white oil


20 replies to this topic
  • nolzey

Posted August 12, 2007 - 10:13 PM

#1

i run in my yz400f today and all went well, i used to have a water issue but with water wetter and a new gasket its all good. after the ride when it was on the ute i found about 5 drops of white oil from the breather pipe. could this be from either combustion gasses or small amount of codensation when i put it together (it was pretty dam cold) and mixed with the oil. it is a sinthetic oil and i know i should have run it in with non -sinthetic. im about to change the after run in oil change but should i save my money for new gaskets. there was no water lost from radiator ?????? there is also a slight metalic ticking noise at idle that goes quieter when i put my hand on the header pipe (when not real hot) .

  • USED YZ426F

Posted August 13, 2007 - 05:47 AM

#2

What does the oil in the engine look like? If it is milky white, you got water in there somehow.
If it is normal (depending on age and color when new) you are probably alright.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 13, 2007 - 06:24 AM

#3

i know i should have run it in with non -sinthetic.

Really? What makes you say that? (synthetics are better ;) )

The breather moves air both directions in response to the piston moving up and down, and pulls some outside air into the crankcase as you shut down. The moisture in that air will mix with oil vapors in the hose, and appear as the few drops of "milkshake" that you see. It's totally normal.

  • nolzey

Posted August 13, 2007 - 03:17 PM

#4

[quote name='grayracer513']Really? What makes you say that? (synthetics are better ;) )

i was following motomans directions and i have herd it with car motors aswell. i would have used car motor oil but dont know if they are friction modified.

synthetics may not produce enough wear to seat rings but i dont know. or it could be the fact that you only use it for an hour or so and dont waist to much good oil.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 13, 2007 - 04:20 PM

#5

Really? What makes you say that? (synthetics are better ;) )


i was following motomans directions and i have herd it with car motors aswell. i would have used car motor oil but dont know if they are friction modified.

synthetics may not produce enough wear to seat rings but i dont know. or it could be the fact that you only use it for an hour or so and dont waist to much good oil.

It's a complete myth, or to be less polite, BS. I haven't broken a new engine in on non-synthetic oil in the last 20 years.

In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in all of these cars and trucks:


* Acura RDX
* Aston Martin
* All Bentley Vehicles
* Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, Escalade, XLR, XLR-V, SRX and STS and STS-V
* Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
* Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
* Chrysler 300C SRT-8
* Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
* Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
* Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi Evolution
* Pontiac Solstice GXP
* All Porsche Vehicles
* Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
* Viper SRT-10

These are just the ones using Mobil 1.

One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Synthetics can be used starting on day one.

The idea that synthetics should not be used for break in is rooted in this flawed logic: "Synthetics lube better, so we need an oil that doesn't lube as well so that the lubrication will partially fail during the first most critical minutes of an engine's life." It doesn't sound like a very good idea when you say it like that, does it?

Proper of the engine's main components is extremely important during break in, when the microscopic roughness of seemingly smooth parts has not been filled in with anti-wear additives and polished into a perfect match. Compression rings are not lubed by oil, anyway. They get their lubricant from the fuel, so the oil used makes no difference to them.

Use the best oil you can at all times. It ends up being much cheaper.

  • nolzey

Posted August 19, 2007 - 07:39 PM

#6

ive done my after run in oil change and the oil looked ok, mabye the slighest creamy tinge but could hardly tell. the bike has lost bugger all water so i think its ok. could the water pump seals (drive) have dryed up and seaping a little. the motor was dry for about 1 month. should i just replace the seals and be done with it?

  • grayracer513

Posted August 19, 2007 - 08:22 PM

#7

Unless you did something very wrong, the water pump seal cannot leak coolant into the oil; there is a passage in the case for such leaks to escape from without contaminating your engine.

However, there is an O-ring at the right crankcase cover, and another at the base gasket that could cause this, as can the head gasket itself. A cracked head or cylinder is rare, but possible.

  • nolzey

Posted August 19, 2007 - 09:15 PM

#8

i only had the barrel and head off and they were tested at a machine shop so they are good. i do remember cleaning the o ring at the bottom of the crankcase and it looked fine. it must be the engine sucking air when i kill it but it didn't do it before the rebuild (milkshake)!!! ill just run it and see how it goes. i used cometic gaskets are they alright?

  • 450GN

Posted August 19, 2007 - 09:28 PM

#9

cometic are a very reputable gasket company...
and i think your breather issue is nothing major... just check your oil and make sure that your oil doesnt look like a milkshake inside your motor..
-it happened to 1 of my cars and that means rebuild time usually if you see that


oh and BTW Grayracer...

dont mean to hijack the thread BUT...
so on a brand new bike... you would drain the oil and replace with a synthetic for the break in? im about to get a new bike and have heard many different break in methods so i am just curious

  • stnkbg1

Posted August 19, 2007 - 11:11 PM

#10

seems there is a lot of debate on the synthetic vs. dino oil on break in. I think it really depends on the motor and what it's designed for. All those cars listed were designed around synthetic. The last motor I broke in was a custom built race motor and we were given a whole list of instructions on how to do it and with what oil. We were told specifically to run a certain weight of non-synthetic for breakin before switching to the Amsoil we usually run. That motor was built by the same guy that builds the engines for Valvoline's top alcohol funny car so I trust what he tells me to to.

For a new bike, I'd just run whatever the factory put in it, obviously they chose that oil for a reason.

