"Floating Shoulder"

17 replies to this topic
  • beachpinz

Posted 21 July 2007 - 01:34 PM

#1


Hi Dr. Mark -

I was thinking out my question and then I remembered your gracious contribution to the forum. I hope you can help.

I am 40 years old.

As a result of a collision with a quad on 7/9/07 (not my fault), I was recently diagnosed with comminuted clavicle, scapula neck, and rib fractures and told it was "floating shoulder". I saw two doctors at the same time - a 28-year vet and a younger one in fellowship with him.

They debated over surgery for the clavicle - with the younger one saying the new implants are very good and are perfect for me and will restore me aesthetically. He also said my shoulder is shorter than it once was. The older one saying I will be better off without surgery (95% as opposed to 90%). I am being treated with a figure-8 and pain meds.

Doesn't look good in the mirror.

I'm now confused and wondering if I should be questioning the treatment. Can you give me your opinion? I've attached a ct image and the report. Sorry, don't have the x-rays.

The shoulder and rib pain is tolerable, but I have this completely dibilitating muscle pain in my back that starts about 5 min after standing up. The longer I stand, the more it hurts and it becomes intolerable.

On a separate note, I was wearing "Asterisk Cell" knee braces and broke the frame and two buckles on the left one. My whole leg is black and blue, but my knee if fine! Yay!

Thank you,
Mark

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  • DrMark

Posted 21 July 2007 - 01:58 PM

#2

that clavicle should be fixed as soon as possible. A floating shoulder is an absolute indication for repair of the clavicle.

with a plate, screws, and bone graft from the knee, you will be able to start on motion of the shoulder immmediately.
Otherwise, your shoulder will perform as poorly as it looks.

Buy a SWA ticket to Houston for next week, and you will have your life back by the weekend.

  • beachpinz

Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:22 PM

#3

Dr. Mark -

Thank you for the quick reply. I have some questions.

I just spent a long time reading about/from you and you are clearly very competent (and well-liked) in this area of orthopaedics. It seems your methods are very progressive. Is that why the differing opinions from the older docs?

On Monday I will contact your office to see if you take my insurance. Is there anyone in particular I should talk to?

Tuesday, I have a 1-week follow-up and new x-rays with my ortho. Is there anything I should discuss with him? He's well-known and only treats the shoulder. Why is he so resistant to surgery? Could there be something that I haven't told you or is this pretty standard?

Will I really have functional problems if I heal like this?

Will the surgery affect my scapular injuries?

What happens to the piece of bone floating by my armpit? My doc says part of my tricep is attached to it and it will eventually reattach. Is that true?

Will I really be functional by the end of the week? I own my own business and this is already causing me problems, and $.

It seems there are plenty of disadvantages with the non-surgical approach. What are the disadvantages with the surgical approach?

Thanks again,


Mark
Long Beach, CA

  • beachpinz

Posted 21 July 2007 - 06:56 PM

#4

Ok, I checked online and it looks like you are in my network. Yay! So that should be good unless there's some out-of-state thing. I'll verify Monday with your office.

Should I forward my CT's to you? I have it on CD rom. Also, should I try to get my ER x-rays? My ortho has them.

I read my ortho's bio and it says that he believes that surgery should only be used as a last resort. So, it sounds like he is going to probably try to talk me out of it when I tell him.

Also, is there any way I can have a 5-minute conversation with you?

Thanks,


Mark

  • DrMark

Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:30 AM

#5

You don't need to forward me any more diagnostics. The X-ray that you posted said everything that was necessary. If you need to speak to me further my cell is listed below.

Like your other doctor, we were all taught to ignore clavicle fractures. Where I trained, fractured clavicles were referred to the family medicine, rather than orthopaedic cliinic. It seems that we were quite wrong about its. Below is a major multicenter study of randomized treatments offered patients to test the efficacy of operative vs. non operative treatment of clavicle fractures. Perhaps your doc needs to read the study.

Here is the abstract

The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery (American). 2007;89:1-10.
doi:10.2106/JBJS.F.00020
© 2007 The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, Inc.
This Article

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PubMed

PubMed Citation

Nonoperative Treatment Compared with Plate Fixation of Displaced Midshaft Clavicular Fractures
A Multicenter, Randomized Clinical Trial
Canadian Orthopaedic Trauma Society

Disclosure: In support of their research for or preparation of this manuscript, one or more of the authors received grants or outside funding from the Orthopaedic Trauma Association and Zimmer Inc. None of the authors received payments or other benefits or a commitment or agreement to provide such benefits from a commercial entity. A commercial entity (Zimmer Inc.) paid or directed, or agreed to pay or direct, benefits to a research fund, foundation, educational institution, or other charitable or nonprofit organization with which the authors are affiliated or associated.

