My pig flies, but bottoms out...


26 replies to this topic
  • mmm0042

Posted October 07, 2007 - 02:14 PM

#1

I have the front fork setting almost all the way down and still frequently bottom them out. I'm only 170 lbs. so I was under the impression the stock suspension would be adequate. Anyone else have any similar problems? Is the bike just not meant to be jumped?

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  • Mutu

Posted October 07, 2007 - 03:10 PM

#2

The valving is for "trail". That means it is only adequate for putting around.

  • mmm0042

Posted October 07, 2007 - 05:28 PM

#3

lol, my 450 doesn't putt around at all. Don't get me wrong, I mostly do woods and really prefer it to track riding, but I don't and it doesn't putt. :confused:

Seriously though, am I just getting too much air for the bike and suspension set up? I'm not going to change it for track style riding because it's not my normal or preferred riding conditions, but I'd like to know if I'm pushing it's limits or it's set up wrong.

BTW, what do you mean by valving? I've had the forks and quite a few other forks apart and have never seen any "valves" or anything I would consider valve like... :confused:

  • Mutu

Posted October 07, 2007 - 06:39 PM

#4

Base valve + shim stacks = valving.
How the shims react to the oil flowing past them determines how the firm / soft dampening is.

The best thing I did to my wr450f is get a "re-valve" (change shim stack set up) and springs to suit my weight. The change was absolutely dramatic.

I found the stock set up is not any good for any air as both the shock and forks blow through the stroke and become very harsh at the end of the stroke before they bottom out.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted October 07, 2007 - 09:44 PM

#5

I found the stock set up is not any good for any air as both the shock and forks blow through the stroke and become very harsh at the end of the stroke before they bottom out.


I don't even feel the "very harsh" part when coming of decent sized hits like what the original poster posted...it just kinda goes from fully extended to bottomed out instantly :confused:

The more I think about it the better of an idea getting the front end done sounds. Mutu, do you think it'd be worth it going to a stiffer spring rate with heavier fluid without changing the valving? Going that route means I could do it in a garage with the help of a friend without spending lots of dough.

  • redswr

Posted October 07, 2007 - 10:37 PM

#6

i'm having the same problem here... i just got my new springs in and was going to put the on tuesday but not if i should revalve it also. i'm doing a dune race on the 20th (WORCS Round 11) and i know i deffinatly need the springs.

  • Mutu

Posted October 07, 2007 - 11:09 PM

#7

The more I think about it the better of an idea getting the front end done sounds. Mutu, do you think it'd be worth it going to a stiffer spring rate with heavier fluid without changing the valving? Going that route means I could do it in a garage with the help of a friend without spending lots of dough.

I was 240lbs when I got my bike. I definately needed new springs!
Anyways, first I just got the springs by themselves. They made a huge difference to how the bike felt, like I could actually sit on the bike instead of in the bike, if you know what I mean.
Because the dampening was way too soft with stock springs, going up in spring rates just made the problem worse. If I cranked the clickers, it just got harsh. I tried 5wt and 10wt, and a mix of the two. I ended up getting sick and tired of playing around with clickers and oil weights, so I sent my susp. away for revalve. There was nothing I could do to compensate for the soft valving. I should have just sent it away at the start.

Personally, I'd just get the whole lot done professionally, and be done with it.
Even if I was "ideal" weight, I'd still get my suspension done professionally.

One thing else to think about - I also thought the shock was pretty good....
Untill I got it back after the revalve!!! Man, what a difference it made.

I know it costs a bit to get the suspension done, but I know it made my bike so much more enjoyable to ride. I know I am definately a lot more competitive for the money I spent. :confused:

  • mmm0042

Posted October 08, 2007 - 08:14 AM

#8

so I sent my susp. away for revalve. There was nothing I could do to compensate for the soft valving.

I know it costs a bit to get the suspension done


You say you sent your suspension away for the revalve. Where did you send it? The only thing I trust my local shop with is swaping rubber on the rims. No way I would have them do this...

About how much does it cost?

Thanks for the info so far, it has been very informative and helpful.

  • yamaslamma

Posted October 08, 2007 - 09:09 AM

#9

I had the same experience but I wiegh 230 without gear.
2 feet in the air and I would bottom out.
I took the bike to a local racing suspension guy and had it done!!

I am now a very happy rider.:confused:

best money a rider can spend on his mount!!!:confused:

  • Thumper_Bloke

Posted October 08, 2007 - 09:58 AM

#10

I had the same experience but I wiegh 230 without gear.
2 feet in the air and I would bottom out.
I took the bike to a local racing suspension guy and had it done!!

I am now a very happy rider.:confused:

best money a rider can spend on his mount!!!:confused:


Did the guy re-spring, or re-valve? Mine bottoms easily too, i'm only 180lbs. But the rear seems to ocmpress way too easily.

