Will it hurt anything?


36 replies to this topic
  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 26, 2007 - 10:59 PM

#1

I've been steaming pissed ever since I found a fine layer of dust in my airboot today (noticeable after hitting the airbox with a spotlight). I wasn't going to post this because you guys and gals would think I'm paranoid, but after thinking about it I can't help but wonder if the dust hurt the engine. Here is a little background on the situation...

Been using the stock airfilter with the kal guard brand spray oil. Not the best oil but it got the job done on my old bike and it got the job done on my WR. It did have what looked like residue or grainy plastic in the airboot (since new actually) but when I wiped it with my finger nothing showed up. Before the last ride on sat, I cleaned the filter and oiled it properly (about 4 days before)using the no-toil spray...put in 102 miles and all was good...until this evening after I washed the bike.

The dust was concentrated in the right hand corner along the top of the airboot. My guess is the no toil oil ran to the bottom of the filter leaving the top portion dry.

Would 100 miles (or however many miles that the filter and oil's filtering capabilities were compromised) of the filter passing dust hurt the engine? The bike ran flawlessly (like usual) and started in one kick the whole day (actually started pretty good with the button too). I was gonna hold off checking the valve clearances until 500 miles but I'm so close to that now (426 mi) that I may as well do it this week. I just need reasurrance from y'all telling me everything is going to be ok.

BTW what would be a better oil. The PJ1 spray, Maxima FFT, or the twin air bio-oil? I'm leaning towards the maxima FFT because of what I've read using the TT search :thumbsup:

  • MaxPower

Posted August 27, 2007 - 01:19 AM

#2

[COLOR="Green"]thats a question my wife would ask
I would tell her"it OK Honey"
Whats done is done. Cant take back time. Dont do it again. If it runs then fine.Im a little surprized you are asking. You dont really want to hear that you should pull your top end do you?[/COLOR]

  • ETP

Posted August 27, 2007 - 05:45 AM

#3

I've had fine dust in mine and unfortunately found some in the front of my carb. Not good. I just made some changes like a rubber air filter seal and switched to the spray on tacky foam oil. Hope it corrects the problem.
I assume that the fine dust intake will act as an abrasive on the cylinder walls and probably not do the rings much good. Long term fine dust will sap life out out the top end and gunk up the carb.
I've been a little nervous about this but, so far no noticeable issues.
Sounds like you caught yours early on. Thats a good thing.

These engines are suppose to be good for at least 15K miles before a tear down. In dirt riding miles thats several years for me.

Years ago I learned that my XR600 had been intaking fine dust for a while. I corrected the problem and the motor was still running strong when I sold it years later to get my WR in 2003.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted August 27, 2007 - 06:17 AM

#4

Do you put any grease on the bottom surface of the filter where it contacts the air box as recommended in the manual? If not you may have had a leak in the sealing area.

  • xrmarty

Posted August 27, 2007 - 08:20 AM

#5

I cleaned the filter and oiled it properly (about 4 days before)using the no-toil spray...put in 102 miles and all was good...until this evening after I washed the bike.


I love the No-Toil airfilter oil, but the spray is pure sh*t. It takes half of a can to get the filter oily. Now I always use it straight from the bottle. It stays nice and oily for a long time.


BTW what would be a better oil. The PJ1 spray, Maxima FFT, or the twin air bio-oil? I'm leaning towards the maxima FFT because of what I've read using the TT search :thumbsup:


Didn't care too much for Twin Air oil. Seems to migrate to the bottom of filter and pools at the bottom of the airbox. It doesn't come off the filter as easily as No-Toil.

  • ophir

Posted August 27, 2007 - 09:11 AM

#6

You may have pariticles from the airfilter. They come out as looking like dust. I have an 03 with a new factory filter that done it. Put on a twin air, use PJ 1 supertackey and lots of grease on the seal. I doubt a little dust would hurt it short term. Sand now, that would be a different story.

My two cents.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 27, 2007 - 09:27 AM

#7

Do you put any grease on the bottom surface of the filter where it contacts the air box as recommended in the manual? If not you may have had a leak in the sealing area.


No I don't. But I have used that other oil with no problems.

Hopefully everything will be ok. I'm going to check the valve clearances tonight...hopefully my feeler gauges are narrow enough to measure the middle intake correctly:thumbsup:

  • BajaFool

Posted August 27, 2007 - 10:26 AM

#8

Maxima FFT can't be beat for spray filter oil. Make sure that you spray inside of the filter element as well as spray the outside of the filter. Wear a pair of latex gloves and knead the S**T out of the filter element to thoroughly distribute the oil in the filter. I second PBDBlue's recommendation to coat the base sealing area of the filter with bearing grease, (any brand will work, "cheapest for the 'mostest' " rule applies).

  • John221ex

Posted August 27, 2007 - 11:24 AM

#9

Just had to tear down an XR250 that had the air filter fail. Yes, that's a bigger issue than the amount you are talking, but it wrecked the rings, even though all else was okay (so far.) Anyway, if it were really bad you would notice a big drop in compression.
So, I would check the compression to make sure you haven't drifted too far off-spec. Then you'll know if you need to re-ring.

  • bobc1

Posted August 27, 2007 - 12:36 PM

#10

My son & I ride in the dry, dusty Southern California deserts with identical 2007 WR450's. A layer of fine dust has always been inside the airbox/boot areas after riding. I have attempted to eliminate the fine powder on the inside of the air filter box and boot with the following combinations of air filters/oils:

- OEM filter/unknown oil from dealer
- Uni filter/Amsoil
- OEM filter/Twin Air Biodegradable oil
- No Toil Pre- Oiled filter/No Toil oil
- No Toil Extreme filter/No Toil oil
- OEM filter/Belray Oil
- No Toil Extreme filter/Belray oil

I have had varying degrees of dust in the airbox after riding but it is always there. I have been changing engine oil & filter VERY frequently hoping to offset the problems that must be created by the dust entering the engine.

