Insulation wrapping my header.....


31 replies to this topic
  • sploogemonkey

Posted October 25, 2007 - 02:58 PM

#1

I wanna be a wrappppa! :crazy:

Actually, I want to keep some heat off my jug and head and inside the header, where it belongs.

I researched this subject , a little, and it appears that there are a few trains of thought about it.

PRO:
It keeps the heat in the header and allows the cyl/head to stay cooler.
Reducres the chance of burning myself on the exposed header.Helps keep oil temp down.
CON:
The wrap doesn't allow header material to effectively dissipate heat during cool off period.Trapped heat will weaken header material in time.Moisture can get trapped under wrap on stock header and cause corrosion.
I've also heard that a good alternative to using header wrap is to have the header treated with a ceramic coating. Okay, anybody here know how durable the ceramic coating is? Does it eventually break down? After all, it is a coating.

Alrighty then..... I'm sure some of youse guys's around here have done one or the other, and there's probably at least on real anal bahookie who has probably done both.

Is one better than the other?

I'm not necessarily looking for a horsepower increase, I just want my engine to run a bit coller and last a little longer.

And I like the look of things wrapped in tape. It makes my private area feel kinda funny.:D

  • 06crf_er

Posted October 25, 2007 - 03:04 PM

#2

It makes my private area feel kinda funny.:D


:applause: :crazy: :bonk:

  • TDC71

Posted October 25, 2007 - 03:08 PM

#3

I have had mine wrapped for two years or 6k depending how u look at it. I love it, less heat from the exhaust and it looks cool I think. Yes it will hold moisture until you fire it up and it gets cooked out but not too many guys I know leave their pigs in the rain. When its running the water doesnt get a chance to soak in. Its a pain in the ass to wrap but once done its sick looking:thumbsup:

  • sploogemonkey

Posted October 25, 2007 - 04:56 PM

#4

I have had mine wrapped for two years.......Its a pain in the ass to wrap but once done its sick looking:thumbsup:


....teach...me...... :D


I've seen some wrapped headers and I like the look too.:crazy:

In addition to the look, though, I'm hoping to benefit from the advantage of less heat emanating from the pipes. I figure the headers wrap around the downtube which holds oil and run right along the jug which is bound to transfer heat to it.

Seems like a win-win situation to isolate heat away from those two areas, as well as my leg when I'm on the bike.

I agree that starting the bike and letting it warm up after washing it should dry everything out, so I guess the corrosion part is a moot point since my bike stays in the garage and isn't affected by overnight dew or moisture.

I'll wait to see if someone here can provide a compelling enough case to disuade me from wrap-wrap-wrappin my heada.

  • weskc35k

Posted October 25, 2007 - 11:47 PM

#5

The headers on the R are stainless so it won't do SFA to it.
Just do it,i did.

  • Descalzo

Posted October 26, 2007 - 04:31 AM

#6

If you've researched ceramics, you've found that the vast majority of them are a cosmetic coating and not a real TBC (thermal barrier coat).

They all claim TBC properties because they do indeed reduce temps a few degrees, but there's actually very few places in the USA that provide a TBC ceramic coat. A "real" TBC is not a pretty sight. They used to come in any color you wanted as long as it was an ugly dull grey, although Swain now has it in white.

To get the TB effect, you have to flow coat the interior & exterior of the tube. That means the tube has to be less than 12" to get a even coat.

Metal being as metal is, it expands & contracts as it heat cycles. Ceramic being as ceramic is, doesn't. That means that the coating "craze's". It develops a jillion little hairline cracks in the coating - no big deal if you're looking for the function, a big deal if you care about form. Which is why the majority of "ceramic coated" headers are cosmetic, not a TBC.

Ceramics are expensive. Something around $45-$50 a foot last time I looked, which is just for the coat, not the prep work needed to coat. So that's what? ...Something like $200 to put a TBC coat a new virgin header? & that assumes you've got a header that can be coated in the 1st place (ie it pulls apart into 10-12" sections ala Leo Vince or simular)

Most ceramics are wonderful at corrosion protection, look "fabulous", & incredibly durable, but they don't really manage the heat & managing the heat is what it's really all about. A hot gas flows faster than a cool gas, a fast gas scavenges better than a slow gas, a scavenged cylinder fills better than a unscavenged cylinder, & a filled cylinder makes more power than a partially filled cylinder.

