650r Fork swap?


13 replies to this topic
  • tdamore

Posted August 23, 2007 - 09:24 PM

#1

Anyone ever done a swap with cr250 forks on a 650R? I can get a set for cheap and before I spend money doing my stockers I figured I may as well ask around to see if it's been done before.

  • eastreich

Posted August 24, 2007 - 06:36 AM

#2

This has been done many, many, times. All the info you need is on here if you search the forum for a little while.

  • tdamore

Posted August 24, 2007 - 09:41 AM

#3

Thats what I thought so I did a search and found a bunch about doing a swap with 450r forks but nothing about using cr250 forks. I think I am just going to sack up and send the stockers to PC. Thanks!

  • eastreich

Posted August 24, 2007 - 10:24 AM

#4

Thats what I thought so I did a search and found a bunch about doing a swap with 450r forks but nothing about using cr250 forks. I think I am just going to sack up and send the stockers to PC. Thanks!


That would be because the forks are pretty much the same. :prof: Showa twin-chambers are pretty much the same between any model of Honda CR/CRF of the same year. The only differences will be internal valving and spring rates based on the specific bike that they are on. No matter what, the USDs need to be revalved for ideal use anyway, so it doesn't matter whether they come off a CR or a CRF. CRF 450 forks are just a little closer in setup as the 450 four-stroke is closer in characteristics to the 650 than a 250 two-stroke and will have stiffer spring rates and appropriate valving.

If you want to get technical, I have YZ forks on my 650. But I only think of them as 46mm KYB bumper forks. When I need parts for them, I just go down to my Honda dealer and order the appropiate part off of an older model CR125 that had KYB suspension. I've done a lot of cross refrencing of part numbers to make sure that I can get OEM Honda parts for stuff that I adapt to my 650, even if it did not originally come from Honda.

Lots of people have 450 forks for two main reaons. The first one is that 450s were out first, and a lot of them have since blown up and been parted out. The second reason (and this applies more to CR500AF conversions) is that before the proflic increase in 450cc racing ATVs, many people were buying 450s, parting out the rolling chassis, and dropping the motors into ATVs. You don't see a lot of people having CR250 forks because the CR250s still run, so they haven't been parted out.

Of course, every now and then, someone manages to grenade a CR250R. I've got a line on one with a blown crank that I plan to pick up next month. All I need after that is a CR500 motor, and yee-haw!:eek:

  • jesusgatos

Posted August 24, 2007 - 12:35 PM

#5

I'm designing a set of custom tripleclamps for this swap, but in the first post I list a bunch of links to other relevant threads.

  • tdamore

Posted August 24, 2007 - 10:35 PM

#6

This looks like the hot setup:

http://www.emigracing.com/CRXR650.htm

Just need to decide it it is worth doing. Once I factor in purchasing the CR forks, having them resprung and valved, and then buying this kit, I am probably looking at close to a grand. That would go a long way in getting the stock suspension done up.

Emig conversion kit - $525
Used CR forks - $150
revalve and springs - $300 - $400 ??

Going to have do do some research and dig up some old threads to see what the advantages\disadvantages are. Honda runs the stockers in Baja and seems to do OK :excuseme:

  • Kenaroo

Posted August 25, 2007 - 05:29 PM

#7

That's my XR on the Emig website.. it all depends on your riding style. and disposable income.

I'm an aggressive rider and really had problems with the oem forks. I blew the fork seals often. thought the oems are great and supple, they always had a tendancy to bottom too hard (even after revalve).

I converted over to USD (2001 cr250) showas and have been completely satisfied with the results.. they handle the larger hit and steering is more precise.. but aren't as supple as the oems. I've ridden over 2000 miles of offroad with them without problems.

The emig system are good but very pricey IMO.. I like the tripple clamps but have blown the seals on the stablizer twice.

I'm talking with Jesusgatos about putting his drawings into production so we can use the foward mount UTB Scotts setup..



This looks like the hot setup:

http://www.emigracing.com/CRXR650.htm

Just need to decide it it is worth doing. Once I factor in purchasing the CR forks, having them resprung and valved, and then buying this kit, I am probably looking at close to a grand. That would go a long way in getting the stock suspension done up.

Emig conversion kit - $525
Used CR forks - $150
revalve and springs - $300 - $400 ??

