Oh oooooh

[BWB63]

Plane and simple, that is wrong but, I have heard the real dry weight of the XR650R is 284 pound but, I have not weighed a dry bike, I don't think anyone could. It's no fluids of any kind, no fork fluid, shock fluid , radiator fluid, oil, grease, spit, heaters on for 0% humitity, rediculous number. I figure fuel at 8 pounds a gallon.

We know you are in love with this "not yet, miracle bike"

You have been dearming of this being the ultmate XR650R killer for months now.

and push it over and over again on these threads; as found here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5148634#post5148634

here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5227588#post5227588

Here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4861023#post4861023

It's just a dream at this point.........

I will be happy to be wrong with the weight, I hope it's a great bike but, this is a HONDA XR650R forum and so far the XR650R has been the best choice for the big bore open desert bike.

[rmhrc630]

Plane and simple, that is wrong.

We know you are in love with this "not yet, miracle bike"

You have been dearming of this being the ultmate XR650R killer for months now.

and push it over and over again on these threads; as found here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5148634#post5148634

here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5227588#post5227588

Here:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4861023#post4861023

It's just a dream at this point.........

I will be happy to be wrong with the weight, I hope it's a great bike but, this is a HONDA XR650R forum and so far the XR650R has been the best choice for the big bore open desert bike.

Of course this is a 650 forum, but it is also a forum where comparisons get made to other NEWER bikes whether you like it or not.

All your posts prove is that you are resistant to change. That's fine. I am more than willing to give a new bike the go as it credit is needed where it's due. You clearly dont agree with that.

Facts are the 690:

1. Weighs the same as the 650R

2. Makes it seems at least 10% more HP (62 v 55 for an XR)

3. Carries about 40-50% more fuel STOCK

4. Has EFI and E start and weighs the same as the XR!!!! Hilarious.

5. Has ergos which suggest (although unproven) it will handle better.

The 690 is no dream - it is being released to the public in April 08:

http://ktm.com.au/news.php?newsid=1019

What's the point of continually rubbing your nose in it? The point of all my focus on this new hard enduro is that this MIGHT spur Honda on to making something like what KTM are actually making.

Seems to me you'd put up with crap from Honda until the cows come home. I dont and made what I think they should have.

There are also thousands of other riders who have abandoned Honda big bores due to better offerings from other manufacturers.

You clearly know a bucket load about Honda big bores as you are an enthusiast like me, but I am so bored with same old same old from Honda which is why I am enthusiastic about a new hard enduro offroad bike.

I am surprised you arent more welcoming of this bike - for one it spurs on competition and makes manufacturers releases better bikes. Which is good for all of us.

Seems to me you have no faith in Honda to release a better big bore than the 650R - why? Do you think nothing whatsoever needs changing on it?

I have every faith they can - they have the technical and economic resources but they are lazy and appear to treat their greatest supporters with contempt.

Tell me in 2 years what you are going to say to a new member on this forum who comes on and asks a guru like you which bike to buy? Using the current situation you will have to say "buy a 2 old year XR650R - they don't make them anymore but they are great" or buy a brand new 690.

Do you honestly think that line of thinking is sustainable?

[BWB63]

I am not restant to change.......TE510 is in the works. I just think you have no proff that this bike weighs anything close to the XR650R.

So far I see a dry weight of 297 pounds? This bike is looking to be twenty pounds (that would be 44kg more weight before you add the fluids) a 350 pound bike full of fuel, that's 26 pounds heavier then my bike full of fuel with it's desert tank, skid plate, stearing dampner, bark busters, blinkers, lights, case guard and all the other little extra's. You just don't get it! The XR650R is a Big Fat PIG! This bike is a Great Pumpkin off of Carlie Brown! The XR650R with the HRC is 64bhp and is still cheaper with the HRC installed then this pumpkin will be. KTM690 is a 650cc bike and will be the best XR650L replacement if you can afford it. After the smog stuff gets put on for sale in the U.S.A. kiss your 64bhp goodby. The XR650R was deseigned to be 64bhp (the HRC cam/piston and the Moriwaki exhaust was the first bike) but, it couldn't make it here because of CARB and the AQMD so, we got this corked up BFRP

[weskc35k]

I read the 690 weighed 157kg somewhere.