I have inspected both airboxes for possible leaks at the boot/filter mount flange but they seem airtight.

The last combination of these, the NT Extreme filter with Belray oil should have been the most restrictive and provided the best filtering. Check out the photos located at these links:

http://m1.freeshare....171fs203234.jpg
http://m1.freeshare....171fs210854.jpg
http://m1.freeshare....171fs211021.jpg

This is after riding 61 miles in the Red Rock Canyon area last weekend not in each other's dust.

You can actually see the waterproof grease colors that indicate the original light blue/aqua color was darkened to a tannish color on the boot side of the junction with the air filter mounting flange. It still looks like the dust is going through the filter as there is dust on the plastic side mounts that support the center filter mount.

I am out of ideas other than to completely remove the subframe, airbox, etc. & seal the boot with RTV or something similar. It is difficult to believe that both bikes would have leaky junctions & it seems to be a good design to seal the boot to the flange.

BTW: The bikes ran just fine with all the above combinations. Subjectly, we really did not notice any difference in power/jetting. Both bikes have the AIS removal kits/jetting/exhaust restrictor removed installed.

Does anyone have any ideas??

Thanks,
Bob

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  • SJMC_DON

Posted August 27, 2007 - 02:19 PM

#11

Is it possible that this is a carbon type residue left behind from a backfire:excuseme:

I too have seen this after JSanfillipo PM'd me and brought it up... I know that 4 strokes will supposedly do this hence the screen in our air filter cages....


This is just a thought :excuseme:

  • RickSanson

Posted August 27, 2007 - 04:36 PM

#12

Hey JSF!

Please PM me on how your valve adj. is looking? I'm 17 hours and about 160 miles into the bike (tight woods m'kay!). You're probably close to me...

Also, used the stock filter and PJ1, still had a slight dust layer. Today after returning from a long weekend in the mountains of West, by God, Virginia I installed TwinAir, Twinair dust cover (PJ1) AND greased the rim. Hope that fixes it!

  • bobc1

Posted August 27, 2007 - 04:44 PM

#13

Nah re: back/front fire. Neither bike has ever done either one. They are very easy to start with the button or kick starter.

Bob

  • Thebosss83

Posted August 27, 2007 - 05:27 PM

#14

:prof: A tip I picked up some where, use a 1 gallon zip lock bag when oiling your airfilter. Spray a good amount, but not too much on the filter, then place it in the bag and squish. This will distribute the oil evenly without wasting a lot of product. Hence a better, more even job with less product.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 27, 2007 - 07:43 PM

#15

Hey JSF!

Please PM me on how your valve adj. is looking? I'm 17 hours and about 160 miles into the bike (tight woods m'kay!). You're probably close to me...

Also, used the stock filter and PJ1, still had a slight dust layer. Today after returning from a long weekend in the mountains of West, by God, Virginia I installed TwinAir, Twinair dust cover (PJ1) AND greased the rim. Hope that fixes it!


I'm at 426 miles and my clearances were within spec but on the tight side.

RI: .005in
MI: .004in
LI: .004in
Specification: .0039-.0059in (or .004-.006in)

RE: .008in
LE: .008in
Specification: .0079in-.0098in (or .008-.010in)

I'll check them again at 1000 miles. I anticipate I'll have to shim then.

BTW I picked up some Maxima FFT filter oil today and you can tell its the good shit because it makes a big sticky mess :lol:

  • JSanfilippo

Posted August 27, 2007 - 07:51 PM

#16

http://m1.freeshare....171fs203234.jpg
This is after riding 61 miles in the Red Rock Canyon area last weekend not in each other's dust.


Holy mother of God!:eek: The amount of dust that I had in my airboot was maybe a 1/16 of that. (my filter was alot dirtier though)

Do you have an early 07? If so, did you plug the hole in the airfilter cage? My bike is only 2 months old therefore it did not have the hole in the cage.

  • rustyknife

Posted August 27, 2007 - 08:02 PM

#17

I use Maxima FFT in the bottle, I have never tried the spray, but it is TOTALLY the best stuff I have ever used, I soak the filter wring it out, and grease the bottom and never get any dirt inside. The stuff is sticky like honey, completly waterproof( makes it a biotch to wash off your hands if you get it on you) and works AWESOME..10 bucks a bottle and will try MANY filters, its not worth buying anything else.

  • PBDBLUE

Posted August 27, 2007 - 08:25 PM

#18

I'll check them again at 1000 miles. I anticipate I'll have to shim then.

BTW I picked up some Maxima FFT filter oil today and you can tell its the good shit because it makes a big sticky mess :lol:


Probably not. I've got several thousand miles on each of my 450's with readings similar to yours all along. Haven't needed to shim either bike. BTW - I've been using FFT all along together with a good coat of white lithium grease on the base foam.

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted August 28, 2007 - 10:56 AM

#19

Jsan im using the uni filter and oil and have no problems...i think your jumping the gun a bit. when it comes to the valves well checked them at 3000 and they were all good! its a wr (will run) 450 f (forever) :ride:

  • SXP

Posted August 28, 2007 - 11:12 AM

#20

IMHO, a fine layer of dust on the inside of the boot, regardless of your filter/oil combo (mine is OEM/Maxima FFT), is NORMAL. I've always had it (still do) on my WR400s and it continues with the 07.




 
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