yz350f??


76 replies to this topic
  • cnorton

Posted September 01, 2007 - 09:55 PM

#41

A 350 isnt gunna change the world of MX, a team can tune in as much power as they want to into a 450, it's just a matter of rider preference and the same will be with anything else they build, leave the sport alone and let the boys ride the crap out of these bikes, I really dont think the bikes are too much for the pros to handle, they were building close to 60hp 250 2-smokers before this so what's the problem here, I think it's more of a want than a need!!

  • almostinvincible119

Posted September 01, 2007 - 10:14 PM

#42

they were building close to 60hp 250 2-smokers before this


Really now...where?!

  • mn519

Posted September 04, 2007 - 09:45 PM

#43

Really now...where?!


I remember the rumor was that Jeremy's mid 90's Honda 2 strokes were 60 hp. I would not doubt it.

  • mn519

Posted September 04, 2007 - 09:51 PM

#44

Yamaha had the perfect 4 stroke engine size way back in 1998. That's right, the YZ400F.
As I recall, the YZ400F was perfectly competitive with 250 2 strokes, and even won the 1998 AMA 250 championship under Doug Henry. I'll grant that Doug was riding a full factory works bike (in the mold of the mid 80's works bikes) against "production" 250's, but the racing was not a runaway for the 4 stroke.


Doug probally had more then 400cc in his works bike, because it was allowed under that "works" 4 stroke 'exemption' rule they had back then. All the factories got 1 or 2 yrs(i forget) they could use the exemption for testing the 4 strokes.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 04, 2007 - 10:40 PM

#45

Doug probally had more then 400cc in his works bike,

That's no more accurate than the myth of the 60 hp Honda. The entire concept of the YZ400 was carefully conceived to be as fair a matchup with the two-strokes of the day as could be created. Yamaha was already asking for a 60% displacement spot, and they were concerned that if they asked for too much, they'd be turned down. While first year bikes are allowed a lot of latitude, the factory YZ400's were 400cc.

  • phildink

Posted January 02, 2010 - 06:09 PM

#46

I for one am patiently awaiting the 350F regardless of the politics behind it. I have no use for all of the power a 450 makes and a 250F is too much work. I think the 350 will be the sweet spot for many of us.

  • moto278

Posted January 02, 2010 - 07:34 PM

#47

i know this is an old thread. but ktm already has released the 350sxf. and again with this being an old thread. but from what ive been reading online and in magazines. arent the manufacturers already dropping factory teams cause 'satelite' teams or whatever you wana calll em, are cheaper to run? personally, i love my yz250f nd yz450f both. 2 totally different machines. but i like bein able to pick which i wana ride and when. as far as the 350f, im sure they would sell. but as its been said. the fast guys will still be fast and such. it was stated already but ppl should remember stewart ran away with the nationals on a kx125 then at glen helen jumped on a pretty stock(from what he said) other than suspension and still ran away with the race. and RC dominated on a cr250 against 450s.

  • twenty34

Posted January 02, 2010 - 07:44 PM

#48

The AMA does want the premier class to be 350cc's. They think it will keep the racing closer and give the mid pack guys a level playing field, but the reality of it is: the fast guys will still be fast guys and the teams with the most money will have the best bikes. A 350cc bike won't help riders like Ryan Clark run up front with riders like Stewart.


A 350 produces about 50HP (same as a 450) and weighs a good 10-15 lbs less. How would that be a disadvantage?

KTM's new 350 is a 50 HP machine, BTW.

I've heard the Yamaha has short term plans only for the 450 so you can interpret that any way that you wish.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 02, 2010 - 09:06 PM

#49

A 350 produces about 50HP (same as a 450) and weighs a good 10-15 lbs less. How would that be a disadvantage?

KTM's new 350 is a 50 HP machine, BTW.

Because a 50 HP 350 will need to be in a much higher state of tune to produce that power than a 450, and as a result, will be harder to ride (directly contrary to the AMA's stated reasons for wanting this). Such an engine would necessarily also have a shorter life span, and need more extensive rebuilding more frequently, which will not be helpful to the privateer at at all.

