Racerx Canada 2008 450 Shootout


37 replies to this topic
  • Polar_Bus

Posted November 06, 2007 - 12:27 PM

#21

I still laugh my ballz off at the guys who whine about "lack of punch". When the pro's comment that bike XXXX has a weak engine, that's truly a disadvantage in the pro rankings. When a squid novice, or a cocky amatuer comments that brand XXXX has weak power, they are just making stupid excuses. I don't call a "weak" engine "weak". I call it "forgiving and linear"...
Anybody can rag on a weak engine for the first 2 laps, but that weak engine will help you pass tired riders late in the moto from that "overly" fast 450 engine.....

You can rag me all ya' want, but it's just my 2 cents worth :worthy:

  • matts06yzf

Posted November 06, 2007 - 01:26 PM

#22

I've ridden CRF's. The latest one was an '07. I have to say that they are an impressive motorcycle in a number of ways, and I could probably get used to most of what I don't like about them. But at this point, and for many years prior, it has always come back to reliability.

Is the '06, '07, or '08 YZF as good as a CRF? It's debatable. It depends in part on what you like. They are both outrageously good, from any historical perspective spanning more than 8 years. But prior to '06, it clearly was not debatable, and even given that, I would not have owned a CRF in place of a YZ450. I don't have the time or the money to put into as much major maintenance as CRF's have needed in years past. Now that things seem to be improving for the red bike, that could change. But not yet, I think.




Well said. Put it this way My best friend owns a Honda dealership . The Kid I sponsor who is David Baileys Nephew rides all red of course. His Grandad owns Lake sugartree and they are great people but Ryan will be the 1st to tell you his new hondas last about a month before its serious work time. The valves he goes through is nuts. If you are going to just ride slow, not be on limiter etc they are ok. You give a honda hell it will cost you period. Yamahas relability seem to be unmatched. Im sure Ryan would tear shit up alot sooner on my bike than I would but I cant seem to hurt my yamahas. My best friend that owns the dealership even knows the truth, my bike is Never in his shop. Buy what ya want but when us blue guys are out riding and your valves are on back order dont cry to us.

Heres Ryan this weekend on a 166 footer
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On a Kawi he borrowed He went 1-1-1-1 in 125 a and 250 a only 16 yrs old and he knows hondas break haha
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  • vpmx

Posted November 06, 2007 - 03:02 PM

#23

If you are going to just ride slow, not be on limiter etc they are ok. You give a honda hell it will cost you period. Yamahas relability seem to be unmatched. Im sure Ryan would tear shit up alot sooner on my bike than I would but I cant seem to hurt my yamahas.



I agree that the Yamaha's motor could be arguably the most reliable of all the 450's, but you also rightfully stated that for most of us non-pro's this is not going to be as big of an issue. As you also rightfully suggested and I witnessed with Nick Evennou's YZ450F motor locking up, a pro will go through any of the motors faster.

That being said, the Honda's overall handling, feel, fit, finish, motor performance and turning capabilities are impressive. You ride it just one-time (no set-up needed) and you would be amazed.

I've got 5 friends on Honda 450's (2005 - 2007's) who have raced with me for years and only one of them on the 2005 has had to do his valves (only one time) and a couple of them are experts. If mine blows up, I'll post it, but for now I am all smiles.

Yamaha will have to work harder on the turning issues a bit more to win me back. The Honda feels like it is in a different class and makes it a lot easier to ride faster. Our moto's are only 15 - 20 minutes, so getting tired in that time frame should not be the bikes fault (unless I'm on my CR500AF).

  • matts06yzf

Posted November 06, 2007 - 03:25 PM

#24

I agree that the Yamaha's motor could be arguably the most reliable of all the 450's, but you also rightfully stated that for most of us non-pro's this is not going to be as big of an issue. As you also rightfully suggested and I witnessed with Nick Evennou's YZ450F motor locking up, a pro will go through any of the motors faster.

That being said, the Honda's overall handling, feel, fit, finish, motor performance and turning capabilities are impressive. You ride it just one-time (no set-up needed) and you would be amazed.