NOTE: The authors acknowledge the advice and knowledge of Lynn A. Crosby and Carl J. Basamania.

This manuscript was prepared by the Canadian Orthopaedic Trauma Society, c/o Michael D. McKee, MD, FRCS©, 55 Queen Street East, Suite 800, Toronto, ON M5C 1R6, Canada. E-mail address: mckeem@smh.toronto.on.ca

Principal Investigator: Michael D. McKee

Lead Investigators (Site): Michael D. McKee (St. Michael's Hospital), Hans J. Kreder (Sunny-brook and Women's Health Science Center), Scott Mandel (McMaster University), Robert Mc-Cormack (Royal Columbian Hospital), Rudolph Reindl (Montreal General Hospital), David M.W. Pugh (Brantford Hospital), David Sanders (London Health Science Center), and Richard Buckley (Foothills Hospital). Study Design: Michael D. McKee, Emil H. Schemitsch, Lisa M. Wild, Hans J. Kreder, Robert McCormack, Scott Mandel, Rudolph Reindl, and Edward Harvey. Data Analysis: Jeremy A. Hall, Lisa M. Wild, Milena V. Santos, Michael D. McKee, Christian J. Veillette, and Daniel B. Whelan. Radiographic Analysis: Lisa M. Wild, Milena V. Santos, and Michael D. McKee. Manuscript Preparation: Michael D. McKee, Jeremy A. Hall, Lisa M. Wild, Emil H. Schemitsch, Rudolph Reindl, Robert McCormack, David Sanders, and Christian J. Veillette. Patient Enrollment and Assessment: Michael D. McKee, Emil H. Schemitsch, James P. Waddell, Lisa M. Wild, Milena V. Santos, Hans J. Kreder, David J.G. Stephen, Terrence A. Axelrod, Edward Harvey, Rudolph Reindl, Gregory Berry, Bertrand Perey, Kostas Panagiotopolous, Robert McCormack, Beverly Bulmer, Mauri Zomar, Karyn Moon, Elizabeth Kimmel, Carla Erho, Elena Lakoub, Patricia Leclair, Christian J. Veillette, Bonnie Sobchak, David M.W. Pugh, Richard Buckley, Scott Mandel, David Sanders, and Trevor B. Stone.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Background: Recent studies have shown a high prevalence of symptomatic malunion and nonunion after nonoperative treatment of displaced midshaft clavicular fractures. We sought to compare patient-oriented outcome and complication rates following nonoperative treatment and those after plate fixation of displaced midshaft clavicular fractures.
Methods: In a multicenter, prospective clinical trial, 132 patients with a displaced midshaft fracture of the clavicle were randomized (by sealed envelope) to either operative treatment with plate fixation (sixty-seven patients) or nonoperative treatment with a sling (sixty-five patients). Outcome analysis included standard clinical follow-up and the Constant shoulder score, the Disability of the Arm, Shoulder and Hand (DASH) score, and plain radiographs. One hundred and eleven patients (sixty-two managed operatively and forty-nine managed nonoperatively) completed one year of follow-up. There were no differences between the two groups with respect to patient demographics, mechanism of injury, associated injuries, Injury Severity Score, or fracture pattern.

Results: Constant shoulder scores and DASH scores were significantly improved in the operative fixation group at all time-points (p = 0.001 and p < 0.01, respectively). The mean time to radiographic union was 28.4 weeks in the non-operative group compared with 16.4 weeks in the operative group (p = 0.001). There were two nonunions in the operative group compared with seven in the nonoperative group (p = 0.042). Symptomatic malunion developed in nine patients in the nonoperative group and in none in the operative group (p = 0.001). Most complications in the operative group were hardware-related (five patients had local irritation and/or prominence of the hardware, three had a wound infection, and one had mechanical failure). At one year after the injury, the patients in the operative group were more likely to be satisfied with the appearance of the shoulder (p = 0.001) and with the shoulder in general (p = 0.002) than were those in the nonoperative group.

Conclusions: Operative fixation of a displaced fracture of the clavicular shaft results in improved functional outcome and a lower rate of malunion and nonunion compared with nonoperative treatment at one year of follow-up. Hardware removal remains the most common reason for repeat intervention in the operative group. This study supports primary plate fixation of completely displaced midshaft clavicular fractures in active adult patients.

Level of Evidence: Therapeutic Level I. See Instructions to Authors for a complete description

  • beachpinz

Posted 23 July 2007 - 12:05 AM

#6

Just emailed insurance info to Yvonne for verification.

  • beachpinz

Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:21 PM

#7

Dr. Mark -

Do you remove the plate after healing or is it permanent?

Also, here is a good, short article in laymens language.
http://www.datatrace...ternclub-15.htm

See you soon,

Mark

  • DrMark

Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:54 AM

#8

I am familiar with Bill's work and use the same plate that only very rarely needs to be removed.

