Petroleum oil better?


38 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted October 11, 2007 - 02:48 PM

#21

what is most interesting about that test, is that it is not what i have found in real life ...

Interesting. It matches up pretty well with my own real world experience. Almost all oil companies have run this same battery of tests. They're something of an industry standard. The ones that publish the results (yes, for marketing purposes) are the ones that have done well in them.

  • crf-f crf-r trx cbr

Posted October 11, 2007 - 05:57 PM

#22

rekuse recommends rotella/////

  • swaldrop

Posted October 11, 2007 - 06:18 PM

#23

So now I am a bit confused. I started using Rotella T because of the positive feedback from users here on TT. I was also pretty pumped about the cost.

Now I read that it isn't as good as I once thought. Lots of debates on which is better, but no one really agreeing on anything.

If not Rotella T, then what? Did I get that right that the Walmart brand would be a good choice? Or is it just not as bad as some? Oh and I don't have a Rekluse...

Lots of good technical info here, but to the oil laymen, it's a bit much.

Thanks

  • 642MX

Posted October 11, 2007 - 06:32 PM

#24

So now I am a bit confused. I started using Rotella T because of the positive feedback from users here on TT. I was also pretty pumped about the cost.

Now I read that it isn't as good as I once thought. Lots of debates on which is better, but no one really agreeing on anything.

If not Rotella T, then what? Did I get that right that the Walmart brand would be a good choice? Or is it just not as bad as some? Oh and I don't have a Rekluse...

Lots of good technical info here, but to the oil laymen, it's a bit much.

Thanks



I'll put it into simple terms: The best oil, is clean oil. The brand is not as important as keeping it changed.

I use Rotella, I have for a couple years now. I've had absolutely no problems, but I change it often (every ride).

Hope this helps.....

  • swaldrop

Posted October 11, 2007 - 06:40 PM

#25

Makes sense to me. I change mine every other ride and the filter every other oil change. I usually put just over an hour to an hour and a half at most on the bike each time (MX only).

Hopefully that is often enough.

  • 642MX

Posted October 11, 2007 - 06:57 PM

#26

Makes sense to me. I change mine every other ride and the filter every other oil change. I usually put just over an hour to an hour and a half at most on the bike each time (MX only).

Hopefully that is often enough.


It sounds like your changing it enough. I think you'll be fine. Stick to what your doing. :confused:

  • Merc1212

Posted October 12, 2007 - 06:49 AM

#27

While the AMSOIL test seem quite exhaustive, the fact that they sponsored it worries me as well. That is not to say that it isn't as good as they say it is, but I would definitively take it with a grain of salt. The other part I don't like about it, is the fact that the tests are all synthetic - none of the oil is run through a real engine. This makes the tests easy to run and they will produce consistent results run after run but to state in the conclusion that the oil that does best in these tests will be the best in your engine with certainty, is a bit of a stretch.

Sunruh, what I love about your tests is that they are done in an mx bike and under mx conditions - no group of synthetic benchmarks can replace that. It is real world, the only problem being the controls - it is difficult to reproduce similar results and subject oil to identical conditions each time. I wish someone had the time and money to do this, but I'd suggest a dyno based test in an mx bike as a good compromise of real world and synthetic benchmarking.

All that said - I have much more faith in your results Sunruh than any biased oil company comparison. I think it is quite obvious that you are not being paid off to run these because your results flip or flop everytime brand x releases a new formula.

I am curious about your comment on the latest CI-4 oils - are all new bottles of Rotella, Dello, mobil adhearing to this standard, or can you still find the old stuff (CF-4)?

  • grayracer513

Posted October 12, 2007 - 08:58 AM

#28

As I said, every major oil company does testing like this. Calling the results into question is an attack on the reputation of the lab involved. The smaller one use the information primarily to back up statements that their product meets certain certification standards without actually applying for certification. For instance, many blenders will state that their oil meets JASO MA standards, but are not actually certified. If challenged, they can show test data to establish their claims. This saves them quite a bit of money. When they do well in such studies, they will publish the results.

As to the question of lab testing vs. used oil sampling, understand that these are oil industry standard tests, devised by people who know more about it than we do. Lab tests have the advantage of being able to test a single attribute of an oil in complete isolation from all other factors. The shear stability test, for example, tests viscosity retention without the need to factor in fuel or other forms of contamination, nor any other factor that might contribute.

Besides that, the American Petroleum Institute is unquestionably above Amsoil's financial influence, and their grading of GL-1 is pretty hardcore evidence.

My own UOA samples were made from 2 different YZ450's and a YZ250F. The samples from the 250F showed Mobil 1 Racing 4T (MX4T) 10w-40 and Amsoil MCF 10w-40 had no appreciable viscosity loss at 8 hours, and were in grade. The samples from the 450 showed the same results on the same two oils at 10 hours. The results were much different when I tested Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15w-50 (gold cap), Rotella 15w-40 (petro), or Amsoil's premium automotive oil, all of which fell out of grade in 4 hours or less.

