Nitrogen


78 replies to this topic
  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 02:39 PM

#21

race teams still choose nitrogen over compressed air for a reason. the pressure will increase with heat, but not as quickly or as much as comp. air. is this not true?

  • cleonard

Posted August 02, 2007 - 03:02 PM

#22

race teams still choose nitrogen over compressed air for a reason. the pressure will increase with heat, but not as quickly or as much as comp. air. is this not true?


All I have ever seen are the marketing materials from the companies that sell the Nitrogen generation systems. As marketing materials they tend use extreme cases that show the products in the best possible light.

In normal use dirt bike tires just don't get that hot. I love hauling ass across the dry lakes, but I have never noticed a lot of heat in my tires. Some heat yes, but never getting really hot.

I'd love to see a real world comparison where one vehicle has nitrogen and another air. Run the same course and compare the pressures.

On my car and truck I have very little air loss when I use good sealing metal valve caps. I only put air in about once a year. I check it but they don't need any. Well, except for the tire that got a nail in it. The plug doesn't seal 100% and it gets some air every month.

I found this more or less unbiased article. http://www.aftermark...mers/mike/.html

  • Huffa 2

Posted August 02, 2007 - 03:45 PM

#23

"I'd love to see a real world comparison where one vehicle has nitrogen and another air. Run the same course and compare the pressures."

Me too cleonard !

I just did about a 20 minute search, looking for ANY info on tests where someone ran a vehicle with air in one pair and nitrigen in the other, nothing, zilch.

Tons of info on it, TONS, but very odd that no one ever did any like that ....... sooooo, since martin brought this whole thing up, I vote for him to get a cheap, (your company have a lender Martin?) tire heat sensor, if there is such a device for cheap, fill a pair of his car tires with air and let us know what happens.

How about it Martin ? :applause:

The thing is, our tires have tubes in them, car tires don't, so would that effect them different at all as far as running cool?

It would benifit me a bit more then you dirt rider guys, I think??, because I'm 90% street all the time so it looks quite inviting, but really, I'd like to see this done 1st.

OR, if he has a buddy with same bike, same tire, that would make it pretty easy then ?

The machines you use martim, are they equipped as stated here ?

"Analyzers: It is common knowledge in our industry, and an irrefutable scientific fact, that 95% + purity in the serviced tire is mandatory to afford the widely advertised benefits of nitrogen inflation, yet many generator units do not have onboard purity analyzers and some do not even provide handheld units to test the in-tire purity. Analyzers are pricey, but essential. As nitrogen inflation gains popularity the public WILL become more knowledgeable and maintaining and providing proper purity will become a necessity -- not a matter of choice. Again, don’t confuse economical with incomplete."

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:02 PM

#24

"I'd love to see a real world comparison where one vehicle has nitrogen and another air. Run the same course and compare the pressures."

Me too cleonard !

I just did about a 20 minute search, looking for ANY info on tests where someone ran a vehicle with air in one pair and nitrigen in the other, nothing, zilch.

Tons of info on it, TONS, but very odd that no one ever did any like that ....... sooooo, since martin brought this whole thing up, I vote for him to get a cheap, (your company have a lender Martin?) tire heat sensor, if there is such a device for cheap, fill a pair of his car tires with air and let us know what happens.

How about it Martin ? :applause:

The thing is, our tires have tubes in them, car tires don't, so would that effect them different at all as far as running cool?

It would benifit me a bit more then you dirt rider guys, I think??, because I'm 90% street all the time so it looks quite inviting, but really, I'd like to see this done 1st.

OR, if he has a buddy with same bike, same tire, that would make it pretty easy then ?

The machines you use martim, are they equipped as stated here ?

"Analyzers: It is common knowledge in our industry, and an irrefutable scientific fact, that 95% + purity in the serviced tire is mandatory to afford the widely advertised benefits of nitrogen inflation, yet many generator units do not have onboard purity analyzers and some do not even provide handheld units to test the in-tire purity. Analyzers are pricey, but essential. As nitrogen inflation gains popularity the public WILL become more knowledgeable and maintaining and providing proper purity will become a necessity -- not a matter of choice. Again, don’t confuse economical with incomplete."


first off, cleonard- very interesting website you linked! i may go deeper into the site!

second huffa you have brought up a very interesting idea! heres what im thinking and you tell me what you think!

i drive a 1995 toyota T100, 4-5 inch lift, 295 85 16 tires. maybe i will put my usual 40 psi of nitrogen in left front/left rear. then 40 psi of compressed air in both right side f&r tires. the best way to measure the tires i can think of is with my infra-red temp gun. i will check tire temp after my 22 mile drive to and from work. what you think?

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:05 PM

#25

and yes huffa our machine sets to 95% purity. you can get a higher percentage of purity by running through another cycle of filling.

  • Huffa 2

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:08 PM

#26

first off, cleonard- very interesting website you linked! i may go deeper into the site!

second huffa you have brought up a very interesting idea! heres what im thinking and you tell me what you think!

i drive a 1995 toyota T100, 4-5 inch lift, 295 85 16 tires. maybe i will put my usual 40 psi of nitrogen in left front/left rear. then 40 psi of compressed air in both right side f&r tires. the best way to measure the tires i can think of is with my infra-red temp gun. i will check tire temp after my 22 mile drive to and from work. what you think?


Sounds great! :thumbsup:

Your the one with a few buddies with xrl's also, any happen to be running same tire(s) as you with about the same amount of tread? That test could be done just riding side by side for so many miles. That would be most interesting also.