[hill5150]

Of course this is a 650 forum, but it is also a forum where comparisons get made to other NEWER bikes whether you like it or not. ( We don't like KTM clearly for a lot of reasons, they are as reliable as a drunk politician......)

All your posts prove is that you are resistant to change. That's fine. I am more than willing to give a new bike the go as it credit is needed where it's due. You clearly dont agree with that.

Facts are the 690:

(Not a fact......)

1. Weighs the same as the 650R

(Definately not true)

2. Makes it seems at least 10% more HP (62 v 55 for an XR)

(It seems or maybe or........? thought we were looking at facts? )

3. Carries about 40-50% more fuel STOCK

(BFD.... who uses their stock tank ever in the DEZ?)

4. Has EFI and E start and weighs the same as the XR!!!! Hilarious.

( E-start is for poosies, and weight isn't the issue, it's whether an overpriced KTM can actually get you where you want to go w/out the aid of a truck....)

5. Has ergos which suggest (although unproven) it will handle better.

(Ergos?....Wow that's amazing.....)

The 690 is no dream ( You got that right for once......? ) - it is being released to the public in April 08:

http://ktm.com.au/news.php?newsid=1019

What's the point of continually rubbing your nose in it? The point of all my focus on this new hard enduro is that this MIGHT spur Honda on to making something like what KTM are actually making.( Do you think they are watching us now????HONDA that is....Hmmmmmmm)

Seems to me you'd put up with crap from Honda until the cows come home. I dont and made what I think they should have.

( Not really sure quite what was it was that being to be conveyed is with.......? )

There are also thousands of other riders who have abandoned Honda big bores due to better offerings from other manufacturers.

( Name one..........That's a challenge.........)

You clearly know a bucket load about Honda big bores as you are an enthusiast like me, but I am so bored with same old same old from Honda which is why I am enthusiastic about a new hard enduro offroad bike.

I am surprised you arent more welcoming of this bike ( It's a 650R forum Einstein) - for one it spurs on competition and makes manufacturers releases better bikes. Which is good for all of us.

Seems to me you have no faith in Honda to release a better big bore than the 650R - why? ( It's not a matter of faith, it's the corporate dollar making the decisions, not us........) Do you think nothing whatsoever needs changing on it?

I have every faith they can - they have the technical and economic resources but they are lazy and appear to treat their greatest supporters with contempt.

Tell me in 2 years what you are going to say to a new member on this forum who comes on and asks a guru like you which bike to buy? ( A 650R, but of course....)Using the current situation you will have to say "buy a 2 old year XR650R - they don't make them anymore but they are great" or buy a brand new 690. ( The 2-3-4-5-6-7 year old Honda 650R will still outrun any KTM out there, hands down, you can ask Johnny Campbell and Team Honda that...)

Do you honestly think that line of thinking is sustainable?

( )

[BWB63]

HILL5150 you always have such an eloquent way with getting the truth across ?

I have given up on this, constant rambling about how wounderful the KTM is against the XR650R, form a guy that has never owned one. The XR600R even my old 628cc racer is nothing like the XR650R but......?

The worst thing is he can't remember the numbers from one day to the next. It is a dream bike for him.....he will never buy the KTM ether.

[hill5150]

Just callin it as I see it.........

[rmhrc630]

Just callin it as I see it.........

Just like I am

[hill5150]

Just like I am

Are you confused or in the wrong Forum......??

