Fenced In

15 replies to this topic
  • Ron_in_SoCal

Posted May 28, 2000 - 07:44 AM


For a motorcycle guy that's been raised in Southern California, I thought I've seen some nice trails. I tend to ride the Mojave Desert and Gorman area in the winter, the San Bernardino Mountains in the summer, with the occasional Kennedy Meadows or June Lake trip in the Sierras. Lots of beautiful places to ride. Unfortunately, most riding areas I am familiar with have become over policed by the do-gooder Forest Service. Forest Adventure Passes and sound tests, green stickers and red stickers, fences and fees. I feel like I've been turned into a criminal.

Just got back from a very nice vacation in Central Oregon. Of course I had to bring my favorite toy along just in case I could sneak a few miles in. What an eye-opener. This place is totally motorcycle friendly. Many places to ride legally, and no government agency with it's hand out around every bush. You don't even have to register your motorcycle for off-road use! I felt welcome rather than shunned. And the trails are spectacular. Can't wait to go back and do a lot more riding.

I guess my point is we here in Southern California have lost the battle with the enviro-freaks. Way too much control, too many stupid rules. Yep, I'm a criminal just trying to enjoy my favorite sport. LAME!

Check out that Oregon trail:

Posted Image

FYI: The above picture was taken at a place called Deer Creek located about 124 miles north of the California border East of Interstate 5 (Roseburg / Dixonville area).

[This message has been edited by Ron in SoCal (edited 05-30-2000).]

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted May 28, 2000 - 08:08 AM


Ron were in oregon did you go ridding looks like a good place to go.I live in northen CA,do have maps?
e-mailme at wilmexrs@cs.com

  • Mike_in_Silicon_valley

Posted May 28, 2000 - 08:28 AM


I'm with you on all the rules. I live in the northern half of the state (Santa Clara). I have lived most of my 37 years in this area. When I was a kid California seemed to be a much easier place to live. The increase in rules & regulations seems to directly coincide with the dramatic increase in population. In this area we have people from all over the world coming to try and grab some dot-com wealth. The housing prices are going through the roof (median $574,000). Traffic absolutely sucks! I truly believe Cal. is the most diverse & beautiful state. But the overcrowding is starting to kill it for me. My in-laws own 80 acres on the Bitterroot river in Montana. When I was there last year I didn't own a bike but I had driven my 4 wheeler. I was able to go virtually anywhere I wanted. It was like going to Yosemite and no one else was invited. I tell you what, if my stock hits I might think seriously about moving there. You talked about riding in Kennedy meadows. Many years ago I backpacked into Relief reservoir from Kennedy meadows. It wasn't that far (maybe 10 miles) but it was mostly switchback hiking (up & up & up). While at the lake I heard a motorcycle. I looked at a ridge on the opposite side of the lake and here was this guy sitting on his bike. He sat there for a minute and then took off. I thought "here I just killed myself getting up here and this guy is riding his f****** motorcycle up here!". Ever since that day I've wanted to make that ride. What trail do you take? Maybe we can get some guys together for a ride?

  • bender

Posted May 28, 2000 - 08:37 AM


hey Ron, i live in So. Cal. too, and i have to say you definately hit the nail on the head with that synopsis of California. If it's not off roading or off road vehicles, than it's our guns, boats, or god knows what else the liberals can do away with. Indeed, it's a sad state of affairs in California anymore.


  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted May 28, 2000 - 03:54 PM


I hear you Ron! I just moved to So. Cal from Oregon. I never had a sound check or hassle from anyone while riding in Oregon. For some reason I thought there would be less environazi's in So. Cal. Boy was I wrong! Let's make sure to fight for our rights to ride. I'm happy to say I have a green sticker for my 99 wr 400.

  • Steve_Morgan

Posted May 30, 2000 - 04:06 PM


Right on, Ron! I've been riding in So. Cal. for 33 years. I've been totally disappointed as I watched all of my favorite riding areas legislated out of existence, plus the frequent harassment by "Rangers with an attitude" (could the .357 on their belt be a factor?). "Environmental Concerns" are always their battering ram (aka excuse, aka lie). Three-toed frogs and proximity to early-man artifacts are some of their favorite excuses for local closures, but the list is endless. Never mind the fact that they discovered the frogs after 20 years of continuous off-road activity, which obviously had little or no impact on their ability to survive (their conclusions are often based on bad science). The closed trails recover so quickly that it's hard to even find them anymore. The "greens" are definitely winning so far, we seem to have no representation to fight them back.

