An example of what WOHVA is doing for you

10 replies to this topic
  • Home Finance USA

Posted 07 June 2007 - 10:36 AM

#1


WOHVA board members are meeting with the DNR on 6/7/2007 to discuss the following.

Final WOHVA/DNR 6/7/07 meeting agenda;

#1 Item is DNR's plan for the ORV money appropriated by the 2007 Legislature from NOVA ORV funds.

Please help us understand - Who initiated the 2007 legislative proposal to take the ORV tag funds for unspecified use, i.e. not earmarked, by the DNR?

What did the DNR tell the Legislature they would accomplish for OHV recreation with these funds?

What does the DNR now understand the 2007 Legislature's issuance of our ORV tag funds is to be used for, i.e specifically what is to be acomplished?

Please provide a break down by dollars and project that the DNR intends to do using this money to promote or provide OHV Recreational opportunities.

If a detailed breakdown is not yet available, then - Is the DNR willing to put together a specific budget of line items/amounts with specific tasks that will be accomplished using the ORV tag money funding provided by the Legislature this year? If so, when will that be available?

What guarantee do the ORV tag fund providers have from the DNR that this money will be used to promote and provide for OHV recreation, not just more signs stating motorized vehicles are not allowed?

Why there is no "single" person responsible for the the OHV programs at DNR - or is there? Our sport have a single point of contatct inside the DNR - a person who "works" fo us and perhaps is even hired by us. We see the need for a person that will be a true ombudsman for the OHV user community - who pay millions into this organization (DNR). In the dictionary it states; 1. a public official, esp. in Scandinavian countries, who investigates complaints by private citzens against government agencies or officials. 2. a person who investigates and resolves complaints, as from employees or students 3. legal representative

When will the DNR begin the process to designate Reiter as an official OHV area?


#2 Item - General DNR financial questions regarding OHV interests -

Why hasn't the DNR ever provided specific accounting for what they have done with the approximately 40% they skim off the top of the NOVA fund as Doug Sutherland himself stated he would do after we met with him shortly after he was first elected? We have lots of prior DNR "reports" including fancy PowerPoint ones and they all stop at a level way higher than showing what the DNR actually did with the money on the ground!

An audit report (http://www.sao.wa.go...iles/ar6508.pdf) pointed out that charging of excessive overhead cost to restricted funds was sited as a concern for the years 2001 and 2002. Where are the numbers showing what was done to correct this?

Financial reports (http://www.sao.wa.go...uditSearch.asp). The reports available on the web do not include the financial reports, but hard copy financial reports are available upon request. Please provide us with a hard copy of the specific reports showing what funding the DNR received from NOVA for Capitol Forest, Tahuya, Green Mountain and Walker Valley, including the approximately 40% automatically issued off the top and all grant monies for FY 2005 and 2006.

We then need the specific financial reports showing how much of that money was spent specifically to promote and provide for motorized recreation in each of those areas.


#3 Item - DNR W.A.C Revision Process Status

What has happened to the all the specific input provided by the motorized user representatives to the DNR W.A.C. Revision committee?

Does a final W.A.C. Revision draft, taking those comments into consideration, now exist? If so, please provide us with a copy.

Has Doug Sutherland clearly directed his staff to rescind their proposed 2005 W.A.C. revision for all DNR Land to be Closed Unless Designated Open?


#4 Item - DNR Multiple Use Land Management

What percentage of DNR managed lands contain multiple-use trails open to all users?

What is being done to increase the percentage containing multipe-use trails open to all users?

Which DNR lands are being considered for the addition of multiple-use trails open to all users?

Who is the appropriate person within the DNR to talk with about future OHV issues and opportunities in Mason County?

Specifically who at the DNR has been responsible for reducing the amount of DNR managed land available for ORV recreation and concentrating ORV use into ever smaller areas, thereby creating overuse and unsafe conditions (collisions due to too much traffic) on the remaining DNR trails open to ORV use during Doug Sutherlands term in office?

