2009 Rumours-E Start?


45 replies to this topic
  • SurvivorMan

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:02 AM

#1

Local dealer has heard these rumors for 09:
1. EFI (this one's probably going to happen)
2. E start with no battery. kick start when the bike is cold, then when running, energy is stored for E start. i don't know how they can store energy with out a battery??

if the e start is coming, that really gets me excited. the WR is too heavy and i don't want to go orange.
obviously, with an early release for the 08 models, the factory must be up to huge changes for 09...so then probably a later release for 09's, kinda like the late release on the highly modified 06's.

these are just rumors, anyone else heard of these?

  • grayracer513

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:12 AM

#2

Haven't heard the e-start rumor, but the way energy would be stored short term would be a capacitor. However, in the world I live in, it would take a most impressive capacitor to run a starter motor for any significant length of time. Modern science has done some amazing things, so I'll stop short of calling BS, and just say that I'll believe it when I see it.

Battery-less EFI often employs large capacitors to operate fuel pumps. First kick charges the system, second one starts it. Restarts are one kick affairs, as the capacitor is powered up already. Honda is said to have incorporated a low volume mechanical pump into the kick starter mechanism.

  • Polar_Bus

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:21 AM

#3

I have also heard there is a very high probability for EFI, as it's the next logical big step in technology. However for EFI to function, you need a high pressure electric pump. This adds weight. I just can't see Yamaha who has been so gung-ho on "lighter", add EFI, and electric start to the competition based YZ's. I would personally like to see two versions a YZ450F, and a YZ450F-E (for electric start). Let the buyer choose what suits them best. Hardcore "A" level MX racers won't want the added weight of electric start. However, there is a HUGE market for the other 80% of us slower race squids (and enduro racers) who would far more benifit the ease of electric start on a YZ450F. We should see the mags printing bits of '09 info pretty soon...

  • SurvivorMan

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:53 AM

#4

Yeah, the E start would be a big change and require a battery. i do like the idea of having an E start option YZ. unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't recognise off roaders. the WR line finally got a big update, but even that was late coming. i might have to just go to the XC's for next year.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:59 AM

#5

... for EFI to function, you need a high pressure electric pump. This adds weight. ...

A functional EFI pump capable of high volume at 80-100 pounds can be made no larger than a 35 mm film can, and live in the gas tank. Its weight, together with that of the injector, is easily offset by the reduction in weight that a throttle body represents versus a carburetor.

  • Ga450owner

Posted October 30, 2007 - 12:07 PM

#6

Well if go go by Yamahas 3 yr lifespan per design(97-99 - 00-02 - 03-05 and 06 - 08)....09 should be a complete new retooled specimen......
my guess would be
new frame
new motor
EFI
new KYB's

  • rickallen124

Posted October 30, 2007 - 12:26 PM

#7

It's also rumoured that the carbon fiber subframe air box that the rinaldi team and more recently factory yamaha in japan has been running will be part of the package. That would certainly offset any weight gains of the efi.

  • KAS

Posted October 30, 2007 - 02:21 PM

#8

I doubt he "heard" the rumors, probably just made shit up.

Predicting EFI isn't that grand by any stretch. Its bound to happen sometime.

  • DPW

Posted October 30, 2007 - 02:28 PM

#9

Have Dubach build/design the stock exhaust for the '09 YZ450F and BNG and call it good.


Yamaha needs to focus all their efforts on the YZ150F, the big wheel version.

  • rdjohnson55

Posted October 30, 2007 - 02:57 PM

#10

Somebody please tell me why EFI weighs so much ?? I don't understand why everyone thinks it's Heavy!!! Like Grayracer513 states the pump is only a small unit and you are getting rid of the Carb and replacing with a throttle body...

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  • rickallen124

Posted October 30, 2007 - 03:25 PM

#11

If a battery and e-start are added it will certainly add to the weight. Honda will incorporate the e-start and efi at the same time or at least thats whats being talked about.

