dr650 neutrel switch bolts? houston, we have a prob.!


27 replies to this topic
  • deputyperk

Posted September 26, 2007 - 09:19 PM

#1

i remember a post about a week or so ago that i cant find, it talked about some switch bolts that can back out...?
well for the past two days of riding, i hear what seems to be a bolt rattle loose inside the engine area. and i noticed it takes nothing to put the bike in neutrel almost like its real mushy. also when in neutrel and i click into first or second it feels like if i dont click it in hard enough the sound and feeling of slipping gears that are gonna catch (they do just clicks a bunch of times like its not gonna catch):thumbsup:

does this seem related?

  • Klay

Posted September 26, 2007 - 10:44 PM

#2

Take it easy there, it's a problem that seems to be extremely rare. I don't think it is something you would feel in how the bike is shifting. It's one of those things that maybe you ought to check if you ever have the engine apart, otherwise, don't worry about it.

  • svwayne

Posted September 27, 2007 - 02:48 AM

#3

and i noticed it takes nothing to put the bike in neutrel almost like its real mushy. also when in neutrel and i click into first or second it feels like if i dont click it in hard enough the sound and feeling of slipping gears that are gonna catch (they do just clicks a bunch of times like its not gonna catch):thumbsup:

does this seem related?


All of that is normal. That transmission is not syncronized like a manual transmission in a car. When you go from neutral to 1st or 2nd you have to be firm with the shift lever. That "clicking" you are hearing/feeling is the pawls/tabs on 1st/2nd gear trying to engage the appropriate driven gear.

  • fl-cracker

Posted September 27, 2007 - 01:15 PM

#4

All of that is normal. That transmission is not syncronized like a manual transmission in a car. When you go from neutral to 1st or 2nd you have to be firm with the shift lever. That "clicking" you are hearing/feeling is the pawls/tabs on 1st/2nd gear trying to engage the appropriate driven gear.


Clicking is bad, clunking is good, don't dick around just shove it in. Forward and reverse on outboard engines use this same\similar dog arrangement. Shift them slow and easy and you will be replacing lower end parts twice per ski season, slap'em in and they last just fine. Some later models (outboards) have springs to shot'em in gear even if the human doesn't know how.

  • Zapp22

Posted September 27, 2007 - 01:33 PM

#5

I'm not so quick to dismiss this.
How many miles are on the motor?
What causes you to 'hear' the loose change rattling... do you hear it when you're first pulling away, or at speed, or?
If you are up around 10k miles or higher, and hear a noise... if it were me I'd pull the case cover and check out what's up.

the message you refer to is regarding the two fasteners for the Neutral Sender Unit [NSU]. The nuts can work loose over time due to vibes, and ultimately fall into the chasm, where if & when one gets caught in the gears, you're toast.
The fix is to dry everything out, then redo them with some serious loctite, let it set well, then you're good to go

The NSU will not affect shifting... its just an electrical switch that lights up your green neutral light

i remember a post about a week or so ago that i cant find, it talked about some switch bolts that can back out...?
well for the past two days of riding, i hear what seems to be a bolt rattle loose inside the engine area. and i noticed it takes nothing to put the bike in neutrel almost like its real mushy. also when in neutrel and i click into first or second it feels like if i dont click it in hard enough the sound and feeling of slipping gears that are gonna catch (they do just clicks a bunch of times like its not gonna catch):thumbsup:

does this seem related?



  • deputyperk

Posted September 27, 2007 - 04:47 PM

#6

96 3700 miles

only sounds rattly when takin off an cruising under say 15mph and low rpm were u can hear a bolt rattle just barely, at first i thought it was my key ring and keys rattling around

  • svwayne

Posted September 28, 2007 - 02:53 AM

#7

THE SKY IS FALLING .... THE SKY IS FALLING.

I've read one report where a NSU screw got loose enough to fall out and grenade a motor, a high mileage motor at that. I've read a different report about an owner who opened his engine up and found the NSU screws loose. The last report I read was from a high mileage rider, LR I beleive,over on ADVRider.com who opened up his engine for clutch problems after ~40K miles and found that he could tighten the NSU screws only about an 1/8 of a turn or so. Suzuki has been building this bike for 12 years and there are 10s of 1000s of these bikes on the road. I seriously doubt you have a NSU screw problem. I'd be interested to hear about other documented cases of problems regarding the NSU screws.

Check the upper and lower chain rollers along with the chain guide. Temporarily remove them to see if the noise goes away. Make sure chain tension is adjusted properly. Are the chain/sprockets in good shape? What about the bearings and cush drive rubbers in the rear hub? Take the suggestions of other forum members and be more firm/positive with your shifting. Check the easy things first. If you are still concerned with the noise then tear the engine down and see what is going on behind the covers. I doubt you'll find a problem due to the NSU screws.

P.S. big thumpers like the 650 don't like to be lugged at low rpms. The power pulses are spaced so far apart that, at low rpms , pretty signifcant shock occurs through the clutch, transmission, and driveline.

  • deputyperk

Posted September 28, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#8

thanks, i actually just slipped a disk in my back so i wont be riding for a bit, but once i feel more mobile i wanna look around for loose items, ill check what you suggested!

  • crooks420

Posted September 29, 2007 - 02:00 PM

#9

Someone just posted about a rattle in the exhaust can........ maybe that could be it?????