NASCAR pulled something like this starting back in the late sixties, when the 430 inch engines started hitting 200 mph+. They limited the engine size to 400 CID, and two years later, they were hitting 200 again. So they cut the engine size to 350 CID, and two or three years later, they were hitting 200 again. Then they went to 5 liters (305 CID) and that, too changed nothing except that it made the cars much more expensive to build and maintain.

A smaller displacement limit will also not solve the "problem" of one dominant rider in the pack, either. Have they forgotten totally what JS looked like on his 125, winning Nationals by over a minute?

The size of production dirt bike engines should be determined by the market, and the AMA should build displacement classes based on the rider's demand for them. If they feel that a 450 is too big to run SX, they should just not let the big bikes run, and see how that sells tickets.

Personally, I would never own one, because it will be a motorcycle with a small displacement engine in it, and barring some momentous technological advance, will lack the big low end power of a 450, and the associated big, wide, flat power curve. That's the kind of bike I buy, and if the AMA wants me to race, they'll open a class for me to ride it in.

  • wingman111

Posted January 02, 2010 - 10:22 PM

#50

Just as an aside from sources that in the past have been completely reliable on the subject of Yamaha works bikes,the YZM400 the Doug Henry raced was always a 426 in AMA competition.cheers

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • trailrider95

Posted January 02, 2010 - 10:28 PM

#51

Why doesn't the AMA just make the pros ride STOCK bikes???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


you know,i have mentioned that idea before(too my dad)

stick the pro's on BONE STOCK bikes,and jus let them do what they can with stock suspension and everything..

  • STROKEDIESEL

Posted January 02, 2010 - 11:42 PM

#52

you know,i have mentioned that idea before(too my dad)

stick the pro's on BONE STOCK bikes,and jus let them do what they can with stock suspension and everything..


because all the companies who make after market parts would go ape shi^ then.


why do all of you think the 450 is to much? i would love to hear your explanation on this!!!! THROTTLE CONTROL
those of you who are saying that say the 250 is not enough? you are riding the 250F to its full potential????? i think not

not here to troll or start a big arguement just starting to sound like everyone is on a bandwagon round here.

  • robg

Posted January 03, 2010 - 12:04 AM

#53

It's dirt, they are not raking it they use cats and dozers on it to spruce it up after a race. If they wanted a smooth track it would be a road race. They should just leave it as it is and let em ride. I do agree that a 350 if it was the same weight as a 250 would be cool. But The guys that are nasty fast are going to be nasty fast on anything.

2 cents sometimes isn't worth much more that 2 cents.

  • motojase316

Posted January 03, 2010 - 01:46 AM

#54

I would love to race a 350 fourstroke. It would be a great amateur machine. watch if they bring them out, there will be 375cc 390cc 410cc kits available straight up!!!!!

  • alstar250

Posted January 03, 2010 - 01:55 PM

#55

Because a 50 HP 350 will need to be in a much higher state of tune to produce that power than a 450, and as a result, will be harder to ride (directly contrary to the AMA's stated reasons for wanting this). Such an engine would necessarily also have a shorter life span, and need more extensive rebuilding more frequently, which will not be helpful to the privateer at at all.

...that, too changed nothing except that it made the cars much more expensive to build and maintain.

A smaller displacement limit will also not solve the "problem" of one dominant rider in the pack, either.

Personally, I would never own one, because it will be a motorcycle with a small displacement engine in it, and barring some momentous technological advance, will lack the big low end power of a 450, and the associated big, wide, flat power curve. That's the kind of bike I buy, and if the AMA wants me to race, they'll open a class for me to ride it in.


Absolutely positively hit the nail on the head!!! - EVERYONE who lowers displacement just spends MORE MONEY going just as fast. Does anyone watch Moto GP? Same thing, they went to 800cc and are just as fast but that much more $$$ -

  • alstar250

Posted January 03, 2010 - 01:58 PM

#56

I believe Yamaha said they would not be producing a 350. No matter what. This is all according to MXA.