See you thursday.

doc

  • beachpinz

Posted 25 July 2007 - 03:18 PM

#9

Getting fixed by Dr. Mark tomorrow. Will post my experience when I get back.

  • hawaii500_1999

Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:36 PM

#10

beachpinz said:

Getting fixed by Dr. Mark tomorrow. Will post my experience when I get back.

glad to hear it mark. and you'll be glad you did it too.

  • DrMark

Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:33 PM

#11

The collar bone has been put back together. Tight as a new fundamentalist bride.

  • davidl9999

Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:43 PM

#12

drmark said:

The collar bone has been put back together. Tight as a new fundamentalist bride.

Exactly what are you saying here, Dr. Mark.... :D

It's always refreshing to see a fellow rider so well taken care of.

  • beachpinz

Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:17 PM

#13

Ok, I'm back and all I can say is that I 100% made the right decision by going to Dr. Mark Sanders. I'm already doing stuff that I couldn't do before and I'm not deformed when I look in the mirror.

Surgery on Thurs at noon. I was at the Sanders Clinic the next morning doing PT with Ed, then on a plane to LA that afternoon and home in time to kiss my daughter on her 9th birthday. The next day (today) I drove myself to her surprise party - with both hands on the wheel.

My leg is sore where they took some bone for the graft and my throat is kinda jacked up from the breathing tube but my collar bone area does not hurt at all, just feels tight. My shoulder's weak and stiff, probably from not moving for 3 weeks. Too bad I didn't go to Dr. Mark right away. Ed gave me exercises to do every day and that should get me going in no time. If it wasn't for all my broken ribs, and maybe my other shoulder fractures, I would feel great right now. And I'm 40 years old and not in the greatest shape, so I'm sure a younger person in better shape would feel even better.

One caveat - the nurse at the hospital told me if I didn't do the exercises Dr. Sanders would give me, that I could stretch the recovery out to a year!

The whole experience with the Sanders Clinic was fantastic. Everybody was happy, nice and efficient - no grumps like here in SoCal. Dr. Sanders is the most communicative doctor I've ever dealt with. You can just imagine that if he donates so much of his time to help us here at TT, what he's like when you're an actual patient. He's 10% comedian and 110% Doc.

You don't have to be a professional athlete to get premium care from a premium doc. You just have to call Dr. Mark. It's important that I get back in the game as quick as possible for many reasons, I own a small business and my whole family rides. That's just as important as starting the next racing season.

Thanks again Dr. Mark


Mark from SoCal
(neither fruit nor nut)

http://img177.images...79/docmelo8.jpg

http://img137.images.../dsc0800qi9.jpg

  • hawaii500_1999

Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:45 PM

#14

beachpinz said:


Mark from SoCal
(neither fruit nor nut)


LOL.

Dr. mark told be to have a safe trip back to "the land of fruits and nuts" too.

glad to hear you're back in full form.

  • beachpinz

Posted 25 August 2007 - 07:44 AM

#15

Ok, just a 4-week report......

Got the sutures removed in 10 days and my GP was very impressed with the quality of the work and wanted to know who did it. I can tell you my scar is barely a scar - just a nice, thin line.

As far as my shoulder, it feels great - with full range of motion. No pain really, just some tightness in the skin. Was able to take the 5th wheel up to the high sierras, drive off-road and do all my own set-up. And that was only 11 days post-op. Everybody wanted to help me. Just told them "no thanks, I got it". The family really looks forward to this trip every year and it wouldn't have happened without the surgery. Just wasn't able to go on the dads ride.

The majority of my friends that ride, have broken their collar bones and all of them can't believe how normal I am now (or how I was at 1-week). One of them is even calling me just lucky and if I get on my bike sooner than 3-months, I'll be back in 5 minutes. Oh, I can't wait to prove him wrong!

Anyway, if you didn't know I got hurt, you wouldn't know. Amazing. Thanks Dr. Mark.

  • beachpinz

Posted 06 September 2007 - 06:26 PM

#16

Dr. Mark -

Here are the 6-week X-Rays taken today. I'll get the cd in the mail tomorrow. Do I need to send you the films too? What about the bone fragment from the scapula - is that ok?

Thanks,
Mark

Posted Image Posted Image

  • DrMark

Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:36 PM

#17

Who says floating shoulders are such terrible injuries? The clavicle is healed. That bone fragment form the scapula will be absorbed. Go back to your old life!

Email me the pictures to msanders9@sbcglobal.net so I can keep them in the record.

doc

  • beachpinz

Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:04 PM

#18

drmark said:

Go back to your old life!

doc

That's what I'm talking about! Actually, I already have. Went on a 12-hour Harley ride last weekend and it was fantastic.:ride: Just waiting on some parts for my CRF and that'll be next!

Thanks Dr. Mark.:applause:

Mark



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