Please explain to me how the DNR will close an ORV area (Pilchuck Forest) because there are not enough wardens to patrol it, then turn right around and take Nonhighway and Off-road Vehicle Account (NOVA) funding to hire two new wardens to patrol HIKING trails?
http://www.dnr.wa.go...s/nr06_013.html
This is just one example where our users feel that we are being robbed (NOVA funds) and lied to, when it comes to reasons the DNR uses to justify ORV area closures.

What is Doug Sutherland doing to direct his staff to re-open the P5000 road system to OHVs which was arbitrarily closed without any valid scientific data?

What is Doug Sutherland doing to re-open the Spada/Sultan Lakes Basin to OHV use?

All DNR roads were open to ORV tagged vehicles as part of the original ATV act that created NOVA and provided approximately 40% of the NOVA funding to the DNR right off the top. What RCW or WAC is the DNR using to justify signing DNR roads as closed to use by ORV tagged off road vehicles?

Please explain the difference between trust land and public land as per Doug Sutherland's personal email statement that "These lands belong to the trusts, not the public, however as noted earlier, the public may use them."

For more information regarding WOHVA. Go to www.wohva.org. If you become a member. Make sure that you mention Home Finance so that you can get 5 raffle tickets for the raffle on Sept 22nd.
Russ

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  • dilyb

Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:45 PM

#2

Thanks for posting this, Russ! We'll see how much we can learn in the time available. To be clear, this is not a meeting open to general attendance but by invite only to assure we meet our goals. We need to get this type of information out in the public domain so it's better understood.

Byron

  • tod701

Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:32 PM

#3

dilyb said:

We'll see how much we can learn in the time available.

It's alot to cover in one meeting and will be interesting to see how well the DNR prepared for this.

See ya tonight (leaving Bellingham soon, for the traffic filled drive to South Tacoma.

  • team claw

Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:49 PM

#4

All damn good questions!.........and ones that have been burning in the back of many of our minds, mine included.

If your able to, please share DNR's responses to any or all of the questions and what, if any, follow-up there will be.

Go get em'!:thumbsup:

  • trailmeisterjoe

Posted 07 June 2007 - 07:09 PM

#5

Since this is just a meeting, what are the odds that DNR actually addresses these questions? do we have to hire lawyers to force them to sometime in the future?
Joe

  • DirtCheapJohn

Posted 08 June 2007 - 01:45 PM

#6

trailmeisterjoe said:

Since this is just a meeting, what are the odds that DNR actually addresses these questions? do we have to hire lawyers to force them to sometime in the future?
Joe

Very good question...

Pene stated last night she had not even seen the questions, it certainly seemed I'd heard that same song and dance before...

A full report of last night's meeting will be posted after review of the WOHVA board by me or dilyb.

Joe, I personally have suggested we may be forced to use a lawsuit in order to obtain the answers to the above questions.

I'd rather DNR spend the $480,000.00 on attorneys to answer our questions than give to some fat cat paper pusher to "study signs," without even placing one in the ground.

  • trailmeisterjoe

Posted 08 June 2007 - 06:02 PM

#7

John, thats what I'm thinking too.:thumbsup:
Joe

  • fitness2go

Posted 09 June 2007 - 11:42 AM

#8

How did the meeting go?

  • MACE

Posted 09 June 2007 - 12:52 PM

#9

I can help with the "sign study". Print up 500 signs that say "trail open" and distribute them throughout the state on certified user built trails. Print up 50 signs that say "shooting encouraged" and post them at the ten new safe backstops that will be created with volunteer shooter labor. Maybe a couple of hundred "$1000 bounty on trash dumpers and vandals" signs might go a long way towards preserving both my sports.

After Bastille day, I will ascend to the throne and it will be so.

  • DirtCheapJohn

Posted 09 June 2007 - 02:57 PM

#10

fitness2go said:

How did the meeting go?

The WOHVA Board has not yet approved the "official" release...

