OK, so who REALLY KNOWS HOW to buy a WR?



18 replies to this topic
  • Futura

Posted February 01, 2002 - 09:19 PM

#1

If I go out tomorrow to my two local Yamaha dealers and I want to get a superb deal on a WR426F, what do I ask for and how do I keep from getting reamed? How can I get a 'fantastic' price with goodies thrown in (what should I ask for, as goodies BEFORE delivery), a sweet financing deal, and the rest of it? You know, there's this car-buying advice service that you can get on the web and they tell you all this 'inside' stuff on how to negotiate with the dealers for a primo deal on a car, but how about for dirt bikes? I do want to buy a new bike -- even given the depreciation factor -- and then do any mods from a stone stocker for my own particular purposes... So, how should I behave, IYHO? Thanks to All in advance.

  • BFLee

Posted February 01, 2002 - 09:44 PM

#2

I justed looked on CycleTrader.com but could not find anybody advertising a good deal. Out here in California we seem to pay as much if not more than anywhere else for our bikes, but it seems that the demand has slowed down recently and there are some deals to be had. Beware of the dreaded setup and doc fees. Anything over $150 for setup is a rip off. Any doc fee is a rip off, why do they think they can charge extra for filling out some paperwork? Out here in CA, MSRP plus sales tax and DMV is a decent deal on any of the good 4 strokes. I have seen some pretty deep discounts on some 2 strokes, like $5100 for a CR250.

When buying a bike most dealers will offer a 10-20% discount on accessories for the bike. I would recommend getting the springs right off. The YZ seat and tank setup is awfully nice and I love my DR. D hot start. Like every Japanese bike, the stock bars are junk. If the dealer is offering a generous discount and you plan on riding frequently you might as well get a rear tire also, you will need it soon enough.

Other good 'throw-ins' are a loading ramp and Tie-downs.

If you have been out of the game for a while you probably need all new gear, don't forget the knee cups.

  • Ronin

Posted February 02, 2002 - 03:32 AM

#3

futura, I hate to tell you this but it is patience. allocate 1-2 weeks to purchase the bike, dont get to excited or discouraged. Go in the first day and look, if a salesperson wants to talk to you, introduce yourself so he remembers you and politely say that your wife, girlfriend would never let you buy one. then walk away from him and hop on that WR you want. Leave, go in two days later make sure the same salesperson is there, talk to them for about 1 minute only if they come up to you. Ask simple questions about the bike, be polite but slightly combative. walk out. come back two or three days later, talk to same salesperson and tell them you are thinking about buying a bike now, but dont know if yamaha is the right choice, mention another brand with glee in your eye. walk out, come back two days later, talk to same salesperson, cut deal. F.Y.I I paid $5300 out the door(including tax), with the throttle stop mod done, rejetted, and my first maint. paid for including valve check.

Hope this helps,
Ronin

Disclaimer, this is what I did, not Gods directions. There are other ways, this one is mine I sell cycles for a living.

  • Futura

Posted February 02, 2002 - 05:13 AM

#4

Thanks for the ideas, fellas. Hey, I am going to try something... I am going to FAX or email a whole bunch of Yamaha dealers in my region simultaneously, and I am going to tell them whoever gives me the best deal in reply is going to get my business. If I don't get a reply from somebody, I won't buy from them... I am also going to consider the one-on-one approach... but I'm not going to be sucked into any of that "Well, how much can you afford for a monthly payment?" and all of these other tricky-dicky tactics... Bottom line... I am patient, and if someone can't come through with a great price and the mods that I want, business will have been concluded... period.

  • BFLee

Posted February 02, 2002 - 06:50 AM

#5

Ronin,

Wow, thats a great deal.
I sure wish I could have my Silicon Valley salary somewhere that is not such a rip off to live in :)

  • Futura

Posted February 02, 2002 - 12:33 PM

#6

Yeah, BFLee, he did get a good one, didn't he? Hey, Ronin, I don't think I graciously thanked you enough for your advice... so, thanks... I am going to give it a try with the four nearest dealers...

And do you think it's worth trying to play one dealer off of another in negotiations? Ya know, like "Well, so-and-so is gonna give me x price and throw in such-and-such... and of course, I'm gonna need parts and service down the road, which is where a big chunk of bucks is for you... so, can you help me out a bit more with this?" kinda thing...

I've just found that dealers'teams often have a real dialed-in flow to how they handle customers, and once you're on their train, it's harder to get off of it...

What do you guys think about the fax idea? Fax blast a buncha dealers, and just say whoever's got the best deal in their reply gets my presence in their store for further discussion... Is that gonna work or, do most dealers' salespeople even give a $#!+? (No offense, Ronin... hope you won't take any).

