Borynack suspension report (thanks)


21 replies to this topic
  • ABTrailers

Posted September 28, 2007 - 02:59 PM

#1

Well after trading in the humble light 300exc for a big red pig a suspension change seemed needed. After years of riding mostly stock bikes the BRP is the first one that I have really played with the suspension. It all started after my first ride on the BRP, a couple falls, a destroyed radiator.......I knew something needed to change. I used to be able to mostly keep the orange bike in the upright position at a fast pace, and was wondering if I had made a mistake going to the BRP. Following these pages I stumbled on the Borynack page and being a gearhead within minutes there were red parts all over my shop. Went with the baja 1000 setup (sounded cool) per Mr Borynacks suggestion.
Its been about 4 trips so far and I must say that at speed the Honda is now much more stable at speed than the ktm ever was. Very powerfull, great in deep sand and very forgiving. Not as nimble as the 230 lb two stroke in the really tight stuff but being a big guy I can ride it about anywhere. At high speed the suspension can handle some bad stuff althought as an old guy after a few hours the whoops take the toll and make me slow down. Next is to fine tune which i'm hopeing will make it even better. A couple trips ago I did hit a large rock (yeah I know I should miss them) at around 60 mph, I thought I may be getting off really hard but a little flight thru the air and a big ding in the front wheel and all is well, I'm not sure if I may have had a broken arm if not for the updated suspension.
All in all I'm very happy with the new suspension, and many thanks for my Borynack suspension.
Alex

  • weskc35k

Posted September 28, 2007 - 05:23 PM

#2

Dejavu.

  • scalejockey

Posted September 29, 2007 - 06:08 AM

#3

DITTO! I valved mine as "race" setting now if I go to the woods for some 1st,2nd gear trail rides I just back off the clickers. Then out in the desert turn them back in.
The only thing different that I did on mine ,(after stiffer springs) was put a 3\4"preload spacer on the front springs.It really helped even more for handling in the slower big whoops.

  • BWB63

Posted October 08, 2007 - 03:05 PM

#4

I got a PM that was asking about this and that. Thought the answer would fit here after I saw another thread griping about the suspension web page.

More and more I am finding that the desert race setup and the Baja 500 setup do everything anyone would want. They both plant the bike better then the other setups and give confidence to the rider that in the end makes the rider push to a new standard in his riding. (Wow, sounds like a sales pich and I just spit that out, maybe I should go into marketing?:confused: ) I think the Trail riding setup is to soft for any truely agressive rider, great for the guy that runs fire roads and two track, the Baja 1000 is super plush and a little softer then stock. The Desert race will have a little more bottoming resistance then stock but, be way plusher, soaking up the rocks, ruts and such. There are a lot of big rocks and small whoops everywhere in the desert and this setup help to keep the ear to ear grin on those long days. Good for a little more then a four foot drop off, if your bike is sprung for your weight. The Baja 500 is just a step up from the desert race with more control in compression and rebound to handle the bigger whoops. These last two can truely handle an aggressive rider and there are several that run the Baja 500; to race district #37, BITD and the SCORE races. The Desert Race and the Baja 500 have been up-dated to handle 'G'-outs with multible hits during the 'G'-out. The Baja 250 is about as plush as stock, will have much more bottoming resistance and has landed 70' table tops, the huge whoops going North out of SanFelipi at crazy break neck speeds.

When I get around to updating the suspension pages I am going to have only four setups. Have better names or explain things better.
I think:
#1 Desert/Single Track

#2 Desert Race

#3 Baja Race

#4 CR500R/XR650R Hybrid Race Setup

I will make the Fork and Shock charts match.

Gene Lane is in the prosses of testing the latest Baja 500 setup and will be Pre-running and racing this Next Baja 1000 with it. He had some good things to say but, hasn't given the setup a full test. The big issue seems to be 'G'-outs with ruts, rock hits during the down force making it the hardest problem for any suspension to handle. In the end we hope this will be taken care of for even the most agresive rider.

  • scalejockey

Posted October 09, 2007 - 05:14 AM

#5

yes, the big g-outs is what really get me. I wish motorcycle shocks would get some of the new tech stuff of mtn. bikes."motion contol valving" keeps the suspension higher until it hits a real bump.I've heard the fast ,big travel trucks use it in baja.

  • bigtooth

Posted October 09, 2007 - 05:28 AM

#6

I sent you the PM with some questions, thanks for the response. It sounds like the baja 500 setup is what I'll try. Perhaps i'll wait to see what changes are made to the setup. Do the setups change when you throw stiffer springs into the mix?

  • XR680RR

Posted October 09, 2007 - 05:58 AM

#7

When I talked to Borynack he said, that you do need more rebound control as the spring gets stiffer. In the end most of it had to do with where you possisioned yourself on the bike and how you ride that changed the shim stack. I got in when he was doing free suspensions for the Yahoo group. Man, what a deal! I just had to pay for parts and fluid, in the end got a perfect suspension.

  • bigtooth

Posted October 09, 2007 - 06:07 AM

#8

Yeah, thats the way I understand it also, but being new to this, I wouldnt know how much stiffer to make it. Thats interesting about where you ride making a larger difference in the setup. I guess I just have to bite the bullet and try something then try to dial it in.

  • porterdog

Posted October 09, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#9

Bruce, you got any thoughts regarding a setup that would work well for supermoto (road, not race) use during the week and trails on the weekend? I can't really afford multiple bikes so I chose The Pig as The One and I need it to be as versatile as possible...

TIA,
Robert

  • EddieTNT

Posted October 09, 2007 - 06:23 AM

#10

For trails you want very supple suspenders for motard you want something close to SX settings. Those two are at opposite ends of the spectrum. You can set it for one or the other or somewhere in between, but your clickers are not going to be able to make up the difference.

