Will it hurt anything?


36 replies to this topic
  • drtbk4ever

Posted August 28, 2007 - 11:51 AM

#21

Do you put any grease on the bottom surface of the filter where it contacts the air box as recommended in the manual? If not you may have had a leak in the sealing area.


I am willing to bet that the lack of grease around the air filter where it contacts the box is part of the problem. But what do I know.

I too use the white lithium grease and the PJ1 spray on filter oil. I love the smell.

That reminds me, I need some more lithium grease.

  • ETP

Posted August 28, 2007 - 12:11 PM

#22

IMHO, a fine layer of dust on the inside of the boot, regardless of your filter/oil combo (mine is OEM/Maxima FFT), is NORMAL. I've always had it (still do) on my WR400s and it continues with the 07.


I agree, however, when I had my carb off a while back, I noticed a thicker film of fine dirt on the inside surfaces in the front of the carb body. This is what got me concerned because I assume its a build up of the "fine" dust thats making it past the air filter, some of which is heading right into the motor.

Most of the responses to the original post discuss how to reduce the amount of dust, which is good, but haven't really answered the question yet:

Is this fine dust getting by the filter causing serious damage to the engine?

My guess is "not much", as long as its kept to fine dust, and kept to a minimum with good air filter hygiene.

We really need some input from you experienced guys who have torn the motors apart and examined the cylinder area. :prof:

  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 28, 2007 - 01:30 PM

#23

IMHO, a fine layer of dust on the inside of the boot, regardless of your filter/oil combo (mine is OEM/Maxima FFT), is NORMAL. I've always had it (still do) on my WR400s and it continues with the 07.


I beg to differ. A properly oiled airfilter shouldn't let anything through. I never had any dust, dirt, or anything in the air boot of my old TT-R and that bike had a decent amount of miles on it when I sold it.

Is this fine dust getting by the filter causing serious damage to the engine?


I'm begining to think a one time, fluke thing may cause the engine no ill effects. But prolonged exposure to dust is bound to scuff up the piston, wear the rings, and etch the nitride coating off the titanium valves.

  • ETP

Posted August 28, 2007 - 02:26 PM

#24

If you race/ride in real dusty conditions, I find it hard to believe that no fine dust would get thru. I just finished making some changes to my filter prep and installed a rim gasket. From now on, I'll be looking closely for inside dust.

  • DB_Cooper

Posted August 28, 2007 - 02:38 PM

#25

FOR THOSE SUCKING DIRT...STOP USING THE SPRAY FILTER OILS!
THAT STUFF IS DESIGNED FOR STREET BIKES...:naughty:
I STOPPED BUYING WHIMPY "COOL COLORS" FILTER LUBES LONG AGO.
1 QUART 80-90W GEARLUBE MIXED WITH SMALL CAN STP OIL TREATMENT.
MAKES A SUPER THICK GOOEY MESSY MIXTURE THAT WILL NOT LET DUST THRU.:applause:
NOW GET OUT THERE AND GET DIRTY...:ride:

  • Rich_in_Orlando

Posted August 28, 2007 - 02:38 PM

#26

As long as you change the oil after such rides the bike should be fine. Worry less, ride more.

  • ETP

Posted August 28, 2007 - 03:18 PM

#27

As long as you change the oil after such rides the bike should be fine. Worry less, ride more.


Your absolutely right, but I hurt my back a while ago, so I can't ride more than flat fire roads for a few more weeks:cry: :cripple:. To compensate for this, I'm taking a closer look at the bike, and amusing myself on the forums.

  • bobc1

Posted August 28, 2007 - 04:47 PM

#28

Any other thoughts regarding Belray oil vs. Maxima FFT? Maybe I should try the Maxima...although... the Belray really seems sticky.

DB_Cooper:

Had you noticed any dust prior to using the gear lube/STP combo??

I think that I will pull the airbox off of one of the WR450's to make certain that the boot/flange junction is not leaking & to inspect the carb for dust.