Wrap on the other hand are relatively inexpesive & can be put on anything. Manage heat effectively for the $ (can't touch a TBC, but it's 1/4 the cost). It's got a bad "wrap" for rusting headers, but it's a burn through issue, not a rust through issue. The life expectancy of a wrapped, mild steel, 4 into 1, V-8 header is roughly 3 years. I can't comment about a stainless header, but I'd expect it'd last longer.

For whatever it's worth, that's what I know about the two.

I went with the wrap -

Posted Image

Posted Image

1 roll of 1" wrap. I was able to get the 3 pieces of my header & all but 2" of the mid-pipe.

  • Descalzo

Posted October 26, 2007 - 05:28 AM

#7

Thinking about my 1st post for a minute or two - I don't want anyone to get the impression I'm "anti-coat" - I'm actually very much pro-coat. :crazy:
If I were bucks-up, I'd have my header & about 63 other things on my bike coated with various "stuff" in a heartbeat.

However, it was my intent to poo-poo a couple of well known companies that market their service/product as being something it really not - heat reduction is just a minor, freaky, side effect of what they do.

  • Denn10

Posted October 26, 2007 - 05:52 AM

#8

wrapping that header wont be that hard....for me that is, i used to wrap exhaust for Rotax UAV engines and i mean wrap many many sets of exhaust and they looked GOOD. We used 2 layers and an outter of aluminum looking stuff like you see in Summit. The only kicker with the under insulation that looks like cloth is once it gets hot it gets brittle so if you cover with the aluminum looking stuff that will protect it fine. Tell me where in IE you are if your close to Chino or Ontario i can hook you up cuz the in laws live in chino and wife works with her mon in ontario so im down there often.

  • martinfan30

Posted October 26, 2007 - 06:52 AM

#9

denn, you got ant pics of yer work?

  • donnyh

Posted October 26, 2007 - 01:36 PM

#10

Interesting topic.

Did I see a pic here at TT of painted header wrap? Are any of you guys painting these wrap jobs?

Is the stock header pipe expensive? If I do this and rust out my pipe, is the replacement cost gonna be stiff?

I'm very interested in the wrap for two reasons:

The price of the riding pants I'm thinking of buying is not cheap, I'd hate to burn them during everyday use.

and

I once burned the living crap out of my calve on a hot pipe during a wreck, everything about that wreck was trivial except the burn, which was life changing, if header wrap protects me from such a burn, I'm all for it.

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  • weskc35k

Posted October 26, 2007 - 05:45 PM

#11

The header is Stainless steel.

  • wheelnut46

Posted October 26, 2007 - 05:47 PM

#12

I wanna be a wrappppa!Reduces the chance of burning myself on the exposed header.[/list]


You aint kidding!
The scab just fell off my calf after a low speed put down almost 2 weeks ago where my leg (in jeans) rested on my header and burned a spot about the size of a 1/2 dollar. That sucker hurt pretty good. Big, festering oozing painful burn. :worthy: Might even scar.

  • scalejockey

Posted October 26, 2007 - 07:11 PM

#13

Iv'e had mine wrapped since iv'e owned it (2years) and had to re-wrap it just last month after a hit from a log tore it up. The hi heat paint helps keep it from shreading and makes it easier to clean.

  • Old Dog

Posted October 27, 2007 - 11:44 AM

#14

Iv'e had mine wrapped since iv'e owned it (2years) and had to re-wrap it just last month after a hit from a log tore it up. The hi heat paint helps keep it from shreading and makes it easier to clean.


When you wrapped it, did you take the header off the bike to do it, or did you wrap it with it on the bike? I've got some wrap, but have yet to put it on. I'd imagine if you painted the wrap with high heat paint, you must have had to take the header off the bike. It would be a major P.I.T.A. trying to paint it on the bike.