  • NorCal

Posted October 30, 2007 - 03:26 PM

#12

So to run an '09 in enduros, you are going to need a bigger tank. How long will it take the aftermarket to develop a larger metal tank?

  • casperkc

Posted October 30, 2007 - 05:29 PM

#13

So to run an '09 in enduros, you are going to need a bigger tank. How long will it take the aftermarket to develop a larger metal tank?


Metal tanks are illegal in any AMA sanctioned event. Why would the aftermarket need to build a metal tank?

  • todds924

Posted October 30, 2007 - 05:42 PM

#14

Haven't heard the e-start rumor, but the way energy would be stored short term would be a capacitor. However, in the world I live in, it would take a most impressive capacitor to run a starter motor for any significant length of time. Modern science has done some amazing things, so I'll stop short of calling BS, and just say that I'll believe it when I see it.

Battery-less EFI often employs large capacitors to operate fuel pumps. First kick charges the system, second one starts it. Restarts are one kick affairs, as the capacitor is powered up already. Honda is said to have incorporated a low volume mechanical pump into the kick starter mechanism.


Gray, I believe your absolutely correct. I was wondering about the battery-less EFI systems myself. All the modern sportbikes need a battery. We will see capacitors on the EFI Suzuki RM 450Z I believe.

  • Gilkerson

Posted October 30, 2007 - 05:55 PM

#15

You don't need a metal tank for EFI. My GasGas has a plastic tank. The '08 Gassers have battery-less EFI and e-start, they separated the two systems this year. As for aftermarket EFI/fuel pump gas tanks, I bought one from Clarke for the Gasser back in '05. If they made one for a GG then surely they will make one for Suzuki in no time.

  • nap__kxf

Posted October 30, 2007 - 06:32 PM

#16

It's also rumoured that the carbon fiber subframe air box that the rinaldi team and more recently factory yamaha in japan has been running will be part of the package. That would certainly offset any weight gains of the efi.


theres no way that would happen unless 1) the discovered a new way to develop carbon fiber at 1/10th of the price, or produce the engine for pennies on the current dollar. the carbon fiber subframe/air box would be to costly and too much work on yamaha's part to produce that many carbon fiber airboxes, and it'd probably have to be handmade and then the human error comes into place and then there could be costly lawsuits for yamaha. i doubt they'll ever go that route.

  • NorCal

Posted October 30, 2007 - 07:07 PM

#17

I thought the '08 RMZ450's have a metal tank. :worthy:

  • grayracer513

Posted October 30, 2007 - 07:24 PM

#18

So to run an '09 in enduros, you are going to need a bigger tank. How long will it take the aftermarket to develop a larger metal tank?


Metal tanks are illegal in any AMA sanctioned event. Why would the aftermarket need to build a metal tank?

That means that no one with an '08 RMZ450 will be able to ride it, right? Metal tanks are not illegal, and EFI does not require a metal fuel tank just because the RMZ has one.

As far as starters go, the reason for having an e-start is nearly eliminated by EFI; the bike won't flood. It should start more easily with EFI than without.

  • twenty34

Posted October 30, 2007 - 08:00 PM

#19

However, there is a HUGE market for the other 80% of us slower race squids (and enduro racers) who would far more benifit the ease of electric start on a YZ450F.


What percentage of WR's are sold compared to YZ's? This will tell you whether your 80% theory is valid.

Personally, I have no problem kicking over my bike, however, I suppose if there were no weight penalties for incorporating a large capacitor, I'd consider. I still don't see the benefit of a one shot charge. Depending on the resistance used, I can only envision one shot at getting the bike fired up using this method. Not sure that offers a whole lot of benefit to consumers.

  • SurvivorMan

Posted November 01, 2007 - 06:16 AM

#20

what does KTM claim for weight increase when the manual kick start is replaced with the e start? i thought it was a difference of 2-3 pounds. i highly doubt the carbon fiber subframe.





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