Jesse

  • deputyperk

Posted September 29, 2007 - 09:07 PM

#10

yoshi straight pipe here

  • dflow

Posted September 30, 2007 - 10:50 AM

#11

I’m the guy that posted on another thread about the NSU screw fix without the need to remove the clutch.
http://www.thumperta...t=553799&page=3

I don’t want to imply that this is the cause here but everyone could benefit by being aware.
For the record, the screws become loose due to material creep, a condition where materials relax under load. The NSU body is plastic and has no metal inserts to handle the torque load of the screws. Over time, accelerated by the environment (heat) of this application, the plastic relaxes and the screws are no longer loaded adequately. They are then prone to back out aided by vibration. I consider this a design flaw on Suzuki’s part easily remedied. It may not have existed in earlier production runs, brought on by a cost reduced NSU. I don’t know what the affect of lost screws or NSUs would be on an otherwise sound engine but did not wish to find out. That’s my reason for resolving the issue. It’s easy to do at oil change time and renders peace of mind. The job cost me around $1 for screws and lock washers. No new gasket required.

  • brianwheelies

Posted September 30, 2007 - 03:34 PM

#12

I'm thinking of doing the clutch before too long. Can it be fully removed without clutch basket removal? I'll be glad to gut the switch entirely!

  • dflow

Posted September 30, 2007 - 03:49 PM

#13

It can be removered without the clutch being touched. One screw is easily reached while the second requires a bit more effort. Watch for the spring ans ball under the NSU. You wouldn't want those to drop into the crankcase either.

  • M1Jeep

Posted December 02, 2007 - 07:00 PM

#14

Hey gang, checked them out today and they were on tight as all get out. I've got a 2005 with 19k miles on the clock so I thought I'd better check it out due to some strange noises. I'll check 'em again when the time comes to replace the clutch and will update this thread.

-Rich

  • bbushong

Posted November 20, 2008 - 12:49 PM

#15

I'm going to get some of these screws (Allen head, 5 x 16 mm, 12.9 hardness) at our local fastener shop, and drill holes in the heads for safety wire. Would anyone else be interested in them? I haven't looked at mine on the bike yet, but I've got 10,700 miles on my '02, and a good trip coming up, so I figured I'd be prepared. I was thinking of getting a couple dozen, as they're not too expensive. The hardest part will be drilling the heads, I think, and the expensive part will probably be the mail.

  • DR Da-da

Posted December 31, 2008 - 10:07 AM

#16

I'm going to get some of these screws (Allen head, 5 x 16 mm, 12.9 hardness) at our local fastener shop, and drill holes in the heads for safety wire. Would anyone else be interested in them? . . . I was thinking of getting a couple dozen, as they're not too expensive. The hardest part will be drilling the heads, I think, and the expensive part will probably be the mail.



Ben,
I'm in. I'd like to take care of the whole NSU thing just for long-term peace-of-mind.

P.S. It was fun to ride with you when you were down. It was a blast to see and ride another DR, and talk mods, maintenance, etc. Happy New Year!

Craig

  • bbushong

Posted December 31, 2008 - 11:03 PM

#17

Ben,
I'm in. I'd like to take care of the whole NSU thing just for long-term peace-of-mind.

P.S. It was fun to ride with you when you were down. It was a blast to see and ride another DR, and talk mods, maintenance, etc. Happy New Year!

Craig


Ooops... I think we forgot to talk details about that mod, Craig. The expensive part ended up being the drill bits. I went through about four before I slowed waaay down to drill the holes. Plus, it was a pain in the butt to hold the screws straight (need to make a GOOD jig). I might try it again when I have more time, but it'll be down a little on the list of things to do. If I were you, I'd still go in there and loctite them, but it'll be a while before I try drilling more (at least as many as I had hoped for above). Something else to think about (just came to me right now) would be a tab washer setup similar to what we have on the camshaft sprocket bolts, bent up against the flats of new hex head capscrews (5x16mm). I'd think something like that could be fashioned out of metal slightly heavier than an aluminum can, maybe. If I ever get back in there, maybe I'll mess with that idea a little...

I had a ball riding with you, too. My trip on down to Pensacola went well, again going the shortest distance to maximize the unpaved roads. The GPS only fell off once, on a very rough unpaved road, and just like I figured, the power cable kept it with me (it actually came out of the mount). I got here (Pensacola), parked the bike, and haven't ridden since the 19th of December. I need to get out there and get the battery charged up! Fun, fun, fun. Packing the bike back up to TN Friday, hopefully, then back to work on Monday.

Take care....

Ben

  • Older and Slower

Posted January 01, 2009 - 06:00 AM

#18

I'd like two please also. I will willingly pay for them and drill them myself.

Thank - you.

  • woodsryder

Posted January 01, 2009 - 06:31 AM

#19

My neutral screws were loose and the primary nut was loose. How rare is that? My friends think I'm anal about stuff,.. now they think I'm a genius for spending $6 for a gasket instead of blowing up a motor. Its your choice but I don't think its so rare. Search for a while and plenty turn up,.. and probably only a fraction that happen even get posted??

The "keys rattling" sound is most likely coming from the rear shock. If you lift up the rubber shaft bumper even slightly, a large washer underneath will rattle like crazy and drive you nuts. You can poke at it from underneath and make it rattle to confirm. Just reach in with a big screwdriver and push the bumper down again.

  • DR Da-da

Posted January 01, 2009 - 07:57 AM

#20

My neutral screws were loose and the primary nut was loose.


Woodsryder,
What year is your bike, and how many miles are on it? I want to dig into the clutch side and take care of this stuff, but: a) I lack special tools for clutch removal, and :busted: My bike is an '07 with 5,300 miles on it, so I'm not sure if it really needs it just yet. What do you think?

Thanks,
DR Da-da




 
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