Educate this old HR guy........
what are the significant differences between the 440E and the entry level machines....(I know the 18" wheel, larger tank and stator/electric, and juice clutch) but where is the$1500+ made up in?
Higher end suspension?
Actually able to mod the ignition (heard that you cant do it yourself on the entry level machines)

Just curious...hard to tell (or I am blind) from their web site


HR
'Dale Drooooolin...help me out here..!

Hello, Perhaps this info can help answer your questions. The newer X-Series (at the higher price) have the mods you mentioned, plus a lighter frame, ONLY ONE air filter (under the seat), a newer exhaust system, and different plastic/seat/decals. You can modify the X440s ignitions (PC/Pocket PC) just like the newer X-Series models coming out. The ignition system is the same! Suspension is also the same. It is important to note that the X440s models are going to be a limited production model. They are just using up the older style frames they made for the MX series bikes. Once these are gone you will have to buy the newer X-Series. The X440s is an incredible deal! The bikes originally were going to sell for the $7K price! Also important to note, the X440s models are upgradeable to allow for fitting the newer X-Series tanks and filters should that need to happen in the future. Hope this helps.

e

Heres a few differences I know of off hand.

1) C'dale re-designed the air box from the original version. C'dale calls it the Max-Air box. The E model no longer has the air filter behind the front number plate. The airbox was made bigger/better under the seat so they were able to eliminate the one at the steer tube. This is good because the FI gets more air with the new system. This is probably the biggest performance difference.

2) The X440s still uses the old check screws to determine oil level in the frame spares and tranny. E has an actuall window on the case to look through now. Makes checking oil a lot easier.

3) The E has a juice clutch, which adds performance and about $200-300.

4) The E seems to have a different exhaust system. The X440S has a FMF power core exhaust stock. I don't know what the E has.

5) The E obviously comes with the lighting system.

6) E has different plastic and graffics.

7) From what I understand the changes to the air system allowed them to move the radiator up higher on the bike making them less vulnerable to rocks and bends from crashing. Take a look at the bikes pics on their website to see the difference.

8) The X440S comes stock with tons of goodies. Suspension is the same. It has aluminum bars, steel braided break cables, talon sprokets and so forth. Here's what I think C'dale did to make the price different. C'dale had some old frames so they put them all into the x440s model (does not have the Max-Air box). They probably also had some of the old engines without the oil view window (other than that their the same engine). They then put a new exhaust on the E and put the 'old' exausts on the x440s.

If you look close at the pics on the web site you will notice that the frame spars where the oil fill is in a different place behind the shroud than the x440s. If you compare the two pics, the new exhaust is double all the way to the silencer area. On the x440s exhaust the two headers connect right after exiting the cylinder. And if you compare the pics the rad is noticeably higher on the E. These are the noticable differences in the so called 'entry level bike'and the higher models. The biggest differnces is the Max-Air box, the exhaust, and the rad is higher. The higher models may have better wheels and bars and have of course the juice clutch among other goodies. You'll just have to decide if the differences justify the price. Also, if the x440s is already this good imagine what the X440 is going to be like. By the way all these changes are the same between the x440, c440 and the E440. Anyways, I hope this helps.





[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: MADEINUSA ]

madeintheusa - the biggest thing for me not buying the x440s is the old-style airbox. how much of a pain in the ass is it to clean? i ride 95% off-road/5% track and i really want the c440 but there is no way i can buy a $8000+ bike!!! i can always get a juice clutch, big tank, skid plate and 18" rear wheel down the line, but does the old style airbox make it not worth it??? i think i have a buyer for my drz and i really would like the 'dale but not for $8000+!!! any help is greatly apperciated, thanks.

Madeinusa wrote--
C'dale had some old frames so they put them all into the x440s model (does not have the Max-Air box). They probably also had some of the old engines without the oil view window (other than that their the same engine).

