06 450 handles badly: what triple clamps?


97 replies to this topic
  • Ga426owner

Posted July 29, 2007 - 07:38 AM

#21

One word: Yellow :ride:




no 2 words.......
Yellow and durability...that is why I am riding a 06 yellow yami SE:thumbsup:

play nice CrusRuss.....

  • Ga426owner

Posted July 29, 2007 - 07:44 AM

#22

From all the stuff I have tried on 05-06-07 Yamaha's the clamps were not the fix for your problem. After trying everything from links to clamps I found that the correct springs and suspension valving / set-up were the answer. I actually found that clamps may have made the bike turn better in some situations but overall made it handle in a way I did not like. Don't know where to tell you to send your suspension as I do my own. These forks need serviced often as the oil in the cartridge gets dirty fast. If you get the mid-valve in the forks set-up correctly and the sag at 95-100 mm you will not have any compaints with the YZ.


well this is debatable.....I hope you realize, I tried everything with the suspension (midvalve)and did not get the bike where I needed it. Clicker settings, revalves springs.....I settled with triple clamps(06) and link (03) with suspension matched to these parts.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 29, 2007 - 08:16 AM

#23

I don't think the 24mm will make any noticeable difference. Its only a 1mm change from the stock offset. If your going to drop any coin on clamps I would do to the 22mm.

You'd be wrong. Doug Dubach tested a wide range of offsets for the '06, and selected 24mm as his favorite. Applied Racing did a blind test with a group of good test riders. They had no idea which offset they were riding ant any given time, or in what order they tested them. That group also chose the 24's.

Your logic seems based on "if some is good, more is better". Sometimes more is too much, and some is just right.

  • Ga426owner

Posted July 29, 2007 - 08:34 AM

#24

You'd be wrong. Doug Dubach tested a wide range of offsets for the '06, and selected 24mm as his favorite. Applied Racing did a blind test with a group of good test riders. They had no idea which offset they were riding ant any given time, or in what order they tested them. That group also chose the 24's.

Your logic seems based on "if some is good, more is better". Sometimes more is too much, and some is just right.


I agree and too much of a difference 17-22 mm may cause more issues other than better cornering

  • whipit1k

Posted July 29, 2007 - 01:02 PM

#25

so what is the stock offset? 25??

  • cowboyona426

Posted July 29, 2007 - 01:05 PM

#26

For the 06 yes 25mm is stock.

  • twenty34

Posted July 29, 2007 - 01:41 PM

#27

You'd be wrong. Doug Dubach tested a wide range of offsets for the '06, and selected 24mm as his favorite. Applied Racing did a blind test with a group of good test riders. They had no idea which offset they were riding ant any given time, or in what order they tested them. That group also chose the 24's.

Your logic seems based on "if some is good, more is better". Sometimes more is too much, and some is just right.


Why would he be wrong? Perhaps you are wrong here. One blind test by Applied doesn't mean much to me. Have you tried offsets for an 06 to conclude that he is wrong?

Do you know that Chad Reed and Team Yamaha has problems with their offsets? Did you know that for Supercross they are running sub 18mm offsets to get the bikes to turn? 1mm might be fine for some, as in this "blind" test, but if they were all rookie riders or haven't spent much time on the YZ, it means very little.

Everything is relative, but my sources indicate that 22 isn't the right number either. On a side note, isn't Dubach sponsored by Applied?:blah: :blah: :blah:

  • grayracer513

Posted July 29, 2007 - 02:07 PM

#28

Dave Dubach does, to the best of my knowledge, have a financial arrangement of some kind with Applied, yes. If you are suggesting that he is using 24mm offsets because that's what they sell, you have it backward. They make them because that's what Dr.D told them the best solution was. Whatever else can be said about the man, he has a very long familiarity with YZF's, and is one of the absolute best test riders of any kind of equipment that has ever lived. The suggestion that a serious manufacturer would contract with a group of "rookie" riders is also pretty silly.

What a top level pro rider does for SX and what works for MX and general riding are two different things. Besides, having ridden a number of different offsets on a number of motorcycles, I can tell you that there's a downside to the increased trail you get with a decreased offset. A top level pro is going to be more able to deal with the misbehavior he encounters and take it as a trade-off for the increased willingness of the steering head to pivot when leaned. An increase in trail will not, in and of itself, reduce the tendency of a motorcycle to push on turn-in, either.

And while I haven't had the opportunity yet to try 24mm on the '06, I have tried the 22's. Didn't like them. Sorry. You might want to ask Ga426owner his opinion of the 24's, though.

  • whipit1k

Posted July 29, 2007 - 02:09 PM

#29

Dave Dubach does, to the best of my knowledge, have a financial arrangement of some kind with Applied, yes. If you are suggesting that he is using 24mm offsets because that's what they sell, you have it backward. They make them because that's what Dr.D told them the best solution was. Whatever else can be said about the man, he has a very long familiarity with YZF's, and is one of the absolute best test riders of any kind of equipment that has ever lived. The suggestion that a serious manufacturer would contract with a group of "rookie" riders is also pretty silly.