I've got 5 friends on Honda 450's (2005 - 2007's) who have raced with me for years and only one of them on the 2005 has had to do his valves (only one time) and a couple of them are experts. If mine blows up, I'll post it, but for now I am all smiles.

Yamaha will have to work harder on the turning issues a bit more to win me back. The Honda feels like it is in a different class and makes it a lot easier to ride faster. Our moto's are only 15 - 20 minutes, so getting tired in that time frame should not be the bikes fault (unless I'm on my CR500AF).



Far from true. I have ridden an 08 crf450 and it was ok. I liked kawi better to be honest. Have you ridden all the 08s? If not the 08 yz is a different monster compared to 06-07 it goes where you want it period. No set up needed is not even close to what I need i am not ur average sized boy. Do a drag race beside the new yz you might get shocked, we have done it and switched bikes:busted: :worthy: Dont drag the kx or you will be disappointed:bonk: Hondas are ok but i have 2 in my garge that have serious issues:blah: :worthy: . The valve trouble is still there period, just look in crf forum

  • grayracer513

Posted November 06, 2007 - 03:26 PM

#25

Also, to be fair about it, the parts for a CRF are less expensive (who knows? maybe they should be). I can put together a whole new CRF head for the price of a blank YZ450 part, and buy 4 new valves for the cost of the YZF exhaust valves. Still, it's nice not to have to mess with it at all.

  • vpmx

Posted November 06, 2007 - 05:30 PM

#26

Far from true. I have ridden an 08 crf450 and it was ok. The valve trouble is still there period, just look in crf forum



Your opinion of the Honda's ride performance being just OK is not consistent with mine, my friends and just about every professional test rider in the business. However, that is the beauty of having so many choices. Enjoy yours and I'll enjoy mine. I have been a a fan of Yamaha for most of my MX riding time over 30 years, but the new 2008 Honda is the best bike I have ever ridden. I also believe that Honda has improved the valve issue over the last few years and that the CRF Forum supports that as well.

This thread was started to show the results of the first on-line shootout. Agree or disagree - the points about the Honda and Yamaha are the same that I have experienced.

  • twenty34

Posted November 06, 2007 - 07:48 PM

#27

Either one of them could win races in a lime green shopping cart.


Since you ride Cahuilla, this should humble you.:worthy:


  • twenty34

Posted November 06, 2007 - 07:51 PM

#28

Well I got the chance to ride the 08 hon and Kaw last weekend. All I can say is both these bikes have power compared to the 08 yam with the stupid stock pipe(I rode one of these several weekends ago)...I agree, it is a shame that a yami owner has to spend 500-1000 on a pipe just to get the power of the rest of the 08 stockers. I actually enjoyed the Honda the most as it turns, very little push and has linear power(but is is that ugly Red). The Kawi does handle very similar to the yami (yes the front does push more compared to the Honda, especially on slick hardpack)), but the motor is sweet. Reminds me of my 06 yami. Since I am not in the mkt for a new bike this year it does not matter but now that I have ridden yami, kawi, and hon....my choice would be for 08 new bike sale
honda
Kawi
Yami
Zuk/KTM.....not even a consideration

Now in fairness....I hate hondas 2 oil system, and stupid Airfilter. I am not a fan of green motorcycles and legacy of kawi's falling apart...but most importantly I am not a supporter of paying over 7k/8k for any Jap dirtbike.....
So If I was going to buy any 08...it would be slightly used in the 5k-6k range...as SuperX starts here soon...everyone will buy new bikes...and most will be sold with 3 rides or less on them...with "injury or wife mandates sale" in a used MX market that is totally in the toilet for the seller:excuseme:


May the truth set you free.:worthy:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 06, 2007 - 09:56 PM

#29

Since you ride Cahuilla, this should humble you.:worthy:

Well, yes and no.

No, because it's no surprise to me. I just automatically expect that sort of thing from the kid. No because I've seen him look faster. But yes because I know that there isn't supposed to be a 150 foot double at CC! :worthy: (and a nifty scrub on the rock jump, too) My favorite Bubba quotes:
"Ah, I don't know how I do that stuff. I just do it." and,
"I never thought I would be this good."