But yea, for sure, try it on your toy, most anxious to hear the results!!

You don't have a 3.0 (:thumbsdn: :banghead: :rant: :naughty: :foul: ) motor in that do you?

  • Heckler

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:18 PM

#27

Sweet, I have about 6 tanks in the other room right now..

Oh and if any of you guys decide to go try this on your own make sure your tank is high pressure, at low pressure it is a cryogenic liquid..

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:26 PM

#28

Sounds great! :thumbsup:

Your the one with a few buddies with xrl's also, any happen to be running same tire(s) as you with about the same amount of tread? That test could be done just riding side by side for so many miles. That would be most interesting also.

But yea, for sure, try it on your toy, most anxious to hear the results!!

You don't have a 3.0 (:thumbsdn: :banghead: :rant: :naughty: :foul: ) motor in that do you?


one guy is running stock tires, my dad has the same mt21's as me but mine are worn-he doesnt ride to and from work as much as me! no i got the first year for the 3.4. a killer little engine, and bullet proof!:thumbsup:

  • CTXr650L

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:27 PM

#29

just curious, how much pressure they run in those jets?


well Cleonard answered the question as to how much pressure an aircraft tire normally runs, but ive seen what can happen when someone doesnt know how to operate the equipment to fill the tire correctly.

at the airport i worked at one of the pilots decided to fill a tire on a lear 35 by himself. not knowing how to work the nitrogen bottle regulator correctly he turned it full open.

well since a nitrogen bottle can hold upwards of 2000psi and the tire is only supposed to hold 200-300, the tire lost. he happened to be kneeling next to it when it blew off the rim taking his leg off in the process.

guess thats why we had to be certified on all that sort of equipment before we could use it, he must have slept through the class.

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:28 PM

#30

DAMMIT! i keep submitting my replies before my thought process is done! sorry! i will most likely try the first test tommorrow on my commute home, will post results tommorrow after work.

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  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:30 PM

#31

Sweet, I have about 6 tanks in the other room right now..

Oh and if any of you guys decide to go try this on your own make sure your tank is high pressure, at low pressure it is a cryogenic liquid..


our nitrogen generator takes care of this. although this brings to mind a more sinister thought!:eek: cryogenics anyone!:busted:

  • Huffa 2

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:35 PM

#32

Just thought of something that I could do.......

My wifes 07 Acura MDX has the tire air monitoring system on it, that would work great for testing the pressure build up although that's exactly what you are doing anyway but just sort of neat that you can watch the change as you drive or hopefully, with the nitro, hardly any change.

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:44 PM

#33

Just thought of something that I could do.......

My wifes 07 Acura MDX has the tire air monitoring system on it, that would work great for testing the pressure build up although that's exactly what you are doing anyway but just sort of neat that you can watch the change as you drive or hopefully, with the nitro, hardly any change.


ya most all newer toyotas has tire pressure warning systems. i can actually hook up our panasonic tough book laptop that has toyotas "Techstream" diagnosis system and see what each sensor see's as far as temperature and pressure. be nice and easy if i could convince my boss or a customer to loan me a new toyota for the night!:busted:

  • Huffa 2

Posted August 02, 2007 - 04:54 PM

#34

ya most all newer toyotas has tire pressure warning systems. i can actually hook up our panasonic tough book laptop that has toyotas "Techstream" diagnosis system and see what each sensor see's as far as temperature and pressure. be nice and easy if i could convince my boss or a customer to loan me a new toyota for the night!:busted:


Well what the heck, to get a loaner, tell him that's a major selling point for the product unless of course you get poor results :bonk:

  • martinfan30

Posted August 02, 2007 - 05:21 PM

#35

that is a good point! it will either make boss happy, or piss em off if the results dont prove the point. you see, the nitrogen generator cost him 18,000 bucks!!!!:crazy:

  • XR650L_Dave

Posted August 03, 2007 - 08:23 AM

#36

Put me down in the "whatever the actual physics, I'm extremely sceptical that filling my bikes, or my cars, tires with dry nitrogen will yield any discernable result in any of my real-life uses".

Pressure fluctuations? I go from 130 degree asphalt to 50 degree mountain streams in a very short amount of time. That'll give you some fluctations.

Dave

  • Denn10

Posted August 03, 2007 - 09:22 AM

#37

we need someone with Nitrogen and a laser heat gun to do us a test with Nitrogen VS Air and check tire temps and psi so well have fact whos goona volunteer??

  • martinfan30

Posted August 03, 2007 - 09:55 AM

#38

we need someone with Nitrogen and a laser heat gun to do us a test with Nitrogen VS Air and check tire temps and psi so well have fact whos goona volunteer??


this is exactly what im going to do today with the temp gun. just im going to use my T100 for the first test. 40 psi of nitrogen in left side tires, 40 psi of shop air in right side. i will drive 22 miles to home, check pavement temp, tire temp in several places, and before and after pressure.

  • cleonard

Posted August 03, 2007 - 09:58 AM

#39

I can see why racers use nitrogen. From looking around it looks like race tires like to be as high as 210F. If liquid water gets in the tire at fill time it could increase the pressure as much as 14psi if there is enough water in there. With dry air or dry nitrogen that pressure increase would not be there. In a world where they adjust the pressure in 1/4 psi increments a few psi from some water kills you.

Another reason that race teams like it is you just wheel up the tank and fill the tire. No electricity needed. Easy simple.

  • Denn10

Posted August 03, 2007 - 10:22 AM

#40

HOOK IT UP martin!!! vegas style...do some donuts around the strip that ell get some heat in the tires LMAO





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