[XR680RR]

Baja 1000 is about two months? Well, we hopefully will see more of the Baja 690 KTM! Honda can't be perfect forever and they are on a "tricked to the max" CRF450, riders are getting better/older/younger/worn? so much to go wrong that money can't buy. It will be a major bummer for Honda if this KTM womps their precious CRF450 (that is not a CRF450 at all anyways), this is all about sales now. The XR650R was told to the world that is was winning the Baja races in stock form.....even this wasn't true. The first years the bikes had $5K+ just in the suspension, duel Exhaust, some say 680cc in the mid years, and cam, 11:1 piston, of course, then back down to a 10:1 piston but, always close to a stock HRC XR650R not, this CRF stroked, bored, trickest stuff in this solar system 450...wait 470? or what ever it is can't go another 200 miles when the race is over. This is where I agree (as most on this group yell) that only the true big bores can pull off the big desert races and still have much life left. This is why the KTM 690 would seem to be such a good choice to get into the advertizing race contest that Honda has turned the SCORE and BITD races into. It has worked well for Honda so, I can see why KTM would want to try this same sceem. First you got to win it then, get the bike you really want to sell to be your precious sales bike.....maybe the KTM530, 525 or what ever they seem to think will make them the most money. But, to think that an over weight bike with ergo, urangos, eggo's, what ever flat tank, spider web looking steel perimiter frame is the bike of the future

[pburke]

Facts are the 690:

1. Weighs the same as the 650R

2. Makes it seems at least 10% more HP (62 v 55 for an XR)

3. Carries about 40-50% more fuel STOCK

4. Has EFI and E start and weighs the same as the XR!!!! Hilarious.

And while we're comparing, let's qualify some of these statements somewhat. It's not like "having EFI and eStart" are actually of advantage, especially given KTM's track record with those itemsL

If the EFI is as "first try" as on the KTM 990, I sure don't want to have it! Take a look at the trouble folks are having with that bike over on ADVrider in the orange crush forum. And while you're there, check on the starter trouble all 950s have had since 2005...

When it comes to reliability, I will take my 650R any day over my KTM 950 (which has been sitting in the garage stone dead for 3 weeks now - $200+ in parts later and the POS still won't start. Looks like it is gonna need to go to the shop again, then wait weeks for parts...)

[Motosprtman]

Looks nice, I'll bet that will be a hit...

ah ... Yup!

[jbailey618]

So, the KTM 690 is a reality. My local dealer is stating that it will indeed be a production model for 2009 maybe earlier. Dual Sport like the KTM EXC line, and will likely be very similar to the prototype Chris Blais took to a 2nd place finish at the Baja 500.

Here is what I know about KTM. KTM is not like Honda, or any of the Japanese moto manufacturers. They truly believe in the Race Ready concept, what you see on the dealer floors is very much a competitive machine ready to race (More so than even Honda). The 690 was leading the Baja 500 by over 5 minutes when exhaust problems caused them to have to slow and pit for repairs. Titanium Header, and Carbon Fiber can just didn't prove to be durable enough for the Rigors of Baja. Remember this bike is completely new, has had very little development time, and only a day or so of testing in North America after very little time in the Netherlands testing. To be able to come out and put a 5 minute lead on the world premier Team Honda that has mastered the Baja race for years is impressive enough, but to do it on a new and unproven machine speaks volumes of it's potential.

The Xr650R is a great bike, no argument there. Just because KTM is bringing new technology and a better design to the table does not make the dated XR a pig. It is just progress. I own a KTM 450, and love the way the Austrians think and design their bikes. I am however looking for a XR650R to make a Dual Sport because I think for the money and what I want from a bike, there is currently no rival to the XR. If the KTM turns out to be as good as I believe it is, then maybe I'll give one a try. If Honda comes back to the table with another big bore then even better.

The people whining on here about the KTM are really missing one HUGE point. The more KTM pushes into this market, the more it may legitimize Honda to start listening to us and replace the XR with an even better big bore. Can you imagine a bike that is lighter, handles like a CRF450X, but with a 600 or 700 cc FI motor, stainless valves, no nonsense single overhead cam, E-start with a kick back up, Low CG fuel storage, and capable kayaba, or Showa suspension components combined with the legendary Nissin brake feel that Honda is known for, etc etc etc...

Honda can do it and make it reliable, so why not.

In the meantime KTM is building the market for us by creating what is obviously a VERY competitive machine that likely out handles and out runs what Honda is offering.