This weekend I spoke with an avid hunter who said that they're being criminalized as well. One example is the "earth first" anti-access radicals are now bringing the Grizzly bear back into the US national forests, where firearms are being "phased out", precluding self protection from these aggressive predators. Grizzlies are classified as an endangered species, even though there's over 5,000 Grizzlies in several countries. They each need huge areas of land (up to 2,600 sq km), and of course all OHV travel within their new territories must be stopped immediately. Check out http://www.predatorconservation.org/ (among hundreds of others!)

Hunters, fishermen, all types of OHV enthusiasts, and anyone concerned with declining freedom need to get organized. We must voice our opinions directly to our elected Congressmen, they're the only ones who have something to lose if they ignore us. Writing to Chief Dombeck & others is good (I do it regularly), but ultimately the appointed officials take orders from our elected officials. President Clinton is simply bypassing Congress and the American people through an Executive Order loophole process. Congress CAN pressure the President to rescind E.O.'s.

OK, soap-box mode off. How about this for starters: 1) Get the 100's of splintered land-use groups (see http://sharetrails.org/links.htm), plus the outdoor sportsmen's groups together, to support a Washington lobbyist(s), just like the big corporations do. Our combined efforts would generate some serious cash, and big money makes things happen in Washington. The Blue Ribbon Coalition seems to be doing a good job of direct government involvement for OHV'ers alone. 2) Start an ongoing "OHV Friends of the Media" organization, which will get members of the media involved in responsible off-roading activities. They'd actually get to experience the great sport we love, and gain a more balanced understanding of the real issues we're struggling with. Activists needed!

  • bender

Posted May 30, 2000 - 10:36 PM


Steve, i agree that what is really needed is some SERIOUS money in Washington. Let's face it: politicians as a whole are a greedy corrupt group and we should approach them where it counts. My philosophy on this has been for 15 years quite simple: get the MANUFACTURERS to spend some SERIOUS money lobbying for our causes. Afterall, it's these capitolistic Manufacturers that are getting the richest. I feel it's time to pay back their dedicated customers that have through the years continued to buy products. And if it's not done soon it maybe too late....for their products are becoming more and more useless to us.
Sorry i'm so cynical, but i'm so very disappointed it aint even funny :)


  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted May 31, 2000 - 07:55 AM


Horray for you guys, lets get something started on this thread. Together we can put up a great fight against these whacko's.
The first thing that comes to mind is to put a bounty on the idiots that speak the most about closing our lands. The next thing would be........well lets hear your ideas on this subject.
Citizen Kane is at it again, raising kane.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Ron_in_SoCal

Posted May 31, 2000 - 10:55 AM


Good ideas guys. Here is more fuel for the fire:

A very good friend of mine was recently put in charge of managing his gun club's property located near Gorman. He has been kind enough to forward to me the Forest Service propaganda he has been receiving. You would not believe some of the proposals, in particular the "Roadless Area Conservation". This is a full-on assault on our sport on a national level.

If you So Cal guys like to ride the Alamo Mountain / Gorman area, I suggest you ride it a lot while you can and take pictures so you can remember how things used to be.

Check out the roadless propaganda for yourself at:

Keep in mind that the more power the Forest Service gets, the less forest use you get. I don't trust these people one bit. They have already ruined Southern California with their bogus micro-management of our riding areas, imagine what they will do with more authority. Scary stuff.

What do you suppose a used WR400 would be worth if you can't ride it?

My new motto: Earth First! We can ride the others later.

[This message has been edited by Ron in SoCal (edited 05-31-2000).]