Dallas

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  • grayracer513

Posted August 20, 2007 - 06:09 AM

#11

All those cars listed were designed around synthetic

How, exactly, would you do that? Engines, transmissions, and other machinery are simply assemblies of metal parts, and can no more be "designed" for a particular oil base than they can float. (Oil weight is another matter). The specific instructions given by your race engine builder are a reflection of his personal preferences. I'm sure he's a competent builder but in this particular instance, his preferences are without foundation. I have broken in every single engine I've built or bought for more than 20 years, from stock to full race, on synthetics, and not one of them failed to run in properly.

People who believe in this old axiom have a fundamental misconception of what synthetic oil is, and how it differs from natural petroleum bases, of hydrodynamic lubrication, four-stroke lube systems, and the break in process in an engine, especially that of the piston rings.

so on a brand new bike... you would drain the oil and replace with a synthetic for the break in?

Yes. That way, I know what's in it. I would do the same thing if I chose a petro oil for my favorite, BTW. Except for the usual demo runs, and the ride around the block when it gets home, I start it out on the stuff I regularly use.

  • stnkbg1

Posted August 20, 2007 - 10:06 PM

#12

So just out of curiosity, where do you get your information? Are you in an oil related field? Do you design or build engines for a living? I know I dont, which is why i dont put my opinions down as fact. You however seem very sure of yourself and the information you are providing, so it makes me wonder who you are.

I'm not questioning you or what you have to say, or even saying that you're wrong. Just because you've done things one way and never had a problem does not mean that your way is the only correct way. Personally I find it hard to believe that a well known builder, someone who builds high HP $$$ race engines is simply perpetuating an urban myth, and until you can show me how you're qualified to say he's wrong, I'll keep listening to him.

Dallas

  • grayracer513

Posted August 20, 2007 - 10:34 PM

#13

Personally I find it hard to believe that a well known builder, someone who builds high HP $$$ race engines is simply perpetuating an urban myth, and until you can show me how you're qualified to say he's wrong, I'll keep listening to him.

Dallas

Your choice. You can research the subject for yourself if you like. As to what I do, or have done, yes, it has included 33 years of professional technical experience, some of which was building competition engines for a living. As one who has known a number of "well known builders", most of whom can actually build faster stuff than I can, I can tell you for a fact that you'd be surprised at some of the things some of them believe. A good many of them are quirky, eccentric types, and a good many more don't have the time to dig into the details of every subject that comes up, particularly if they have a system in place that works for them. If they've spent the last 3 years trying to perfect a cam profile, or the shape of an exhaust port, they may not have given their break in oil that much thought. This doesn't stop them from being good at what they do, mind you, but the fact is that a lot of them take for granted long standing axioms without once questioning their veracity.

Next time he tells you that, ask him to tell you in detail why. But here's something to in mind in the meantime; oil never touches the compression rings in a healthy four-stroke. They're lubed by gasoline.

  • mmcdan

Posted August 21, 2007 - 07:21 AM

#14

However, there is an O-ring at the right crankcase cover, and another at the base gasket that could cause this, as can the head gasket itself. A cracked head or cylinder is rare, but possible.


Is this only applicable to the YZ400F or does it also apply to a 2006 YZ450F? I am familiar with the water pipe and o-ring near the water pump on the right side but I don't remember seeing the other o-ring at the base gasket you mention above.

Thanks

  • mxrayser

Posted August 21, 2007 - 03:29 PM

#15

IMO Grayracer is one of most knowledghable people here on TT he's helped me personally with a few problems and never steered me wrong. Plus he's willing to share his expertise to those less knowing. Grays ways may not be the only way, but there the right way!

  • grayracer513

Posted August 21, 2007 - 05:16 PM

#16

Is this only applicable to the YZ400F or does it also apply to a 2006 YZ450F? I am familiar with the water pipe and o-ring near the water pump on the right side but I don't remember seeing the other o-ring at the base gasket you mention above.

It's applicable to all YZF's up to '06. They have apparently eliminated the O-ring at the base gasket. The two are #13 in the picture below. The '06 doesn't show one, but that just means they expect the base gasket to do that sealing job, because the passage is still there.

http://parts.yamaha-...ifx?d=86036,2,0

  • nolzey

Posted August 22, 2007 - 05:50 PM

#17

Unless you did something very wrong, the water pump seal cannot leak coolant into the oil; there is a passage in the case for such leaks to escape from without contaminating your engine.

However, there is an O-ring at the right crankcase cover, and another at the base gasket that could cause this, as can the head gasket itself. A cracked head or cylinder is rare, but possible.


where is the o-ring in the right crankcase ?

  • stnkbg1

Posted August 23, 2007 - 12:12 AM

#18

IMO Grayracer is one of most knowledghable people here on TT he's helped me personally with a few problems and never steered me wrong. Plus he's willing to share his expertise to those less knowing. Grays ways may not be the only way, but there the right way!


As I said in the my other post, I dont claim to be any kind of expert, and was not questioning his methods outright. Simply wanted to know if there was more to back it up than typical internet BS. He makes a valid argument, and I'm not gonna refute it. However when my team spends $10,000 on a motor, we do what the builder tells us to, period.


Dallas

  • grayracer513

Posted August 23, 2007 - 06:22 AM

#19

where is the o-ring in the right crankcase ?


You're kidding, right?

http://www.thumperta...669#post5178669

  • nolzey

Posted August 23, 2007 - 04:57 PM

#20

You're kidding, right?

http://www.thumperta...669#post5178669


sorry mate the pic didn't come up the first time. I didn't touch that one anyway so it should be right. thanks





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