Does this mean that the frame geometry has changed? I believe the biggest problems the magazines brought up were the heavy weight and quirky handling so if it's the old frame are these problems still valid? EMARacing, I think, was full of praise for the 440s so maybe I'm mistaken. I like the idea of the C'dales so I'll be interested to hear...... javascript: x()
Cool

PBR, the new Max-Air box does add a little bit of performance because its supposed to let the bike breathe better. As for ease of maintenance from the x440s to the C440. It's probably not going to be to much easier on the C. The Max-Air box is still under the seat and requires all the same parts removed as the S. The s just has 1 more filter at the head tube which is very easy to get to and service. Both bikes are going to be a pain in the ass no matter what. C'dale puts these really cool quick releases for the fuel line to connect to the tank. ( 2-5 seconds to disconnect) Next you remove the 2 shrouds. (1 minute) Next undo the single bolt that connects tank to frame. (20 seconds) Then you lift the whole tank out. As you can see this take an extra 2 min 5 sec to get to the filter. I do not consider that very hard to deal with. C'dale put a lot of thought into ease of getting to the filter, it only looks tough. My friend currently owns a DRZ and I can honestly say that the DRZ cannot be compared side by side with the X440s. It's not even in the same class. As for the price on the C? Is it resonable? Hell yah, but if you can get the X440s for $5500 like some people have, I say go for the S. The MAx-Air box should in my opinion not make the difference between $2-3000 dollars. Remember the S is a limited production to sell off the old frames and so forth but is in no way a sellout, it is a full on high end race bike. It has the new fuel injection (GP Control) new engine and ohlins suspension. C'dale justed needed to get rid of some inventory. Hope this helps. Heres a question, if the X440S is already this good imagine what the X440 and other models are going to be like?

The old frame and the new ones are almost identical. The only changes that I know of is the steering column no longer has the air filter hole and they changed when you fill the oil about six inches lower than before. I do not think that they made any changes to the geometry. Call C'dale at 1-800-245-3872 to make sure.

OK, so what is the MX? Some guy in phoenix has a 2001 MX for $4900 (used) and he says that it was shipped back to the factor for all the 2002 updates. What were the updates?

--marc

Marc,
The updates make the mx400 very similar to the X440S. Better computer injection sys. Frame recall to strengthen the head tube. They did a lot more too. I have two friends here in Cal. that sent there MX400's back and, if the VIN number hadn't remained the same, I'd swear those were new bikes.

If the guy is asking $4900 you might think about the X440S for $5500.

Kevin

i am just getting more and more confused the more research i do. can you bolt the c440 plastic and tank on the x440s? do any of you guys have the new bikes or are they all the x440s (with the old style air box)? do any of you guys ride at hungry valley?

PBR,
I have the X440s. The X440, C440, and E440 didn't even leave the factory 'till 12/29/01. So I think all of us have the "s". I know some parts interchange but not which ones. I haven't ridden Hungry Valley in 15ish years. I ride mostly El Mirage, Saddleback MX, Carlsbad MX, Competition Park, etc.

Kevin

Quote

Yes the plastic and new tank will interchange along with the juice clutch. The frame geometry is the same, only the new frame is 2 lbs. lighter. So the only difference will end up being the Max airbox, 2 lbs. lighter, and oil sight windows on the cases, and one less air filter. I'll keep the extra $1500 in my pocket thank you very much.

well.....couple of other things.....else on top of the larger tank, juice clutch, different air cleaner/intake method and design.....

Come to find out the frame is new for 2002...with the mods they are doing to the earlier frames designed into it from the get go...
add...Bark busters, skid plate, different suspension valving, full lighting (head tail and larger stator to drive it all), different exhaust and silencer/spark arrestor, 18" hoop in the rear and.....

Street legal if you choose, no restriction on the MSO if you want to plate it. (I like that!!)

Yep...just depends on how you are going to run it....either way....they are a bargin when you start peeling back what ANY of the machines come with....true steal.

sigh....

HR