The meeting with DNR disappointed me, their present stance does not seem openly anti-ORV, but DNR definitely does NOT have our interest at heart.

It seemed the only thing DNR is in favor of... Is more money for DNR. :thumbsdn:

I believe Dave Hiatt's statement is accurate... AGAIN: This is a "private opinion" and NOT a WOHVA release...

Quote

These opinions are strictly my own and undoubtedly somewhat biased by my personal experience of being betrayed/disregarded/stolen from for far too many years by that Agency including their efforts to make our Public Land into Corporate Trust Land. I am now old enough that Agencies who burn me once have a long, long, long row to hoe doing something for me before I will do anything for them. Call me cynical? Yes my "read between the lines, listen to what was not said, and BS filters were on full alert tonight" but with good reason I believe, as noted below.

Goodnight.

Dave Hiatt

- How entrenched Pene and Mark seem to be in "doing it their way" i.e. re-inventing the wheel when it already exists in other government agencies, e.g. signage standards and mapping software input criteria.

- How the DNR people take no notes of anything said or suggested by those in attendance. Minds already made up? Already know it all? Only here to tell us something? No assurances that they heard us on anything or are willing to lift a finger to get back to us with more information. This is what they consider "opening a dialogue?"

- They have 25 people specifically dedicated to recreation that do not include local land management. Who are these people? Where are they located? Specifically what are their daily functions? How many of them are assigned tasks that promote and provide for OHV recreation?

- "The Legislature" made us do it! We need to ask what specifics in the budget requires them to absolutely waste $280,000 of our ORV money to "study signage" needs and formats!

- Why did we have to drag information on who our volunteers should contact to help with Reiter and Yacolt? Why didn't they catch on and volunteer to provide a contact for the Ahtanum area if they really want our people involved?

- The gall they have to come and act as if the amount of money OHV users have provided to the DNR is a pittance while asking us to do more to support their request for us to help them fund more bureaucrats, toilets and picnic tables!

- Not stating a single specific objective to provide more opportunity for OHV recreation on DNR land, e.g. NO STATEMENTS such as "we want to provide more OHV trails", "we want to create an OHV designation for Reiter/Ahtanum", "we want to open more DNR land for OHV use." The lack of pro-OHV statements like that was deafening silence to my ears and did nothing to change my opinion of the DNR.

- Their obvious disdain/distaste for a Fair Share Trails Act which would require non-motorized users of trails and facilities to pay to play just as motorized users have had to do for years. Why are they so against this?

- How only ONE of the top six items they want our help with may do anything to benefit public land users. 1 - "Reiter" was stated as a one word item without specifics other than the words "assessment" and "facilities". 3 items requesting help to get more money. 1 item about creating a new policy and procedure (W.A.C.) "that makes sense to the users" to quote Mark. Note that he did not state that it would provide any benefit to the users. 1 vague item about how to make DNR areas more accessible. Again with no specific reference as to it is to be accessible to or for what purposes.

- Pene's statement multiple times that approximately 80% of this funding came from motorized users and they intend to use it proportionately. In other words, not a single pro-OHV statement was issued from Pene's or Mark's lips but they will give lip service to the OHV users who provided the money while using it to fund bureaucrats working in offices doing paperwork so staffing levels are maintained on our nickel.

- Their goal to "block up" and increase their land holdings in the Ahtanum area by about 50% which will make it easier for them to manage (lock it up?) it. Wait a minute! They are short of money but buying more land that will produce no income????

- Mark actually admitting the DNR was "lobbying" the Legislature even when it is illegal (as I understand it) for government agencies to do so. Someone finally honest enough to admit the lunatics are in charge of the asylum or just being pragmatic and honest about it? Yes, every State Agency in Olympia has their own paid lobbyist (Legislative Liaison) but no one in any Agency has ever before stated the actual "L" word, lobbying!

  • 1oldx

Posted 09 June 2007 - 08:57 PM

#11

Thanks to all you guys watching out for the riders.



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