What's Going To Happen To The 650R?


131 replies to this topic
  • InternalCombustion

Posted August 17, 2007 - 02:45 PM

#61

Last night my better half asked me "If I got a tattoo of your XR650R, would you love me more than your bike?".

I had to 'plead the fifth.'


I'm thinking this thread has taken a sharp right turn... :-)

Me, I'd love my Baby more than my R, if she'd just install an e-button somewhere on her person.

Heck-fire, I'll even pay for the install....

Whoo-wee.

  • eastreich

Posted August 17, 2007 - 03:13 PM

#62

I think that one reason that the 650R has not sold well, is that it is built to good. You are not going to find 7 year old 450's that are in as good mechanical condition as when they were new. You sure do with 650s. If Honda had made significant changes to the 650R, you can bet your paycheck that many of us would have been running down to our dealers to snap them up.

I have spent alot of saddle time riding other's 450s, and a 2003 can't hold a candle to a 2007, therefore, to keep up you have to upgrade! Other than BNG and a few subtle unannounced parts updates, a '00 650R is just as good as the '07 on the showroom floor (if it has new plastic).

My pipe dream:

Dear Honda:

I love my 650R. I ride it everywhere. I have made it street legal. I race motocross with it (Vet Pro). I've won an AMA amatuer title on it in the desert (H&H Open Am). I've ridden it in every month of the year, and let me tell you, that can be tough to do in Montana. I have been riding the same bike for six years. I want to buy a new bike from you, but you don't want to make the bike that I want. IF you were willing, this is my wish list for a new XR650RR. You made the last 650R at the bequest of Johnny Campbell and Scott Summers, so how about giving in to an actual customer's requests?

There are a few changes that I would like to see in the 650's future.
I want redesigned cases with stacked tranny gears like a CRF. Shorter motor, more compact CG. This way we can have a longer swingarm like a CRF, and have a normal shock leverage ratio. I want to see a stock spring rate of a 5.4 kg/mm, this way I can get a Titanium 5.8. I am tired of having to run the front coil spring off of a Buick to keep my #$% off the rear tire. With the redesigned cases, e-start can be integrated properly. With the lessened shock leverage, the frame could be made lighter to accomodate the lower stresses on the shock mounts. This would balance the weight gain from the e-start. Can we just have the suspension right off the 450X while we are at it?

While we are in the motor department, it will have to have EFI. It's an EPA thing. BUT... With the EFI, you have total control of the motor, so I would like you guys to keep the bore and stroke the same, but lighten up the crank and counterbalancer significantly. Then slow down the faster revving motor with the EFI and ECU. This way you can give the less intelligent among us a pink wire to cut like on a 450X so we can scare ourselves silly with a full performance setting (or put a switch in for the Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde thing).

As long as you are going all out, throw in a slipper clutch. This way if I want to motard it, I'm better prepared for asphalt thrashing. And add in a full 100W DC circuit for the charging system. Screw the AC. This way I can just plug in my HID light and not have to worry about rewinding (Honda, your setup on the 450X is BS: low wattage on both AC and DC circuits).

If it still weighs 275 without gas, I think that we, the paying customer, would be fine with that. And keep the price under $8000. If it has a MSRP of $7999 we will run like the wind to our dealers for this marvel of engineering and speed.

Just give me some updates Honda, or a winning lottery ticket, a lot of billet aluminum chunks, and about a year of free time!

If I say Please, will that help?

:rant: Okay, done ranting.:rant:

  • InternalCombustion

Posted August 17, 2007 - 03:44 PM

#63

What he said.

That'd do the trick.

Else, I'm hanging on to my R.

  • BWB63

Posted August 18, 2007 - 08:42 AM

#64

Husaberg came up with a bike to compete with Honda's big bore bikes years ago. It has always been flawed with mantaince trouble but, the right Idea is there it just needs to be Honda dependible, EFI would be cool, kick start on the right side and make one without a "E" botton also, (A race "R" an a DS "X" also) I would buy two, NOW!