What a top level pro rider does for SX and what works for MX and general riding are two different things. Besides, having ridden a number of different offsets on a number of motorcycles, I can tell you that there's a downside to the increased trail you get with a decreased offset. A top level pro is going to be more able to deal with the misbehavior he encounters and take it as a trade-off for the increased willingness of the steering head to pivot when leaned. An increase in trail will not, in and of itself, reduce the tendency of a motorcycle to push on turn-in, either.

And while I haven't had the opportunity yet to try 24mm on the '06, I have tried the 22's. Didn't like them. Sorry.


what did you dislike about the 22's?

  • twenty34

Posted July 29, 2007 - 02:59 PM

#30

You're a smart guy GR, so you wouldn't agree there are a LOT of gimmicky Moto-X products out there, correct? Float-bowls, etc. I know I have a few in my garage. :thumbsup:

Is it possible, just possible, that 24mm offsets being supplied by aftermarket companies perform only marginally better than 25mm? Is this probable?

P.S. I thought Dubach road with 27mm offsets? Also, as I understand it, he rides with his suspension so stiff than almost anyone else that regardless of what offsets he uses, they wouldn't really apply to most of us that ride.

I'm certainly not the expert on this topic, but I have done some due diligence and have a new perspective on what the "correct" offset should be.

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  • Ga426owner

Posted July 29, 2007 - 03:35 PM

#31

You're a smart guy GR, so you wouldn't agree there are a LOT of gimmicky Moto-X products out there, correct? Float-bowls, etc. I know I have a few in my garage. :thumbsup:

Is it possible, just possible, that 24mm offsets being supplied by aftermarket companies perform only marginally better than 25mm? Is this probable?

P.S. I thought Dubach road with 27mm offsets? Also, as I understand it, he rides with his suspension so stiff than almost anyone else that regardless of what offsets he uses, they wouldn't really apply to most of us that ride.

I'm certainly not the expert on this topic, but I have done some due diligence and have a new perspective on what the "correct" offset should be.


Rick your opinion of the "correct" offset will be different than mine I assure you. I think Dubach recommends 24mm to the masses This is the market he sells to and recommends products to - I rode 22 and 24s and prefered 24s. I think that this is not a "one size fits all solution". It comes down to what works best for you. No one here rides like Chad Reed so I don't give a crap what he uses....it won't work for either of us. RIGHT?
Also AX/SX setup is totally diff than motocross...18mm are crazy and would plain sux I think for Mx....well unless I start keeping up and passing Chad Reed....:naughty:

Also don't be so quick to say the floatbowl is a gimic....I assume you are talking about R&Ds product. Remember there are a lot of folks that believe the ZipTy mod is a gimic too...


peace man..... I need a different offset :banghead:

  • twenty34

Posted July 29, 2007 - 04:01 PM

#32

I don't know what the magic numbers are, however, I'm discovering that 22 and 24 may still not be enough. This said, I guess we are in agreement.

As for the Reed comment and SX vs MX debate on offsets, I used his SX offset as an example only. Their MX'rs are more aggressive than 22mm just so you know. :D

  • grayracer513

Posted July 29, 2007 - 04:23 PM

#33

what did you dislike about the 22's?

They made the bike a bit prone to tucking under, and also to climbing out of ruts to the inside. And, since I'm used to leaning the bike lower than me (to get my '03 to turn in without washing), it meant that I had to hold the bike back from turning in too quickly. Increasing trail in general beyond a certain point also exaggerates the bike's tendency to dig at ruts in sand instead of tracking through them, and for the front wheel to get kicked out to one side when you hit something sharp edged at an angle.

You're a smart guy GR, so you wouldn't agree there are a LOT of gimmicky Moto-X products out there, correct?

There certainly are. I've thought about marketing a line of slick looking but functionally useless products under the name "Black Feather Racing Equipment". Could work.

Is it possible, just possible, that 24mm offsets being supplied by aftermarket companies perform only marginally better than 25mm? Is this probable?

That was my first intellectual reaction, too. It simply did not seem as though that much would be noticeable, or a very big improvement. However, I do know that the '06 is very sensitive to small changes in geometry, even to the point that the choice of handlebars can make the bike act differently. Comments from people who have ridden the 24's on an '06 indicated that they were surprised at the difference it made, and mostly, they liked it.

I thought Dubach road with 27mm offsets? Also, as I understand it, he rides with his suspension so stiff than almost anyone else that regardless of what offsets he uses, they wouldn't really apply to most of us that ride.

Dubach rides the '06 250F with 27's on it, but that's a whole different thing. On the 450, he uses 24's. As to his suspension being too stiff for the rest of us, that's a pretty typical characteristic of a pro bike.