Now, there was a guy out there one day on a steel YZ450 who was railing the edge of every corner at crazy fast speeds...that was humbling.

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  • Ga426owner

Posted November 07, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#30

May the truth set you free.:worthy:


it did that is why I am on my 06 still :worthy:

  • billyo

Posted November 07, 2007 - 06:58 AM

#31

even more humbling....
thunder at the beach race in wildwood nj just recently. guy on an old 2000 yz426...
he was absolutely flying and came away top 3 i believe in 250A. seeing this sure makes you re-think where you should apply your efforts. after all, i'm told the bike is only 10%-15% of the equation. yet we place most our focus on just that little part.... IMO.

  • vpmx

Posted November 07, 2007 - 07:31 AM

#32

even more humbling....
thunder at the beach race in wildwood nj just recently. guy on an old 2000 yz426...
he was absolutely flying and came away top 3 i believe in 250A. seeing this sure makes you re-think where you should apply your efforts. after all, i'm told the bike is only 10%-15% of the equation. yet we place most our focus on just that little part.... IMO.


Great point in that it applies more than to just RC and James Stewart. As a testimony to Yamaha, a lot of Vet Championships are won by Doug Dubach and Kevin Walker year after year. Even locally in the Sr. A class, any time Tim Schmelyun pulls out his old steel frame YZ450F he wins going away. Todd Stith is also practically unbeatable in Sr. A around MD/VA on his YZ450F.

  • endurodog

Posted November 07, 2007 - 02:20 PM

#33

Ok here is my .02 on the subject.

You guys only have it half right when saying it's more rider than bike. You are correct in that but for anyone including #4 or #7 there are things that would help them achieve their best. So what bike is going to do that for you?

I'm the proud owner of an 08 YZF450. My girlfriend has been trained to coach me and she does a pretty good job. I'm coming off of a 05 CRF450. I had always had Yamahas before that bike. She says I just look more comfortable on a Yamaha (have an 06 YZ250 2 stroke also for the woods). Yamaha fits me.

Other things to consider is if the bike is in the garage having valves worked on your not getting practice in. If your local dealer has your part in stock or back ordered. I live in Denver and there are several large Honda dealers and I was told several times they could order parts for me cause they didn't have them in stock. My Yamaha dealer has had parts in stock. I do race and Yamaha has some good contingency for my curcuit.

Any of the big 5 are good mounts with draw backs and strengths. You have to see what fits you best overall.

  • twenty34

Posted November 07, 2007 - 08:01 PM

#34

it did that is why I am on my 06 still :worthy:


Was that for financial reasons or because it's better than the other brands? :worthy:

  • Polar_Bus

Posted November 08, 2007 - 06:03 AM

#35

A fomous quote that was said to me back in 1983 by a good friend, and a "A" rider mentor at the time was that "fast bikes will holeshot, but fast cornering, and deep braking wins motos".

This is why I have run bone stock engines since 1984.

I very much respect Yamaha for sacrificing a few hp's for a more AMA legal db sound output. Noise is a REAL issue facing not only trail riders, but racers as well.
Two possible proposed local practice MX tracks near me were rejected by the towns, all because of that one bad word........ "noise"

  • grayracer513

Posted November 08, 2007 - 06:51 AM

#36

I very much respect Yamaha for sacrificing a few hp's for a more AMA legal db sound output.

I don't. Not because reducing the noise isn't a good idea, but because they could have done it without the sacrifice, and they didn't.

  • adamdf

Posted November 08, 2007 - 07:16 AM

#37

I don't. Not because reducing the noise isn't a good idea, but because they could have done it without the sacrifice, and they didn't.


Wow, Gray, actually speaking this way about Yamaha? The world is coming to an end! :worthy: jokes

  • Ga426owner

Posted November 08, 2007 - 07:21 AM

#38

I don't. Not because reducing the noise isn't a good idea, but because they could have done it without the sacrifice, and they didn't.


I agree. I think Yami's mkt share for 450 MX sales will be less than 07 because of it





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