Posted Image
Engine liquid cooled single-cylinder 4-stroke engine
Displacement 628.3 cc
Bore stroke 100 / 80
Compression ratio 11.8:1
Valve gear 4 valves / OHC, rocker arms with rollers
Engine lubrication pressure circulation, trochoit oil pump
Filter system micro filter, flushable oil screen, magnetic screw
Starter electrical starter/kickstarter
Decompression fully automatic / manual
Ignition Kokusan digital
Battery 12 V 7 Ah
Carburetor Keihin MX FCR 41 TPS
Exhaust system 2-into-1, twin manifold/nickel-plated, aluminium rear muffler
Fuel unleaded premium-grade gasoline (ROZ 95)
Transmission 6-speed
Clutch wet multi-disc clutch, operated hydraulically
Primary drive 29:78
Secondary drive 16:40 (open version 15:45)
Frame 25CrMo4 tempered
Handlebar Magura SX Alu conified
Front suspension WP USD 4860 MA HUSABERG ENDURO
Rear suspension WP PDS 5018 MCC HUSABERG ENDURO
Frontrear susp travel 295 mm / 320 mm
Front brake cylinder Brembo 10 mm
Front brake Brembo two-piston floating caliper, Ø 260 mm stainless steel
Rear brake cylinder Brembo 13 mm
Rear brake Brembo single-piston floating caliper, Ø 220 mm stainless steel
Front rim Excel 1.6 x 21"
Rear rim Excel 2.15 x 18"
Frontrear tire 90/90-21" / 140/80-18"
Wheelbase 1490 mm
Seat heightground clrc 930 mm / 380 mm
Tank capacitiy 7,5 liters EU / 10.5 liters AUS/US
[COLOR="Red"]Dry weight 109 kg = 340 pounds![/COLOR]

  • xmanwxr600

Posted August 19, 2007 - 09:53 PM

#65

The more I think about this (the more my head hurts!! :crazy: ) the more I think Honda is going to really surprise us all with a big-time intro. It will be replacement for the R and L, both.

Maybe they'll leave the L in the lineup, hard to say. But bringing out an e-button 650cc'd R replacement isn't going to be "over-the-top" enough to make the kind of statement Honda needs to make. The CRF450 has already proven (sorta) its Baja mettle, so now they will get serious about a true "RED" :p adventure bike platform.

Specs will be something along the lines of:

  • V-twin
  • 750-900 cc,
  • injected,
  • water-cooled
  • 50-75 pounds lighter than the KTM's
The first model will be a DS config, top-end of around 130-135 mph. Motard :applause: and desert-sled configs will follow later. :ride:

Maybe I've been breathing too much gas fume, but this is my guess.

Please Honda, don't make me look like a fool. :cry:




I [COLOR="Green"]agree with you....
Now remember when we fell in love with our 600.. WOW what a bike...and remember when HONDA tolds us its the last production,, we say WHAT,, what is going to happen,,,, Whel,,, the 650 arrived,,, an we felt in love with her,,, I DID,,,, and wont change it for no one,,, soooooo, what if Honda takes out the XR750R,,, Woshhhh We are going to fall in LOVE Again,,,,,Just imagine with those specification you wrote,,,,, i really can´t wait...JAJJAAJ .[/COLOR]


  • eastreich

Posted August 20, 2007 - 11:11 AM

#66

Not that any of us are immune to rumors, but my dealer heard a good one (he is also a 650R diehard)! CRF585X (Probably would be called a CRF600X). Supposedly, the person who told him this has actually ridden a production prototype of the bike.

Neither of us will believe it until we see it (I think that the Honda dealer meeting is not until October), but it does make for some interesting thoughts, doesn't it?

I personally don't see it happening until they come out with a CRF350R to replace the 450R as per proposed FIM/AMA racing regs.

Also, I have thought long (but not hard) about a 'Berg 650FC, but the main decision for me is a complete lack of dealer support in my area.

  • BWB63

Posted August 20, 2007 - 11:43 AM

#67

Thr Berg is 37 poounds lighter with more then uncorked XR650R rear wheel horsepower almost HRC horsepower. SO, it can be done. 37 pounds lighter and it has a battery and starter!!! So, if you just had the kick starter (it already has that also) your more then forty pounds lighter same horsepower! Honda come on you can get close can't you?

  • jetfuel

Posted August 20, 2007 - 12:58 PM

#68

Not that any of us are immune to rumors, but my dealer heard a good one (he is also a 650R diehard)! CRF585X (Probably would be called a CRF600X). Supposedly, the person who told him this has actually ridden a production prototype of the bike.

Neither of us will believe it until we see it (I think that the Honda dealer meeting is not until October), but it does make for some interesting thoughts, doesn't it?

I personally don't see it happening until they come out with a CRF350R to replace the 450R as per proposed FIM/AMA racing regs.

Also, I have thought long (but not hard) about a 'Berg 650FC, but the main decision for me is a complete lack of dealer support in my area.


You did see this didn't you ?? Maybe you'll have one near you soon ? http://www.cyclenews...eadlineID=11229

  • eastreich

Posted August 20, 2007 - 02:30 PM

#69

You did see this didn't you ?? Maybe you'll have one near you soon ? http://www.cyclenews...eadlineID=11229


Yes, I knew that. But to have a dealer near me, and to have a dealer that will have the parts in stock is another. My Honda dealer is also a KTM dealer. If he took on Husaberg (and he won't), he still would not be able to sell enough of them to justify having the money tied up in parts inventory. He sometimes has a hard enough time getting parts for the KTMs, let alone Husabergs.