One last thought: I would probably change engine oil & filter every other ride, i.e., 200 miles, rather than every week if the dust was not present in the airbox.

I'm certain that if it ever rains again in CA, the dust issue will change drastically.

Bob

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  • SXP

Posted August 28, 2007 - 05:36 PM

#29

I beg to differ. A properly oiled airfilter shouldn't let anything through. I never had any dust, dirt, or anything in the air boot of my old TT-R and that bike had a decent amount of miles on it when I sold it.


What do I know :excuseme: I guess I'll just have to learn how to "properly" oil my air filter. I hope this old dog can still learn some new tricks:busted:

Be sure to let us know the magic filter/oil combination that eliminates this problem in your 07 should you stumble across it:thumbsup:

  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 28, 2007 - 06:29 PM

#30

What do I know :excuseme: I guess I'll just have to learn how to "properly" oil my air filter. I hope this old dog can still learn some new tricks:busted:

Be sure to let us know the magic filter/oil combination that eliminates this problem in your 07 should you stumble across it:thumbsup:


I did not mean for the post to come across as offensive or condecending, if it did I am sorry

What I should have said was dust shouldn't get through
Assuming:
1. Intact air filter (no holes or anything else)
2. Proper coverage with quality filter oil
3. Good seal between filter and airbox rim.

I'm going to put a bead of bearing grease on the rim before the next ride. I expect the conditions to be roughly the same as last weekend. I will post back the results:thumbsup:

  • SJMC_DON

Posted August 28, 2007 - 07:36 PM

#31

This thread is almost as good as "How to clean and lube your chain"....:busted:

  • XRYoda

Posted August 28, 2007 - 07:47 PM

#32

I was using no toil, found dirt, thought that it must have been my fault, did a real good job oiling the filter again, found dust again. Screw that stuff. A little dust is not normal as some people say. I use the maxima stuff in a bottle and check for dust every filter change. Never any dust. BTW, I wash the filter in gas, wring off as much excess as possible and while it is still damp dump on a little maxima, squeeze it around until a uniform color. Doing it while it is still a little we with gas makes the oil saturate the whole filter inside and out W/O going on super thick. Takes only a few minutes and your done.

Yoda

  • bobc1

Posted September 12, 2007 - 03:40 PM

#33

After checking & re-sealing the airbox boot/flange junction (that had NOT been leaking), plugging the AIS fitting hose on the airbox boot, grease sealing the filter element to the flange, and using Belray oil on a No Toil Extreme element...

100 miles in Red Rock last weekend showed some fine dust on the inside of the airbox boot & flange.

There is no other possible place that it could leak. The dust has to be coming through the filter.

When I disassembled my bike to check the airbox boot/flange seal, I checked the carb throat for dust & didn't find any in that location.

This weekend we are going to try the NT Extreme elements with Maxima FFT oil but it looks very similar to the Belray stuff.

I do think there is less dust than when using the NT standard element with the NT biodegradable oil, though. This is definitely a subjective observation without a valid test. It is possible that the riding conditions were more severe when we used the NT stuff.

Along additional subjective observations, I believe the worst combination was a Uni filter oiled with Amsoil filter oil.

I do not think that it is a result of not cleaning the filter often enough. The outside of these filters are not very dirty after 100 miles but there will be dust on the inside of the airbox.

BTW, we could not notice any difference in performance/jetting with any of the combinations we tried. At about 3,000 ft MSL & 90F, my WR's top speed was 77.4 mph & 79.8 mph the other direction on a smooth dirt road. My son's bike's speeds were 79 & 82 mph.

This is as fast as these bikes ever went under similar conditions & this is with the most restrictive combination, No Toil Extreme filters oiled with Belray oil.

My new plan: Continue changing engine oil & filter about every 200 miles.
Clean air filter every 200 miles unless the outside gets very dirty before
this. Use the NT Extreme filters with either Belray or Maxima FFT oil.

