Anyone Ever Contact Yamaha


15 replies to this topic
  • cltrobd

Posted September 11, 2007 - 09:42 PM

#1

Has anyone out there ever contacted Yamaha regarding covering the cost of the AIS removal kit, jetting, air box mods, etc. that must be done to the WR450 to get it to the level as tested by the motorcycle magazines.

The more I read in the forums about the WR450 modifications, the more upset I get that I paid all of that money and all I have to show for it is a platform from which to build the motorcycle that I read so many articles acclaiming the WR450 the champion of the off road shootouts.

I recently read an article is Dirt Bike magazine where they tested the KLX450 against the WR450 and they claimed the KLX to be the winner for no other reason than it is ready to go out of the box. The WR with the mods wins hands down but stock can't compete.

I can perform the basic maintenance required but have no experience jetting a carburator. I would have to take the bike in to get these things done and I've been quoted $550 to $600 depending on the dealer. That will price the bike way above what it is worth.

What do you guys think? I see that Yamaha is continuing this trend into 2008! Is there something that we can do together about this?

Rob

  • JSanfilippo

Posted September 11, 2007 - 10:14 PM

#2

Jetting kit: $60-$80
AIS removal kit: $8 (buying metal for block off plate and plugs for intake holes at hardware/auto parts store) or $22 for the kit from the TT store
PMB insert: $56
Airbox mod: Free
Gray wire mod: Free

I dunno about you, but I'd rather pay $140-200 up front and do the work in my garage rather than to dish out $700 (parts) for a top end at 3000-5000 miles for a 450x.

The WR 450f is not perfect. I'm not going to make any apologies for the bike or the manufacturer but the fact that Yamaha creates so much trouble corking this thing up is bullshit. IMHO the WR when uncorked/free modded is better than the Japanese competition and thats why I bought it. Yamaha does what they do for noise and exhaust emissions testing. You can unleash the bike yourself by following the directions here (search) in about 4-7 hours depending on how mechanically inclined you are. Worst case scenario, it takes you a whole saturday.

I can perform the basic maintenance required but have no experience jetting a carburator. I would have to take the bike in to get these things done and I've been quoted $550 to $600 depending on the dealer. That will price the bike way above what it is worth.


For starters, all EPA legal off road bikes (Yamaha WR, Honda CRF/X, Kawi KLX/R, KTM EXC/XC-W, Husqvarna TC/TXC/TE, Husaberg FE, etc) will require jetting work to one degree or another so thats a given. Also, many of those bikes (particularly the Japanese bikes)need either the stock exhaust modified or replaced and the airbox modded to allow more airflow in so the bike can run correctly.

Detailed instructions come with the JD jetting kit for jetting the carb. The bike also comes with a service manual and everything you could ever want to know about taking the bike apart/putting it back together is in there. All you need is some basic hand tools (100+ piece socket set, T-handle allen wrenches, feeler gauges for valve inspections, and maybe a rubber mallet :thumbsup: ) You can easily save $500 by doing the work yourself.

You'll find that the Japanese bikes are the most choked up of the bunch with really restrictive airboxes and pipes, crazy lean jetting, and smog pumps.

Bottom line is Yamaha has been delivering the WRs with both testicles tied behind its back since 1999. Since then, I'm sure hundreds if not thousands of WR riders have bitched and complained to them and yet they still do the same thing. The truth is they will continue to do what they do beacause I honestly believe the execs and engineers in Japan (all the companies)are tree hugging hippies and passing the EPA emission standards by a large margin (the euro bikes barely sqeek by) makes better PR. Why do you think honda and toyota are so gung ho about hybrids?

  • clark4131

Posted September 12, 2007 - 06:03 AM

#3

I can perform the basic maintenance required but have no experience jetting a carburator. I would have to take the bike in to get these things done and I've been quoted $550 to $600 depending on the dealer. That will price the bike way above what it is worth.


Learning to jet your bike IS basic maintenance as it's something that likely will need to be adjusted from time to time. I had no experience at jetting a carb when I bought my '05, but I learned, and look at me now...it ain't rocket science. The only thing standing in your way is a lack of motivation. This forum provides guidance for virtually anything you may want to do to the bike, save a total engine rebuild, so you're never alone in your endeavor. EVERY bike that I have owned, street and dirt, has required some modification to get it to perform at its peak, i.e. exhaust, intake, carb/EFI, etc.