  • twenty34

Posted July 29, 2007 - 04:50 PM

#34

I've thought about marketing a line of slick looking but functionally useless products under the name "Black Feather Racing Equipment". Could work.


LOL. My future endeavor will be called Pancho Industries. I think we may be competing with each other soon. :busted:

This has been a good thread IMHO even though there may be some disagreement here and there. Since the YZ is so sensitive to sag, adjustments here along with triple clamps would likely be needed, I would think.

There's one brand that I've pretty much decided on that is race tested and designed by racers that I trust. They have pretty good insight into the industry, myths vs realities, etc. The only problem is that after reading the Jimmy Button interview in Racer X (August) and seeing the Magoo video, I have elected to buy a Leatt brace instead of focusing on TClamps right now. I just did and will not look back.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but this video speaks volumes.

http://www.motocross...59C7C88D804CE3F

  • cowboyona426

Posted July 29, 2007 - 05:05 PM

#35

Nice link rickk. By chance, do you happen to know if "Flyin Mike Brown" was the guy injured in 00 trying to jump 2 semi trailers stacked on eachother? If so, I was there when it happened- not a pretty sight to say the least. Also OT, but whatever happened to Jimmy Button?

  • twenty34

Posted July 29, 2007 - 05:15 PM

#36

Nice link rickk. By chance, do you happen to know if "Flyin Mike Brown" was the guy injured in 00 trying to jump 2 semi trailers stacked on eachother? If so, I was there when it happened- not a pretty sight to say the least. Also OT, but whatever happened to Jimmy Button?


Not sure about Mike Brown and what occured. Sorry.

As for Button, as I read the article, he had a simple fall and landed a little weird. That's all it took. As he states, he went from being on top of the world in all aspects of his life and career to ending up in an ICU in a matter of milliseconds. He couldn't believe it happened to him, but he said that he knew immediately. His medical bills are in the millions, BTW.

  • cowboyona426

Posted July 29, 2007 - 06:01 PM

#37

I know the Button story, just not what he's up to now. Button was one of my favorites, it was truly sad to see what happened to him. I'm pretty sure that Mike Brown is the one I saw wad himself... the only time I've ever left an event of any sort where there was complete silence. BAD, bad deal.

  • djtroy

Posted July 29, 2007 - 06:17 PM

#38

an '06 YZ450 does NOT handle bad. Sounds to me more like a novice rider blaming his bike rather than his abilities. Try a better front tire if you still have the stock D739, get more of an intermediate terrain tire.




The 2006 YZ 450f DOES HANDLE BAD. I have one and I hate how it corners.

  • cowboyona426

Posted July 29, 2007 - 06:26 PM

#39

The 2006 YZ 450f DOES HANDLE BAD. I have one and I hate how it corners.


I say it handles fine, but cornering is tricky. Two different issues in my book. I can ride trails all day long without much trouble, but if I really try to turn sharp at much speed it starts to get ugly. The right front tire helps tremendously, which for me is the Kenda Washougal. Next up I'm sending my suspension to a fellow TT'er to work his magic.

  • whipit1k

Posted July 29, 2007 - 06:48 PM

#40

They made the bike a bit prone to tucking under, and also to climbing out of ruts to the inside. And, since I'm used to leaning the bike lower than me (to get my '03 to turn in without washing), it meant that I had to hold the bike back from turning in too quickly. Increasing trail in general beyond a certain point also exaggerates the bike's tendency to dig at ruts in sand instead of tracking through them, and for the front wheel to get kicked out to one side when you hit something sharp edged at an angle.

There certainly are. I've thought about marketing a line of slick looking but functionally useless products under the name "Black Feather Racing Equipment". Could work.

That was my first intellectual reaction, too. It simply did not seem as though that much would be noticeable, or a very big improvement. However, I do know that the '06 is very sensitive to small changes in geometry, even to the point that the choice of handlebars can make the bike act differently. Comments from people who have ridden the 24's on an '06 indicated that they were surprised at the difference it made, and mostly, they liked it.

Dubach rides the '06 250F with 27's on it, but that's a whole different thing. On the 450, he uses 24's. As to his suspension being too stiff for the rest of us, that's a pretty typical characteristic of a pro bike.


It is interesting that you mention sensativity to setup Re: handlebars, etc. I am tall and have been running KX double high bars, a bend I love. No complaints with the bars, but I also have an SDG tall seat I am expiramenting with. It feels comfortable and is pretty tall as SDG tall models go (I have used them on other bikes and they did not seem to be all that much higher than stock: this one does) But I suspect that it exacerbates the bikes tendency to wash or push the front end in hard corners because the center of gravity of the rider is so much higher. This bike literally feels like it is going to hit the deck at any moment when pushed a little in corners unless you work really hard to do everything perfect , and that tires me out in a very short time.

my stock seat is going back on soon but I still feel there is a major issue with front end traction





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