I have simillar results from a friend's Kawasaki Nomad V-Twin, which turned Rotella into a 10w-30 in 1200 miles, while the same bike ran Amsoil MCF for 2500 miles, and it was still in grade at that point.

So, I don't know what else to tell you. But I'm happy with my stuff, and the bikes seem to like it, too.

  • Merc1212

Posted October 12, 2007 - 09:34 AM

#29

Very interesting Gray, I didn't know that you had done your own UOAs and found different results. And stating that the above mentioned oils last up to 10hrs is quite impressive - that would cut down my current 10-15 oil changes down to 3 for the life of the bike (30hrs).

As for standards and testing - I don't question the methodology, or the various certifications I just question whether or not they are 100% correlated to actual use in a bike, which will have fuel contamination etc. But if you're saying that the UOAs looked fine after 10hrs, I'll take your word for it.

Thanks for the response.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • grayracer513

Posted October 12, 2007 - 10:14 AM

#30

Very interesting Gray, I didn't know that you had done your own UOAs and found different results. And stating that the above mentioned oils last up to 10hrs is quite impressive - that would cut down my current 10-15 oil changes down to 3 for the life of the bike (30hrs).

As for standards and testing - I don't question the methodology, or the various certifications I just question whether or not they are 100% correlated to actual use in a bike, which will have fuel contamination etc. But if you're saying that the UOAs looked fine after 10hrs, I'll take your word for it.

Thanks for the response.

Mind you, I don't run my oil that long ordinarily. My standard oil change interval is 3 ride days, and I'll do it at less than that prior to or just after a big race.

But the question of lab versus use field testing is as old as science itself. The fact is that both are necessary to get a complete picture of something, at least that's my opinion.

  • Merc1212

Posted October 12, 2007 - 10:48 AM

#31

I agree 100% - both are required. Lab for pinpointing areas which need improvement in the formulation and field for us consumers to know which works best in our particular application. Field testing has never and will never present the consistent reproducible results that a lab can. And lab tests will never be able to reproduce the exact conditions of your application. I wouldn't base an important decision without considering both either, which is why I posted originally. I'm glad that you have done just that, and it is for this reason that I really value your opinion on this topic, and I'm sure others do as well.

Cheers

  • ncmountainman

Posted October 12, 2007 - 08:38 PM

#32

so where does one send oil for these tests that are mentioned,i'm kinda wondering how my blend would stand up real world without mythodology:thumbsup: i guess i'd have to send a sample new and used as there is no base comparison

  • UnBubba

Posted October 12, 2007 - 08:54 PM

#33

I've used Yamalube 4R for years without a problem. Easy to find. I change my oil about every 3 or 4 rides, and my filter every other oil change. I keep my bikes for about 3 years, and ride quite a bit.
I'm glad I don't have an oil fetish.:crazy:

  • grayracer513

Posted October 12, 2007 - 10:15 PM

#34

so where does one send oil for these tests that are mentioned,i'm kinda wondering how my blend would stand up real world without mythodology:thumbsup: i guess i'd have to send a sample new and used as there is no base comparison

Not really. You can get the information as to what your oil contains from the manufacturer's web site, generally, and viscosity is a standard value.

You can send a used sample through Amsoil, or to Blackstone Labs. They'll send you a shipping kit through the mail.

  • frogman

Posted October 12, 2007 - 11:11 PM

#35

Because the manufacturers know the mindset of riders with expensive engines to maintain, they hype and propagandize the abilities of their products.

IMHO it takes a pretty gullible person to pay 10 bucks for a quart of motor oil.

  • BergArabia

Posted October 13, 2007 - 04:15 AM

#36

Because the manufacturers know the mindset of riders with expensive engines to maintain, they hype and propagandize the abilities of their products.

IMHO it takes a pretty gullible person to pay 10 bucks for a quart of motor oil.


Yeah there is a lot of hyperboly in advertising any consumable.
But even at 10 bucks it is cheap compared to the result of not changing oil often enough..

  • frogman

Posted October 13, 2007 - 04:22 AM

#37

I met people that don't want to change their oil often because they paid so much for it.

LOL!

  • frogman

Posted October 13, 2007 - 04:24 AM

#38

But if I had lotsa $$, I'd probably buy expensive oil, I guess I'll never know.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 13, 2007 - 08:38 AM

#39

IMHO it takes a pretty gullible person to pay 10 bucks for a quart of motor oil.

I pay about $6/qt for Amsoil MCF.

The choice was made based on the factual information I've mentioned.





Related Content

Forums
Photo

Chubby dad, looking at bikes , First trip to the orange/black forum ! by Slow_ride


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   KTM   250-530 EXC/MXC/SXC/XC-W/XCR-W (4-Strokes)
  • Hot  28 replies
Forums
Photo

yz250x vs 450 4t comparisons (preferably desert riding) needed by JakeNorthrupYZ450F


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   Yamaha 2-Stroke
  • 9 replies
Forums
Photo

Is it worth it? (Cam and High compression piston) by macgi77


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   CRF 150/230 F/L
  • Hot  36 replies
Wiki
WR Camshaft Swap Info - last post by jamesm113

WR Camshaft Swap Info


Articles
  • 0 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.