  • Descalzo

Posted October 28, 2007 - 02:34 AM

#15

Off bike is the way to go, although I suppose you could do it on bike.

Throw the roll in a pan of warm water for a bit (less than a minute - you want it thouroughly damp, but not sopping wet). Unwrap a few feet off the roll (less than 10), then take the roll and wrap it around the your workbench leg, vise stand, fence post, something sturdy, heavy, & preferably attached to the ground. Make your 1st wrap & put a zip tie on it for the moment, make your 2nd & give it a good tug, make your 3rd wrap and give a real good pull. After your 3rd wrap you'll really be able to keep a nice tension on the wrap all the time, and really pull/tug/lean into it after it after each full turn, keeping it nice & tight with no "wrinkles" going around tight bends. Secure the ends with whatever you're going to secure the ends with & wah-la - wrapped header!

Thermo-tec gives you a lil formula to figure out how long a length you'll need to wrap a given dia. tube, but I suggest not pre cutting. If you "pre-cut" you can't you can't wrap the excess around somthing to get a good pull/tension over the entire length of the wrap-job. If you can't keep a good pull, it ends up looking loose & kinda sloppy - because it is (IMO at least).

If you're going to paint, ya gotta let it throughly dry. Either by it's self (days) or in your oven (hours - if you can get it in there).
Like others mentioned, painting helps preserve the wrap & "lasts" a little longer, plus an un-painted wrap will absorb any fluid it comes into contact with - fuel, oil, brake fluid, etc. & will discolor whereever that happened, giving a splotchy, stained appearance - because it is, stained that is. Thermo-tec sells a "pre-impregnated" black (which is what I used on mine) which might be the way to go if you're going to try & do it "on bike" and not paint afterwards.

  • Old Dog

Posted October 28, 2007 - 02:39 PM

#16

Thanks Descalzo! :worthy:

Where did you buy the Thermo-tec "pre-impregnated" black?

  • Descalzo

Posted October 28, 2007 - 05:06 PM

#17

Thanks Descalzo! :worthy:

Where did you buy the Thermo-tec "pre-impregnated" black?


Got mine from Jegs (the car place) but Summit & Speedway motors have it for sure as well. Car places seem to sell it for alot less than bike shops.

  • Denn10

Posted October 29, 2007 - 06:38 AM

#18

you dont need to get it wet, what you do have to do it pull it thigt as you wrap each time around. I use lacing wire on start and finish and maybe one time in the middle to help hold it. I wish i had some pics of the exhaust i had to wrap for the Predator UAV Rotax engines, id be getting pms like crazy wanting you all to do yours. If you can get some of the aluminized wrap for your outter layer it will look great but like any wrap it doesnt last forever if your offroading and beating through the bushes.

  • martinfan30

Posted October 29, 2007 - 07:42 AM

#19

you dont need to get it wet, what you do have to do it pull it thigt as you wrap each time around. I use lacing wire on start and finish and maybe one time in the middle to help hold it. I wish i had some pics of the exhaust i had to wrap for the Predator UAV Rotax engines, id be getting pms like crazy wanting you all to do yours. If you can get some of the aluminized wrap for your outter layer it will look great but like any wrap it doesnt last forever if your offroading and beating through the bushes.



did you paint the wrap?

  • Denn10

Posted October 29, 2007 - 10:21 AM

#20

no we used to layers of wrap, one thin one thick, then the aluminized outter for last layer. Lemme find some stuff like we used

http://www.designeng....asp?m=sp&pid=9
this kinda stuff is what our first 2 layers were, the woven material kind, not fun to wrap but just have to pull it tight and overlap a little bit 2" works awesome for small diameter pipes, ours were 1.25 outside diameter

http://www.designeng...album=27&page=2
heres some good pics but i could do a much nicer cleaner job than these pics

http://www.titebike...._TM_2_x_60_.htm
this is what we used as outter layer for good looks, you use 2" and fold edge about 1/4 inch so it doesnt fray and overlap with wrap and it looks good if you like the look of this stuff, i see alot of colored cloth wrap which is cool too.





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