Honestly, we're looking at a RACE bike here. KTM doesn't build many liesure machines, so the flat ergos for better cornering, and what looks like a VERY low CG design with the fuel low in the chassis etc. It's hard to Imagine KTM coming to the table with a machine that was in any way inferior to the almost 8 year old XR650R, or even the new CRF450X. The real question lies in what you want out of a bike. If you want a reliable couch cushion comfy thumper that starts even after you've abused it, left it out in the rain for 2 months, don't like adjusting valves, and hasn't been washed in 6 mos, then the Honda is your bike. If you don't mind putting some dollars into the Suspension, lighting, Tank, Exhaust, and Engine, then the bike can obviously win races.

If you want to buy a bike that is bred just for winning races, and you treat it and maintain it like a race bike, then the KTM will likely be competitive right off of the dealers floors. I wouldn't count on it to be a comfy trail bike for plunking around the local sand washes with your kids on their little XR100's though. Remember, KTM is Race Ready and they usually mean it.

As for the Ergonomic argument: Trust me, the XR is comfy, but you just can't get up on the front wheel enough to get as aggressive in tight corners as you can on a CRF 450, or the new KTM 690, and as for the going over the bars theory.... I guess that is applicable if your slow and ride with your elbows pointing at the ground. I've never had a seat or tank save me from going over the bars.. it's always in the legs and arms, but I'm one of those riders that doesn't sit very often, and even when my but does hit the seat I'm still in a fairly aggressive stance, usually just weighting the bike to corner, or accelerating hard after a sweeper, or tight corner. Old school is exactly that... Old school. If you like sunday rides, then don't worry about it. If you somehow think that a bulbous fuel tank and "sit IN the bike" ergos are more competitive, then it may be time to replace your high point boots, put the old jofa in the free bin at the garage sale, and start taking some tips from some of the faster moto guys.

[XR680RR]

Well the facts are out and the KTM 690 is a joke compared to the XR650R:

Less suspension, almost 2 inches (50mm)

305 pounds, 138kg dry weight vrs 277 (or 284 pounds without fuel, the bike does weigh 308 pounds with fuel) for the XR650R which ever you chose to believe. Ether way the KTM is a 21 pound heavier bike and full of fuel would be 345 pounds and almost 340 pounds with the same fuel that the XR650R carries.

Like borynack said, it was a nice dream bike.

rmhrc630 are you still going to run out and buy one?

Looks like the Numbers Borynack came up with were real close to right on the money. He stated 135kg and it turned out to be 138kg. Maybe the 138kg is with oil and 135kg is true dri weight?

[weskc35k]

XR the KTM is 150 something kg.

This is not a new bike nor is it a race bike it is an LC4 motor not new in an SXC625 frame,not new either.

At 10 inches of travel and these other specs it's a dual sport bike,and probably a very good one at that.

[rmhrc630]

Well the facts are out and the KTM 690 is a joke compared to the XR650R:

Less suspension, almost 2 inches (50mm)

305 pounds, 138kg dry weight vrs 277 (or 284 pounds without fuel, the bike does weigh 308 pounds with fuel) for the XR650R which ever you chose to believe. Ether way the KTM is a 21 pound heavier bike and full of fuel would be 345 pounds and almost 340 pounds with the same fuel that the XR650R carries.

Like borynack said, it was a nice dream bike.

rmhrc630 are you still going to run out and buy one?

Looks like the Numbers Borynack came up with were real close to right on the money. He stated 135kg and it turned out to be 138kg. Maybe the 138kg is with oil and 135kg is true dri weight?

stick your head in the sand - the XR is 135kg. DRY.

yes KTM have released a dual sport version - called the enduro.

australia will hopefull get the baja replica version. otherwise ktm have just allowed HOnda another life by dropping the suspension to a poofter sized 250mm. why they did this I dont know. :confused:

I like what modern technology brings us in all walks of life and think that Honda will be forced to stand and deliver a newer better big bore. That is why I was an immediate fan of the 690.

[weskc35k]

Actually a US model XR650r is 283 dry and 287(131kg) wet ie oils and water ready to race without fuel ,stock pipe uncorked.

