy dude! please take some pics of this. sorry to hear this.

probably should reroute my breather hose into my air box, i do this when i know i am going crossing rivers but never really cared about sand...

  • maddogyz250f

Posted November 07, 2007 - 03:56 PM

#18

Couldn't we just duct tape a small piece of fine cloth over the end of the breather hose? It would not stop water but it should stop sand from getting in.

  • KJ790

Posted November 07, 2007 - 03:58 PM

#19

One of the only ways it can suck sand up the breather tube is if the tube is buried in sand when the engine is shut off and the last stroke it makes is an up stroke. Even then it is unlikely any sand could make it to the head. As long as the engine is running, about an equal amount of air goes in as comes out, and in such a rapid succession that no sand has time to make it more than an inch or so up the 2.5ft tube.

  • heineken4menotu

Posted November 07, 2007 - 04:33 PM

#20

Hey i have a yz400f how can i fix this problem i'm going to the dunes in two weeks, and i don't have a kickstand. if you have any pics of your mod post them please:worthy:





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