Quit worrying about the fine dust since I can't seem to eliminate it.

Bob

  • JSanfilippo

Posted October 29, 2007 - 11:54 AM

#34

I forgot to update this thread.

Been using the maxima FFT oil with both the stock and twin air filters and the air boot is always clean :worthy: Shoulda done my research so I could have avoided the no toil accident.

  • Thumper_Bloke

Posted October 29, 2007 - 08:29 PM

#35

Damn, i really liked the cleanup with the NoToil. But i saw dust on the intake of my bike too. I'll give it one more good cleaning and application, then if its still there next time I will switch to the maxima.

  • TheBlackSheep

Posted October 30, 2007 - 04:22 PM

#36

Here's my 2 cents........

I ride in dusty So Cal conditions as well. There is always a fine layer of dust in my airbox. Especially after I took out the air box binoculars (one of the free mods). But when I pull my air filter out, it's always clean on the inside. I also change air filters every ride/day.
I use UNI air filters and love them. I used to use the No-toil system. The cleaner worked awesome, and the oil was just ok. After 1 month my new UNI air filter was falling apart, I took it to UNI's factory here in So Cal and they replaced both filters free of charge. The UNI guy also asked which system I was using to clean my filters, because the black UNI logo on the filters were gone! I told him I used No-Toil and he said it's too abrasive, he handed me a UNI system free too! I have used the UNI cleaner and it works just as good as the No-Toil and the oil is way better. Just my 2 cents..........

.............. bahhh :worthy:

  • RJB

Posted October 31, 2007 - 12:23 AM

#37

There is an article on ADBMAG.COM that has some info on the 07 WR airbox & issues. Extract just on the airbox as follows:

"Airbox Issues

PROBLEM: To accommodate the new alloy frame and subframe on the '07 bike, the WR450F's airbox was also modified. But unlike the brilliant '06-model airbox design, the '07 WR450F's airbox is average and the bike's filter clogs up more quickly.
It's not so much an issue when riding behind other bikes in dust; it's more an issue of sucking its own dust. Literally, after a few laps of slamming dusty berms, the filter is filled with enough dirt to noticeably affect performance. Sure, the WR-F's airbox now comes with a handy hinged door and easy-access clip-in filter cage, but an easily fouled filter is not ideal in any conditions, let alone while Australia is in the midst of a 100-year drought! Our diagnosis: too much dusty air was being drawn in from under the cavernous gap at the rear of the seat.

SOLUTION: Initially, we simply fitted a layer of coarse foam under the rear of the seat, to act as a kind of pre-filter. But this only partially addressed the problem. As Geoff Ballard explains, "It's not so much that the new set-up is bad; it's just that the '06 model was so good. In any case, we found ourselves having to clean our air filters more on this year's bike, so we started to look at how we could neutralise the air pressure in the airbox. When you look at the airbox on some Suzuki models, you'll see they have a huge opening at the bottom of the airbox, but their filters still don't get dirty as quickly. So we started experimenting with a similar design on the new WR-Fs; the idea being that letting more air in the bottom would reduce the vortex or tunnel-effect through the top of the airbox." Ballard experimented with it on his race bike, with good results.
All you need to do is remove the air filter and cage, then drill four or five 20 to 30mm-diameter holes in the base of the airbox with a stepped cone-drill (these drills are around $100 a pop, so you could improvise with another drill bit or a Stanley knife). You then cut a small rectangle of coarse GYTR foam and lay it in the base of the airbox. The whole mod takes about 10 minutes. It doesn't make it as good as the '06 bike but it does significantly reduce the frequency you'll need to clean your air filters. Also, you'll notice that the dirt is more evenly spread across the entire surface of the filter, rather than being concentrated in a few areas – in which case, you run a greater risk of creating a dry-spot in the filter foam and possibly sucking dust."

..for reference, Geoff Ballard is owner of Ballard's Offroad in Australia and runs a race team of 7 WR's from memory




 
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