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  • Dube2

Posted October 08, 2007 - 10:17 AM

#11

nice form mmm,:confused:

  • bg10459

Posted October 08, 2007 - 12:10 PM

#12

I'm 265 and I re-sprung front and rear for my weight and switched to Mobil1 synthetic ATF in the forks. I'm not sure what weight the ATF is, but I'm pretty sure it's heavier than fork oil. I really like the way my suspension handles now and I don't think I'm going to re-valve this bike. However, I did ride an MX track once and noticed I was bottoming. I originally started with 120 mm fork oil height and it was nice and plush on the trails, but I never really jumped with it. I added about 10 mm more oil (110 mm oil height) for yesterdays' hare scramble (sandy mix of MX and trails) and it felt really good and never bottomed. Granted, there were no huge MX jumps, but it still felt good and I believe you can go as high as 90 mm oil height, which would further increase bottoming resistance.

Long story short, heavier oil and higher oil height is a cheap test that may just cure your problem.:confused:

  • Mutu

Posted October 08, 2007 - 02:59 PM

#13

You say you sent your suspension away for the revalve. Where did you send it? The only thing I trust my local shop with is swaping rubber on the rims. No way I would have them do this...

About how much does it cost?

Thanks for the info so far, it has been very informative and helpful.

I live in a small town in Australia, with no bike shops :confused: so I have to either do everything myself or send it away. The suspension is the only thing I don't do (apart from changing fork oil).
I just packed up my suspension and sent it away to a suspension shop.
It cost me about $300 (US$270) or something like that for the revalve, oils and labor. :confused: I already brought the eibach springs before.

Maybe someone from the US can quote some prices for you? :confused:

  • mmm0042

Posted October 09, 2007 - 11:01 AM

#14

Thanks for all the great advice, much appreciated. With the info in this thread and others like this:

http://www.thumperta...light=wr spring

I have decided to respring, mess with oil weight, height and go from there. I can respring myself and am on a limited budget, so I'm going to stay away from the valving and paying a tech $80 /hr unless completely necessary.


nice form mmm,:confused:


Thanks!

  • mmm0042

Posted October 09, 2007 - 11:06 AM

#15

BTW, now I'm off to figure out what the bike has, what weight they are for, and try to figure out what I should go up to... Once again, any advice is always appreciated.

Thanks again! :confused:

  • redswr

Posted October 09, 2007 - 12:26 PM

#16

BTW, now I'm off to figure out what the bike has, what weight they are for, and try to figure out what I should go up to... Once again, any advice is always appreciated.

Thanks again! :confused:


well for motorcross and desert/trail the spring rate i got was under what comes stock... arena cross and supercross was a little higher.

front spring rate

rear spring rate

  • mmm0042

Posted October 09, 2007 - 12:38 PM

#17

well for motorcross and desert/trail the spring rate i got was under what comes stock... arena cross and supercross was a little higher.

front spring rate

rear spring rate


Yeah, I found that sight in the suspension forum. If I put my actual weight in and do enduro or motorcross, I get a recommendation similar to stock settings (slightly higher on arean and super). I bumped the weight up from 170 to 200 (gear, gas, etc.) and am thinking of going with .48 in the front.

I don't think I'll be changing the rear. For whatever reason, I don't seem to have a problem with the back. In fact, sometimes it seems a bit stiff. :confused:

Thanks!

  • Mutu

Posted October 09, 2007 - 05:48 PM

#18

I don't think I'll be changing the rear. For whatever reason, I don't seem to have a problem with the back. In fact, sometimes it seems a bit stiff. :confused:

Thanks!

Hard to believe, but that's because it may be too soft for you. :confused:
A spring that is too stiff will feel too soft for you as well! :confused:
I will elaborate later for you if you like. :confused:

Have you set your rear sag up for yourself?

And also, a 30lbs jump up is a fair bit. I'd play with the oil before getting .48 fork springs. :confused:

  • mmm0042

Posted October 10, 2007 - 05:38 AM

#19

Hard to believe, but that's because it may be too soft for you. :confused:
A spring that is too stiff will feel too soft for you as well! :confused:
I will elaborate later for you if you like. :confused:

Have you set your rear sag up for yourself?

And also, a 30lbs jump up is a fair bit. I'd play with the oil before getting .48 fork springs. :confused:


Well, I might as well learn this stuff... This isn't my first and definately won't be my last bike. So please, elighten me!

BTW, your not the only one saying I should stick with stock up front and mess with the settings/oil. I think I am in the middle of the high and low specs for oil. I'll probably fill them up a bit, just shy of the high end, see how it performs. My next step will be thicker oil and after that, coming back here for some more advice! :confused:

  • Mutu

Posted October 10, 2007 - 05:07 PM

#20

Well, I might as well learn this stuff... This isn't my first and definately won't be my last bike. So please, elighten me!

I'll do you one better! I'll scan a great magazine article for you!




 
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