I'd have a better shot at getting him to carry Shercos than Husabergs (the Sherco 5.1 is a pretty neat ride).

  • dougworm

Posted August 20, 2007 - 02:52 PM

#70

See now I bought a BRP kept it for a year and sold it ...yes it had awesome power in a nice chassis but the lack of an ES button really bummed me out, also it just wasnt quite streetable. Frankly I was surprised as heck that Honda didnt slightly detune that bike and put lights on it. Or at least friggen put a water jacket on the OLD XR motor and shove it in a lighter chassis! I mean for the right bike I'd pay 10 grand in a heart beat ... In fact if I could collect confidence in KTMs latest offerings maybe I already have MY bike just waiting for me. As stands, don't laugh but the KLR650 is holding the fort for me till I come up with something better. It is way under powered and way heavy but it is comfortable, super reliable smooth and so easy to live with. I prefer to ride it rather than drive my truck so long as it's not raining and I don't have to haul something/someone. My BRP on the other hand was a CHORE to ride so I never wanted to ... for example I ride the KLR 9 days of 10 to work year after year .. the BRP? I never rode one time to work the whole time I had it ...and yes it had a plate, Baja kit etc. I'm at an age where I want ONE do it all motorcycle ... I would love for it to do more than the KLR but whatever it is must get the part right that the KLR did FIRST and foremost ...why oh why won't Honda even fricken TRY? is what I want to know!

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  • eastreich

Posted August 20, 2007 - 04:27 PM

#71

Here is lies Honda's dilema. You have many different people that you need to try to please, and many different ideas of the ideal bike. Some of you all want a "R" to replace the "L". You want a great bike on the dirt, that can also be a good bike on the street. There is the group that wants a great bike on the street, yet has enough dirt to it that it can hold its own on a fire road, and is unbeatable if you supermoto it. Then there is the group of us (myself included) that could care less about the streetability of the thing. All we want is the most powerful, and reliable, big bore racebike that we can get our hands on. If we can put a plate on it (even if it is a little sketchy), that is just a bonus. We are the group who still outwardly (or secretly) long for the old days of 500 two strokes and "rip your arms out of your sockets" acceleration. This is one reason that KTM is so successful. Almost their entire product line is devoted to the dirt, so they can make a bike to fit each category a little bit better. You can get a 525/530 as a XC, EXC, SM etc. You can get an Adventure. The big knock on KTM, and this has been said by many, is the longevity. A Honda owner just can't go backwards with what they expect for product quality and durability. And I don't care what the magazines say about how great the orange bikes are. They don't have to ride and race the same bike for years. Honda has a much broader goal, and as such, has a much more conservative approach to bike design. Do I agree with that, no. Do I understand that, yes.

If Honda was to do it right, at least by me, throw EFI and e-start on the 650R to replace the current L (Call it the CRF650L), and give the rest of us a bored and stroked 450X that is at least a 550 (gotta be bigger than a 540SXS kitted Katoom). And yes, it must be stroked. We want the bottom end tourque. If it is kick-start only for the weight, so be it.

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted August 20, 2007 - 05:06 PM

#72

If Honda was to do it right, at least by me, throw EFI and e-start on the 650R to replace the current L (Call it the CRF650L), and give the rest of us a bored and stroked 450X that is at least a 550 (gotta be bigger than a 540SXS kitted Katoom). And yes, it must be stroked. We want the bottom end tourque. If it is kick-start only for the weight, so be it.


Amen brother. I have not been spoiled yet by E-start and so won't miss it. Light is good for off road! Honda could easily make a kicker version of that bike come in at 230 dry if a mx CRF450R is somewhere around 218 dry.

  • shrubitup

Posted August 21, 2007 - 12:03 AM

#73

Ain't that the truth.

Going out to the garage, just looking and smiling.

First dirt bike was a Honda XR75. Of course this made me partial to XRs in general. Took 20 years off. Came back. Bought one XR650R. Sold it and bought an RM250. Sold the RM and bought another XR650R. I thought I was heaven. Then, the urge struck again. Now I have a YZ250 and the second 650R sold too.

Not going back. My YZ is so much more fun. Snappy throttle, way more wheelies, way more instant throttle response in any gear. I weigh 250 lbs. too!

  • TriFire

Posted August 21, 2007 - 10:38 PM

#74

Bottom line is, Honda is not selling the 650 XRR's, I bought mine new last year and it was a 2004. My local honda dealer bought 5 unites of XRR's and took him over 3 years to sell them all.

The XR's will be stoped from being produced like the old XL's where discontinued in the 80s.