The Aussie model dry,fluids no fuel was 136kg(299lbs).

Go to Scott Summers site he has it all weighed.

www.srcinc.net/html/101-103.html

It's 287 the XR ready to race no fuel no sidestand US model stock pipe uncorked.

Now the KTM on the other hand according to a Jeff Leisk who is head of KTM in Australia(and he might know) is 152kg dry ie fluids no fuel,sidestand unknown.

Remember the SXC 625 same donk at 146 dry was a big rig.

And again there is FA new technology on the new KTM.

RMHCR build a fence mate and GET OVER IT.

[hill5150]

stick your head in the sand - the XR is 135kg. DRY.

yes KTM have released a dual sport version - called the enduro.

australia will hopefull get the baja replica version. otherwise ktm have just allowed HOnda another life by dropping the suspension to a poofter sized 250mm. why they did this I dont know. :confused:

I like what modern technology brings us in all walks of life and think that Honda will be forced to stand and deliver a newer better big bore. That is why I was an immediate fan of the 690.

Seriously, have another one mateee. The 650 will destroy that 690 w/ my girlfriend riding it.....Worry about keeping it running first and then tackle the actual dirt......................

[hill5150]

(131kg)

RMHCR build a fence mate and GET OVER IT.

Seriously..Please.......

[BWB63]

Stock XR650R full of fuel on a calibrated scale at work was just over 308 pounds full of fuel. So, if you subtract the fuel you would be around 285. So, that sight would be close. There was an almost 4 pound reduction when we took off the stock header/muffler and installed the XR's only header and R4 muffler! That weight was put right back on with the skid plate. Later ready to ride on the street with 5 gallons of fuel in a desert tank, Streering stabilizer, alluminum skid plate, much lighter exhaust, shark fin, case guard, ultra duty tubes, extra wheel locks, Baja desiegn light kit and plate it was 324. Sorry your XR650R is so much heavier then ours but, the KTM 690 is not close to our XR650R.

In the end the Baja 690 was not the KTM 690 that KTM is putting on the market. Looks the same. The XR650R they use in the Baja isn't either but, it sure is close and not much more then anyone would do to race any bike pro.

I think like everything they start with a good idea race it and then it all falls apart when they try to make it sellable. They started with the right suspension and engine size but, then they went to the parts bin to find out how they could make it cheaper and get it passed the air quality Nazi's. The KTM 690 suspension being a linked suspension was sure a step in the right direction but, then the bike that is going to hit the floor isn't going to have even close to the suspension that the Bike that was raced in the Baja had. More then two inches less travel on one end and almost two on the other is stupid. Then advertize that it is the lightest big bore bike on the market and it's more then twenty pounds heavier then the XR650R! It is lighter then the XR650L but, not by much, not much at all! The 690 part sounds great till you find out it is a 654cc bike. The I heard down the grape vine it's going to have a cat in the exhaust like the other KTM big bore street bike, and with a charcoal what the:rant: IN the end it will be even closer to 154kg if that is true.

I haven't been around and trying to catch up on all this. My hard drive crashed and it's a mess to get everthing back the way it was. Glad I caught it just as it was going. I think I picked something up. Must have had a rip in the protection:excuseme:

Still try to catch up:

stick your head in the sand - the XR is 135kg. DRY.

yes KTM have released a dual sport version - called the enduro.

australia will hopefull get the baja replica version. otherwise ktm have just allowed HOnda another life by dropping the suspension to a poofter sized 250mm. why they did this I dont know. :confused:

I like what modern technology brings us in all walks of life and think that Honda will be forced to stand and deliver a newer better big bore. That is why I was an immediate fan of the 690.

Only one with their head in the sand is you. You won't look up the facts before you start bellowing about how wonderful KTM is on an XR650R sight.

The race bike might have been 690 or 700cc but, the 690 was alway on paper as a 654cc bike. Weight has always been at least 50kg/20 pounds heavier and less suspension. How this is a XR650R stomper is a joke. It's a silly looking bike at that.

Couldn't help it:p