Because of the huge aftermarket world, a bike is more or less a blank canvas the owner uses as the foundation for his own personal vision, and the manufacturers know this. Of course, there are those that like things stock, and I say good for them, but they're in the minority. My advice is to develop a good working knowledge of what it takes to keep your bike running the way you want it so you can diagnose anything that will happen to it during its life so you know what's going on. You've just purchased something that you are going to drop, crash, wreck and generally abuse every time you get on it. If you can't deal with the maintenance that is required to deal with that, then you might be in for a lot of grief...SC

  • kevin1209

Posted September 12, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#4

When I bought my WR400, I had NO experience with engine work. I didn't even know how to change the oil. But I had the manual and some tools, along with a little curiosity. I figured that if I was going to pay someone all that money to work on the bike anyway, I might as well try it myself first. If I screwed it up, I would let them earn their money. 90% of the work to be done is very simple. You need to have more curiosity than money, along with that rubber mallet from time to time.:thumbsup: Remember that you will probably screw things up, like when I installed new jets on the carb for the first time and forgot to reinstall a bracket during reassembly. So I had to take the whole damn thing apart again and do it right. :ride: In very short time you will learn that it's not that hard to do the routine work on your baby to keep her happy:ride:

  • kevin1209

Posted September 12, 2007 - 06:20 AM

#5

You will also quickly learn that a 9-year old Japanese girl must assemble these bikes at the plant because there are a few places where an adult male cannot possibly get a hand into.

  • cltrobd

Posted September 12, 2007 - 06:41 PM

#6

I appreciate all of your replies. My question really wasn't answered. Allow me to restate the question...In dealing with a company that is as large as Yamaha, has TT ever put together an organized approach to filing a complaint?

I mean, it is obvious that Yamaha knows that the WR requires all of the modifications since they sell the AIS removal kits. One person at a time complaining is easy to dismiss but an organized mass complaint stands more of a chance of getting their attention. Just wondering if anything like that has ever been done.

As for motivation to do the work myself, believe me I have researched the modification threads and am very excited about the differences after performing the "free" mods alone. I can't wait to experience that and do not mind doing the work myself. When some money comes my way I would also like to experience the bike with an aftermarket exhaust.

My primary complaint stems from a bit of impatience...the bike is new and my excitement to ride every chance I get has gotten the better of me. Having to pay more money for something that should be included with the purchase is a bit disconcerting. Depending upon the answer to my question above, I am prepared to spend the money and do the mods. My initial thought was that by taking the bike to someone that has done all of this before my down time would be reduced. Thanks to your replies, I know that it will make no difference - one day no matter what.

My mechanical experience is limited to 2-strokes...doing top ends, etc. I've even rebuilt one. I do not know how I got away with never having to work on a carb, but I have. As you guys have stated, the forum has guidance on everything - I've even studied the jetting charts. It is about time I learned the inner workings of the carb. It'll be good for me!

  • clark4131

Posted September 12, 2007 - 08:50 PM

#7

TT has never put together an organized complaint because most TT'ers know what they're getting into and consider the issue a minor inconvenience if at all. Those that do consider it an actionable situation are likely in a statistically insignificant minority.

The removal kit cannot be included with the purchase of the bike as that can be construed as illegal; having a manufacturer include hardware that disables smog equipment. The bike is set the way it is to meet EPA/CARB mandated standards. Yamaha isn't stupid...they know that somewhere in the neighborhood of 99.9% of WR owners are going to yank the octopus, so why not capitalize on that? For X number of dollars, they provide a kit SEPARATE from the purchase of the bike for "closed course operation".

It's kind of like having a semi-automatic AK-47, and a full auto conversion kit. You can't buy them together or install them without strict stipulations. But if you buy them separately, well, who's to say what happened after you got home, right? That's why things are the way they are...SC

  • cltrobd

Posted September 12, 2007 - 09:14 PM

#8

I suppose had I been a TT'er prior to the purchase of my WR, I would have been better prepared. This site is the absolute best! You're right, having what happens at home is the way to go when dealing with the Feds.

I just got done going through the carb mods. as photo demonstrated by ARin and I know I can perform all of the mods myself. Thanks again guys for contributing to such a great site and source of knowledge.

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  • luckymick

Posted September 17, 2007 - 01:00 PM

#9

1. I agree with your frustration. But I think you're letting eat you too much. This isn't that big a deal.
2. The Dirt Bike mag compro obviously was looking for ANYTHING to give some kudo's to the KLX. If it wasn't the comment about the AIS kit on the Yammie it would have been the KLX green matched their riding gear or something.
3. Buddy of mine just bought (May) an '07 WR450F. As part of the deal, he required the dealer to install the AIS, mod the airbox, and cut the gray wire. dealer did it. And, no, there wasn't a "charge" or add-on to the final price.

Net/Net: make the 'free mods' an element of the deal when you purchase your next WR. If you're buying used, I'm sure there's a good chance the mods are already done for ya.

... and finally, yes, I have contacted Yamaha. I bought a used '05 and no, it did not have the free mods done. When I purchased the AIS kit, my dealer told me 3 week back-log. I called "B.S." on the dealer (but placed the order). When I called Yamaha a couple of days later the gal "saw" my order and after a nice conversation put me at the top of the list. I received my 3 week back order 2 weeks early! :thumbsup: So my experience with Yamaha is excellent!

BTW: The dealer couldn't believe how quickly I received my parts. Amazing what a call and lite conversation can do for ya!