Its hard to speculate what will replace the pig, but the XRL's are still selling good.

  • eastreich

Posted August 22, 2007 - 10:06 AM

#75

Bottom line is, Honda is not selling the 650 XRR's, I bought mine new last year and it was a 2004. My local honda dealer bought 5 unites of XRR's and took him over 3 years to sell them all.

The XR's will be stoped from being produced like the old XL's where discontinued in the 80s.

Its hard to speculate what will replace the pig, but the XRL's are still selling good.


Depends where you are at. My dealer sells at least 3 R's, maybe 4, to each L.

But this could also be skewed this way due to the ease of plating a bike in MT.

  • Scotty Breauxman

Posted August 22, 2007 - 12:34 PM

#76

:thumbsup:

Ah yes, but the 1000 is a much different race, especially when it runs to La Paz. I've always been a Honda fan, but I think that this year could be the year that Honda gets dealt the blow. 450X or 650R, it's the riders that win this thing much more so than the bike. I would imagine that the riders would prefer the 650R for the 1000 rather than the 450X. At least that's what they said a year or two ago. With that said, Honda has very good riders, well prepared, and they do their homework. KTM had a very good team for the 500 and scarcely little time to get a ride on the bike before they had to race it (I think less than a day from what I have heard). They had some problems, but still finished 2nd as they did a couple of years ago on the KTM 700. A longer race on some more open roads could really prove to be the difference. And with Childress and Cody gone, I'm not sure Honda has enough horses left in the stable to even field a solid B team. So a break down here or a mishap there could change everything.

I will still pull for a Honda win, but if it takes a loss to a KTM 690 (or a good scare) to get Honda to produce another big bore, that will ultimately be good for all of us.



Very well said

  • hondacrf150f1

Posted August 22, 2007 - 03:06 PM

#77

Bottom line is, Honda is not selling the 650 XRR's, I bought mine new last year and it was a 2004. My local honda dealer bought 5 unites of XRR's and took him over 3 years to sell them all.

The XR's will be stoped from being produced like the old XL's where discontinued in the 80s.

Its hard to speculate what will replace the pig, but the XRL's are still selling good.


there popular in some parts of the country, the dealer i bought myn from in Lennox Mass said they had never seen one before, and these guys have been in bussiness sence before the 650R was invented. The XRR just isant very popular up here in New England. But im glad ive got myn, and i always will have it.

There fricken amazing:ride:

  • dezracerE

Posted August 22, 2007 - 03:10 PM

#78

Ah yes, but the 1000 is a much different race, especially when it runs to La Paz. I've always been a Honda fan, but I think that this year could be the year that Honda gets dealt the blow. 450X or 650R, it's the riders that win this thing much more so than the bike. I would imagine that the riders would prefer the 650R for the 1000 rather than the 450X. At least that's what they said a year or two ago. With that said, Honda has very good riders, well prepared, and they do their homework. KTM had a very good team for the 500 and scarcely little time to get a ride on the bike before they had to race it (I think less than a day from what I have heard). They had some problems, but still finished 2nd as they did a couple of years ago on the KTM 700. A longer race on some more open roads could really prove to be the difference. And with Childress and Cody gone, I'm not sure Honda has enough horses left in the stable to even field a solid B team. So a break down here or a mishap there could change everything.

I will still pull for a Honda win, but if it takes a loss to a KTM 690 (or a good scare) to get Honda to produce another big bore, that will ultimately be good for all of us.


I agree.
If I was going to race it this year, with both bikes race ready- I would choose the 650.
Much better from a privateer standpoint and for me- much better on the long runs. The hardest part is starting it after a getoff or pit, and lifting it on the stand for a pit. (seems very few want to help you do that with the pig).
Ktm is pushing the envelope with the 690.
We'll see about Honda.

  • OC DILBERT

Posted August 22, 2007 - 03:11 PM

#79

My riding buddy has a 2007 KTM 525 that is amazing, he smokes my DRZ. I think that there will be something better comming in the future for big red.

On a side note I heard the 2008 CRF 450 is going to be fuel injected and might have a electronic steering stabalizer.

  • TMD

Posted August 24, 2007 - 11:28 PM

#80

You just can't buy them here in the UK anymore. They discontinued it last year here. I have had 2 and my dad had one. I wanted to get another but after ringing Honda UK and them looking into it they came back to say no dealers had any left. On the used market there were few nice ones about when I was looking - most had been heavily modded.

I bought a KTM690 instead (I wanted another XR to supermoto it anyhow)

Honda should relaunch the XR650R but give it an electric start, upside down forks, a digital dash and re-market it again. It would sell. Here the XR's were not so popular because the lack of e-start and dealers did not seem to push them or know much about them.





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