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted June 02, 2000 - 07:53 AM


Has anybody been paying attention to what is going on here????????
Clinton and Gore have been so busy closing up National Parks and any area that is accessable to offroad vehicles that you guys will be without land to ride on.
Clinton is signing a bill today that will close another 3 million acres to YOU!!
Tommarrow he will be looking at somemore land to close. It's just like she said, "IT WON'T BE LONG NOW".
This message edited by.....Who cares

  • AngryCandy

Posted June 02, 2000 - 08:30 AM


Hey Mike in Silicon Valley,

How much does an acre of land go for up there in Montana where your in-laws live? How sweet would it be to have the monster ranch in Big Sky Country.... :D :) :D

  • Mike_in_Silicon_valley

Posted June 02, 2000 - 02:25 PM


I think it's going for $5,000 to $10,000 an acre depending on location. You can spend less than that the more remote you get. You can also spend a hell of a lot more than that if you want to live by Craig Barrett or Charles Schwab. I was at a sporting goods store (Bob Wards) one day buying a fly rod when I looked next to me and saw Huey Lewis buying dry flies, pretty cool. I'm with you on the big sky ranch!

  • AnotherMidLifeGuy

Posted June 02, 2000 - 07:06 PM


This same topic came up under another post on the Suzuki site: "DRZs with a Yoshi exhaust". I won't reiterate what I said there -- but please read what I and others had to say on this subject. A couple of thoughts, though -- I want open spaces left alone for us to ride on. I want other open spaces left alone - without any motorized vehicles - to enjoy quiet nature, and hiking and fishing -- indeed, sorry, but Kennedy Meadows comes to mind. I want other spaces that are shared -- either by season or by quiet bikes. (I hope that keeps me in mostly agreement with the rest of you -- that we also leave some pristine areas.) I think, if I were asked to describe the enemy of us dirtriders, it wouldn't be the desire to leave some pristine sites, but rather 1) the notion held by many that those of us who enjoy the outdoors -- motorized, non-motorized, and hybrid-types like me -- cannot be trusted to decide how to best utilize, while preserving, our outdoors natural assets; and 2) the ceaseless population explosion going on in many places, particularly SoCal (I moved to Irvine, Ca. in 1969 as an 8 year old and got to hike, see wild animals, and dirt ride -- right outside my door. It was a wonderful, OUTDOORS, place to grow up. To any of you who have been to Irvine, Ca., lately, CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE THIS??) Anyway, something's got to give. Let's find a way. I'm almost heartbroken. Peace.

  • bender

Posted June 02, 2000 - 09:50 PM


midlife i can relate...i'm from Agoura Hills and we had the exact same thing as you did in Irvine when i was growing up. A trip to Agoura these days and if you can find an acre of undeveloped land, come back next month...chances are it'll be history.
As per my earlier post on this thread, i still maintain that it's the manufacturers that are about the only hope we have to fight this eco madness we have encountered. A recent visit to off-road.com has Rick Seiman (Dirt Bike magazine editor) also sharing my views on this. He writes: "The off-road industry has ignored the land use problem to the point where they ought to be ashamed of their inaction. All they give a damn about is selling another bike, ATV, jet-ski, snowmobile or 4x4 to someone."
you can check out Ricks defeat Al Gore site at http://www.off-road.com/algore/

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted June 03, 2000 - 08:21 AM


Hey Bender, I'm with you. I would do just about anything to help defeat Al Gore. Couldn't raise that Rick thing, but will keep trying.
Everybody should be a enviromentalist to a degree. It's the whacko's that are killing us with their junk science.
Citizen Kane.........Raising Kane

  • Ron_in_SoCal

Posted June 03, 2000 - 11:22 AM


Oh no, here I go again…

I have decided to take the time to write as many government agencies as I can find to ask them what they are going to do about the recent land use issues that are ruining our sport. I think I'll write the industry manufacturers as well.

If you feel inclined to start writing down your views and sending them off, here are a few good places to start:

<UL><LI>State and Local Government on the Net
Find you local representatives and tell them what you think.</LI>
<LI>The Bureau of Land Management
I've had a lot to say to these people in the past regarding fences in my favorite riding area.</LI>
<LI> USDA Forest Service
Confront the folks that make the policies that effect your riding areas.</LI>[/list]
If you feel like the land you use is being taken away from you and your not a AMA member, shame on you. I'm proud to say I've been one for over 18 years.

Although time consuming, a hand written letter gets the most attention. You can e-mail and snail mail the same pro-off-road enthusiast verbage to many government agencies hoping at least one will be read by the right person somewhere.

I know it sounds like I've gone off the deep end here, but damn it, I'm getting tired of all these new regulations. Anyone out there gonna join me?

[This message has been edited by Ron in SoCal (edited 06-03-2000).]


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