Suspension valving is always a compromise.

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  • BWB63

Posted October 09, 2007 - 05:14 PM

#11

If you are seriously carving the curves you need more rebound control. You would just do away with the cross over shim in the rebound stack in the forks for starters. Nothing worse then coming out of a corner and the suspension starts to open up to early. It's a different thinking prossess then dirt. There is plenty enough adjustment in the Baja 500 setup but, maybe not the right responce timing if you are serious (right motard wheels, rake, tires.....) Motard. Using the Baja 500 setup but removing the cross over shim in the rebound on the forks might help, then run the rebound a little lighter in the dirt? The Baja 250 setup is closer to motart use but, it sucks for comfort. If you are just looking to lay into the turn more and not looking for mach I speeds the Baja 500 setup will work great on the street. Turn the rebound so you are 8~10 clicks out and play with that till you are happy with the flixablity of the bike. The setups I list are shimmed to run the compression adjustments (they are valve bypasss circuit) out much further then normal. This gives you planty of room to push more fluid through the valve and stiffen up the compression. But, I also run the rebound the other way making for most of the fluid flow going through the rebound shim stack and not the adjustment circuit. This makes one click (forks or shock) a major difference and not a lot of lattitude. Two clicks in on the bottom of the forks wouldn't make or break a ride. You could feel the compression was stiffer but, not the end of the world but, the top rebound asjustment two more clicks in and you would be stacking big time in the whoops and hate would set in. ON the street this would be a plus. I can see this setup working for the guy that wants to have fun on the street but, is more serious about the dirt. I run a street bike and this bike has awesome flickablity, without wallowing but, the XR650R will wallow in it's stock form and with my setups off the suspension page but, I do think you could get it to work so, so if you take the time to understand what you want to look for.

Rake set for your motard setup, (wheels and tires and I would run a steering stabilizer)

Adjust the rebound so the bike stays planted till you leave the turn and doesn't open up to soon so to open up during a transfer.
You don't want the front to dive as you come into the apex of a turn.
I think you can pull this off with the Baja 500 setup. It may not be able to get rid of all the wallow through the transfer when you flick the bike.

  • XR680RR

Posted October 10, 2007 - 06:09 AM

#12

I had to look flickable up and it is actualy a turm of street bikes! I am so lost when it comes to terms used for SM and street bikes.

  • porterdog

Posted October 10, 2007 - 03:27 PM

#13

Thanks for the detailed response! Messing with that is a bit away, but I'll come back to your post when the time is right.

:confused:

  • bigtooth

Posted October 11, 2007 - 06:00 AM

#14

I've been reviewing some of the shim stacks for the forks and I think I see a pattern. It looks like
the plusher the compression stack the stiffer or more controled the rebound needs to be....am I reading this correct?
Could you touch on this a little BWB? So with stiffer springs would I maybe use the compression stack from the Baja 500 setup and
the rebound stack from the Desert Racing setup to control the extra rebound force?

TIA

  • BWB63

Posted October 14, 2007 - 08:20 PM

#15

I wrote this but, now I found that I distroyed the whole site!:crazy: :applause: B) :D B) :bonk:

After the hard drive crash I have had a misserable time getting to access the server to update the XR650R web site. Forgot the password, then I had to figure out how to upload to the server and not have the firewall block everything. It was been a week of little progress. I think I have it now......

It will take time to get everything right. I gess at tons of typo's and stuff not making sense. The site was built after some major time in the hospital, A year of healing, then more was done after a bad year of leaving the bike to many times and having different casts to wear. I have had a few good years of staying together and not seeing the doctor so nothing gets done on the site. I will do a little here and there and see if I can't make a site that makes more sense.

So, far I have just fixed the charts for the shim stacks and will check them for typo's later. There are lots of broken links now because everything had to be reloaded. The server didn't know my new setup so nothing matched. It thinks everything is new....

http://xr650r.borynack.com/

  • bigtooth

Posted October 15, 2007 - 06:00 AM

#16

Well, sorry if I came off pushy, I know you've given up a lot of your own time to put together all this info, and I know its helped many,
including myself. The shim stacks are really what i'm after. I work as a web developer so if you ever would like some help building pages let me know.

-Mike

  • BWB63

Posted October 17, 2007 - 06:08 AM

#17

Yes, I have destroyed the web site and now I am trying to relearn where this stuff belongs on the server. Does everything go into the public_html/ folder? I need a good ftp software. I am using Front Page and it takes to long and now the site is full, because I up-load into the wrong place....what a mess.

  • Black Mesa Offroad

Posted October 17, 2007 - 06:51 AM

#18

Yes, I have destroyed the web site and now I am trying to relearn where this stuff belongs on the server. Does everything go into the public_html/ folder? I need a good ftp software. I am using Front Page and it takes to long and now the site is full, because I up-load into the wrong place....what a mess.


If you use Firefox, there's an FTP add-on you can get. I think the one I used to use was called SmartFTP.

  • bigtooth

Posted October 17, 2007 - 07:06 AM

#19

Yes, the public_html folder is where things should go. I use an ftp program called leach ftp, but you can do it through a browser like Black_Mesa said. I also found this http://www.ftpvweb.com/ its a web based ftp interface.

As i'm sure you already now, the index.html file in the public_html folder is what is (usually) served up by default by your server.

  • BWB63

Posted October 21, 2007 - 09:01 AM

#20

I uploaded two "word.doc" files so the suspension info will be usable till I figure out how to fix the XR650R site.

http://borynack.com/...pension ww1.doc

http://borynack.com/...pension www.doc

Saving them for future use would be a good idea incase I never get the stupid site to work.:crazy:





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