Mike

  • jpoehls

Posted September 17, 2007 - 06:00 PM

#10

I think it is unfortunate if you (we) vent towards Yamaha. They (we) are being attacked by the tree huggers, and all this EPA crap on a relatively low volume of emmissions generators versus automobiles (actually very minute when both sheer numbers and average operating time are factored into this). Yamaha is trying to give us a performance bike, but with todays restrictions, they have to do what they have to do. Just think if they made a bike that did not have after market adjustments. It would be a dud with no potential.

I have yet to see a plate-able off road bike that did not need enhancements. The KLX has its issues too. I would be glad we can make these changes to the bikes to uncork them. At least at this point with the tree huggers its an option, though they would take that away if they could.

Your best bet is to negotiate this in with the price of the bike. If that does not work, the after market cost should run $200 or less. The $500 they quoted you was highway robbery.

I hope you get your bike to the level of performance you expect with low investment (<$200)>

  • cltrobd

Posted September 17, 2007 - 09:36 PM

#11

I have made my peace with it. All of your replies have been excellent. I guess I just needed to vent. What got to me was the magazine article. I had been buying them sporadically before my bike purchase but read them more regularly now that I'm back into the sport. After investigating a little further, it appears that they all have a different take on the bikes. I now know to read the magazines and take what they have to say with a grain of salt. They just kept throwing in my face the fact that the Yamaha requires a certain level of modification to be the bike that it can be.
I have been through the modification tutorials many times now and I am convinced I have the ability to do them myself. The tutorials are great! Also, I have been watching Epic Ride and the other night they had a re-run on of the fully modified WR's in Costa Rica - anyone catch that episode?
I am thrilled to own the Yamaha and if I have to do some modifications to get the bike to the level I expect, that is what I will do.
You guys are correct, the way to handle it is in the purchasing process. We certainly don't want to give Yamaha a hard time about a situation that is very much out of their hands. It only makes good business sense to meet the EPA requirements and also to sell the parts after market. I will remember this for the next time I buy - do my homework on TT and make a great deal.

  • erickdj

Posted September 17, 2007 - 09:48 PM

#12

Good to hear that you've accepted to live with the fact that the bikes require a little work to get going the way they should. I've had my bike for 3 months now, and I've realized that any bike will require mods/maintenance over time, so having to do a few things to a brand new WR isn't that big of a deal. Looking at the bright side, it's a good learning and bonding experience with your new bike, at least I've felt that my appreciation has grown for the bike the more I work on it. Somebody made a comment a few days ago about the bike being like blank canvases for one to make one's unique work of art out of it. I feel that by modding/working on my bike I've created my own unique creation exactly to my liking. I'm a happy WR owner.

  • clark4131

Posted September 18, 2007 - 05:27 AM

#13

Somebody made a comment a few days ago about the bike being like blank canvases for one to make one's unique work of art out of it...


I come up with some good stuff from time to time, huh? I'm so great :thumbsup:...SC

  • GCannon

Posted September 18, 2007 - 04:01 PM

#14

[QUOTE][quote name='clark4131']I come up with some good stuff from time to time, huh? I'm so great :thumbsup:...SC[/QUOTE]

I am sure you do your best work during your "Morning Me Time":p

You Rule:worthy:

  • GCannon

Posted September 18, 2007 - 04:09 PM

#15

I have made my peace with it. All of your replies have been excellent. I guess I just needed to vent. What got to me was the magazine article. I had been buying them sporadically before my bike purchase but read them more regularly now that I'm back into the sport. After investigating a little further, it appears that they all have a different take on the bikes. I now know to read the magazines and take what they have to say with a grain of salt. They just kept throwing in my face the fact that the Yamaha requires a certain level of modification to be the bike that it can be.
I have been through the modification tutorials many times now and I am convinced I have the ability to do them myself. The tutorials are great! Also, I have been watching Epic Ride and the other night they had a re-run on of the fully modified WR's in Costa Rica - anyone catch that episode?
I am thrilled to own the Yamaha and if I have to do some modifications to get the bike to the level I expect, that is what I will do.
You guys are correct, the way to handle it is in the purchasing process. We certainly don't want to give Yamaha a hard time about a situation that is very much out of their hands. It only makes good business sense to meet the EPA requirements and also to sell the parts after market. I will remember this for the next time I buy - do my homework on TT and make a great deal.



Had you really done your homework (reading on TT)
You would know that you don't have to remove the AIS (smog pump) for better performance since it does not affect performance. :worthy:

You would however have to make some minor modification to increase performance. It is not that big of a deal. But a good rant is good for the soul.:thumbsup:

Now that you feel better you can go be "One" with your machine. Think of the sense of accomplishment.:ride: :thumbsup:

Besides Clark4131 says it's only a three beer job!:thumbsup:

  • PROWLER 58

Posted September 19, 2007 - 02:57 PM

#16

You've just purchased something that you are going to drop, crash, wreck and generally abuse every time you get on it. If you can't deal with the maintenance that is required to deal with that, then you might be in for a lot of grief...SC[/QUOTE]

Thanks SC, Thats almost profound, in a ditbiker kind of way. By the way I did contact Yamaha (thru their 800 # on the Yamaha website) about a faulty part I part from them. They contacted the dealer and fixed it for free.




 
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