You're right but actually it was Honda. The AMA asked for timeframes for building 350cc machines and Honda stated that they will NEVER build a 350cc machine and would pull out of AMA sanctioned racing completely if the class went in that direction. A lot of people believe that was the final straw in easing the AMA's pressure on building that bike, after all Honda has the biggest budget in all of 2 wheeled motorsports and are a VERY influential group of people

  • mxracer206

Posted January 03, 2010 - 04:45 PM

#57

To me it does not make sense for the manufacturer to make a 350cc machine unless they would eventually wan't to end up with only one displacement and I doubt that will happen. Would they even need a 250F at that point? For me the 450 is so much fun to ride I would certainly hope they keep them around.

As far as the pro's riding stock bikes that would certainly hamper future development of the bikes. They are the ones testing and tuning helping to make the bikes as good as they now are.

  • twenty34

Posted January 03, 2010 - 05:33 PM

#58

Because a 50 HP 350 will need to be in a much higher state of tune to produce that power than a 450, and as a result, will be harder to ride (directly contrary to the AMA's stated reasons for wanting this). Such an engine would necessarily also have a shorter life span, and need more extensive rebuilding more frequently, which will not be helpful to the privateer at at all.

NASCAR pulled something like this starting back in the late sixties, when the 430 inch engines started hitting 200 mph+. They limited the engine size to 400 CID, and two years later, they were hitting 200 again. So they cut the engine size to 350 CID, and two or three years later, they were hitting 200 again. Then they went to 5 liters (305 CID) and that, too changed nothing except that it made the cars much more expensive to build and maintain.

A smaller displacement limit will also not solve the "problem" of one dominant rider in the pack, either. Have they forgotten totally what JS looked like on his 125, winning Nationals by over a minute?

The size of production dirt bike engines should be determined by the market, and the AMA should build displacement classes based on the rider's demand for them. If they feel that a 450 is too big to run SX, they should just not let the big bikes run, and see how that sells tickets.

Personally, I would never own one, because it will be a motorcycle with a small displacement engine in it, and barring some momentous technological advance, will lack the big low end power of a 450, and the associated big, wide, flat power curve. That's the kind of bike I buy, and if the AMA wants me to race, they'll open a class for me to ride it in.


Considering AMA racers have factory mechanics that tear down race bikes (250/450) after virtually every race, seems like tuning would be a non-issue. Even Pro-Circuit, etc does this.

I don't feel by any stretch that a 450 is easier to ride than a smaller displacement bike, unless you are talking about a Honda. I suppose they can continue to make 450 lighter, but for now at least, smaller displacement bikes tend to be lighter and easier to maneuver. They are also more fun.

If there's any doubt as to the popularity of a 350, I'd suggest that you watch the KTM 350 fly out of showrooms....And the ppl buying will be those converting from Jap bikes - Yam/Hon/Kaw/Suz. They won't be able to make enough for to meet the market demand. I guess if you want to buy an 2010 YZ at a good price, just wait till the 350 comes out as any demand for a Yam will be seriously diminished with this release and therefore, you can probably score a decent price on one at that point.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 03, 2010 - 05:37 PM

#59

To me it does not make sense for the manufacturer to make a 350cc machine unless they would eventually wan't to end up with only one displacement and I doubt that will happen. Would they even need a 250F at that point? For me the 450 is so much fun to ride I would certainly hope they keep them around.

The way it always used to work was that the market determined what size engines sold the best, and the manufacturers responded by creating choices within that range. Race organizers set up classes based on popularity, and there were times when there was enough participation to have a 200cc class in between the 125 and 250 classes at local races. Other times, there wasn't.

Over time, certain "standard" class size boundaries ended up taking hold across the spectrum of the sport. To a certain extent, the situation has reversed in that manufacturers often build machines targeted to compete within various of these standard size class brackets, but for the race organizers to attempt to dictate to the manufacturers that they must create a whole new line of machines to suit the desires of the organization, rather than the market, is patently backwards, and frankly rather arrogant.

Create the 350 class at the amateur level, and allow it to grow as it will, if it will. Then, you can bring it into the Pro world.

  • husqy360

Posted January 03, 2010 - 11:10 PM

#60

the manufacturers showd by changing to 4 strokes they dont care much about our needs, they care about or money.
insted of making the 4t better, could of made the 2t (cleaner,smother,reliable etc) untouchable :moon:.





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