Going to have do do some research and dig up some old threads to see what the advantages\disadvantages are. Honda runs the stockers in Baja and seems to do OK :excuseme:



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  • tdamore

Posted August 25, 2007 - 05:44 PM

#8

I have a scotts sub mount setup right now so I would have to get the upper triple that is setup for that. I am going to call PC on Monday to see what it would cost to hook up my stockers and then try to decide what to do.

  • eastreich

Posted August 26, 2007 - 07:11 PM

#9

The reason that I went with USDs was not to look cool, but for the rigidity. I was sick and tired of the deflection and twisting that I got with the conventional forks on my 650. I was tired of having the forks "buckle" in hard cornering, and tired of leaving half the rubber of my front tire on my head pipe. Heck, I could stuff my bike into a tight sandy corner and have the forks twist in the clamps.

I went through both regular and Type 2 Gold Valves and a SRC fork brace. For me, it had nothing to do with the action. My stock forks were dialed in great, and so are my USDs. I just hated the mushy feel the conventional forks gave such a heavy bike/rider combo.

If you are worried about the cost, or the work involved to do the swap, then don't even bother with it. It is way cheaper to just revalve, respring, and brace the stock setup. But if you truly desire to have the rigidity in the front end that a bike this heavy needs (irregardless of what Honda may say), then there is only one option: USD.

  • tdamore

Posted August 26, 2007 - 10:14 PM

#10

Thats what I wanted to hear. Now if the guy selling the forks would just get back to me....

  • jmd4x4

Posted August 27, 2007 - 07:31 AM

#11

Eastriech, w/ having 46mm USD forks cant you use the stock xr triple tree? I have the chance to get a set from a 02 cr125 that are 46mm, but an trying to find out all I can befor I do.

thanks
jmd

  • ogrider650

Posted August 27, 2007 - 07:34 AM

#12

dude why you always gotta be f-ing with things LOL if it aint broke don't fix it hahahaha PC is expensive javi at trailtricks is up in frazier park 6-700 bills and barnums is in the same price range

  • eastreich

Posted August 27, 2007 - 08:22 AM

#13

Eastriech, w/ having 46mm USD forks cant you use the stock xr triple tree? I have the chance to get a set from a 02 cr125 that are 46mm, but an trying to find out all I can befor I do.

thanks
jmd


46mm is the OD of the "inner" fork tube. On a conventional fork (such as the stock 650R fork), this is the upper tube. On USD forks, this is the lower tube. A USD fork, as you have probably noticed, but just weren't thinking about when you posted, have a much larger diameter on the top, and therefore the stock XR clamps will never work.

Forks are labeled 46, 47, or 50mm based on the OD dimension of the sliding leg. With a USD fork conversion, the most important dimension is the OD of the upper tube. This can vary between different manufacturers even if they are using the same brand of suspension. Thus it is very important to match the forks and the clamps that you aer going to use. If you were to use the Emig Racing clamps, or the even better ultra-trick clamps that jesusgatos is working on, these will work with newer model Showa Twin-Chamber forks from a CR/CRF. I am not using these forks, so that is why I went with CR500 clamps. Which I should note were not an exact fit for the upper clamp. I had to do a little machining to the upper fork tube (-.5mm) to get them to fit. I could have used YZF clamps, but there was more machining involved with that route than I wanted to undertake.

If you go waaaay back to the second article that Dirt Bike Magazine ran on the XR650R back in 2000, where they tried to make it at light as they could (w/o titanium), they ran '97 (I think) CR250 USD forks and OEM CR250 clamps that they machined to fit the stock 650 steering stem. And they did this after Honda told them not to do it.

Emig Racing has made it EASY (albiet expensive) to do it with modern Showa forks. Jesusgatos is going to make it RIGHT; when he can find someone to make them!

  • tdamore

Posted August 27, 2007 - 02:51 PM

#14

dude why you always gotta be f-ing with things LOL if it aint broke don't fix it hahahaha PC is expensive javi at trailtricks is up in frazier park 6-700 bills and barnums is in the same price range


Thats more than PC according to their website. And what would make you say they ain't broke? LOL You were with me the last time I saw my back fender when I was bombing through those whoops. I may try calling Barnums since they are closer to me and I can just drop them off.





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