Where I am at is, I want a good deal and I'm willing to give some to get some... Seriously, it's fair enough and clear enough to me that the business owner and the sales person should be getting something (profits) for their time and commitment and if they've got good product and service... I just don't want to get 'taken advantage of' by a cagey sales process... which I have been -- embarassingly enough -- in the past...

Hey, if you've got anything further, I've got ears. And thanks BFLee -- Good Luck with finding a less Silicon Valley deal in your future... hey, you can't EVER get it if you don't start hunting for it.

Over and Out.

  • Ronin

Posted February 02, 2002 - 01:40 PM

#7

Futura, to play one dealer off of another may be getting in a bit over your head. The reason for this is that you do not know the relationships between the dealerships. without knowing this you really cant play one off of the other, also, depending on the kind of day the salesperson/owner is having you might just get yourself in a pickle and have to eat your words. it may go something like this...."well, $5800 is a good price but XYZ Yamaha can do it for $5600 with a helmet thrown in", (salesperson) "wow, sounds like a good deal, why dont you go get it then and quite wasting my time?" then he walks away. Just remember, NEVER, EVER, lie to a salesperson. You may get away with it sometimes but it really sucks when you get caught. just remeber that the salesperson you deal with has all day to find a flaw in your tactics if he gets pissed, cause thats his job. so dont lie, or even tell half truths. I dont mean to offend you but I myself have tried to lie about a price to a salesperson on a few different occasions, one in particular comes to mind, the last time......a quick phonecall was made to his "friend" at another dealership was made and I was busted. anyways, about the faxing idea, you may not get taken very seriously doing that but hell, its worth a try. If you do it make sure to follow up the fax with a confirmation call and take the persons name down that you talked with. another tip when looking for the bike is to exert confidence with how you dress. beleive it or not, I actually put on my best suit and tie when vehicle, appliance, or anything else over $500. On my dirtbike I dressed well (suite, tie, wingtips) everytime I went into the dealership. I washed my vehicle everytime I went into the dealership and I parked in front of the door and acted like I was quite busy and did not have much time to spend. The salespeople will take you very seriously, I guarentee. I know that all this sound cheesey, but it works. the first impression is the only one that counts. Make em think you have the $$$ but you are a tight ass to boot.

Later,
Ronin

  • huskyrider

Posted February 02, 2002 - 03:32 PM

#8

Futura,
Everybody has there own best way to make a dealer purchase. I've purchased quite a number of new bikes and cars/trucks for myself and my business.
This is the formula I follow.
1 -determine market value(leader ads in newspaper that say one only at this price, or for bikes by asking racers riding what I'm interested in what they paid) this number is my offer to buy price
2- wait until the 20th of the month and go to 2 or 3 dealers and let them know they and 2 others are being dealt with.
3- if I'm financing I ask them to run my credit prior to making my offer, if paying in full I give them my bankers card and tell them to call him to verify that I can pay in full with certified funds upon closing the deal.
4- I make my offer and leave them my card, tell them I have business to attend to and leave. If they don't call back the same day, I'll call the following morning and find out from the salesman if they want the deal.
5- if the answer is no, I ask the salesman to give the offer to his manager again and remind him that I'm sincere in making the purchase and have made the same offer to other dealers and am fixing to call them back also.
6- I call back 3 or 4 days later and let them know I'm still willing to buy at my offer, if they still won't do it I wait 2 days and try again then I wait till the last day of the month and go to the dealers one at a time,
have my salesman tell the manager I'd like to speak to him personally. I let him know that I believe my offer fair and ask if he really wants to move the unit because when I leave I'm going to the next dealer to do the same.
only on 2 occasions has this formula failed me.
NEVER TAKE MORE THAN A QUICK TEST DRIVE AND NEVER BECOME EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO A BIKE OR CAR YOU WANT TO BUY.
I've had numerous salesmen tell me that I was the easiest PENCILHEAD to deal with because it was always over the phone and not time consuming for them.
By the way I paid $6000.00 out the door on my
01-WR426. This was $500.00 more than my initial offer but it was the week before christmas and my 2 prior offers were $1000.00 less than what they wanted. It says something about your sincerity if you meet them halfway.
DON'T PAY RETAIL FOR LAST YEARS BIKE.
have fun and good luck

  • Bryce_Senff

Posted February 02, 2002 - 05:16 PM

#9

Hey Futura,
When looking for a vehicle and dealing with salesmen....Never ask them what kind of deal they can give you. Make them an offer on the low, low side. They come back with a counter offer, and then you make a final offer.(Period!)
I paid 5,600.00 +tax&orv tabs. The sales manager came up to me and said " You don't look like Robin Hood!"(referring to my lowball offer) They also made one other small insult which I used against them.
I told them my Father sold Caddies for the premier dealership in the area and I was also
a local roadracer in the state. I flat out told them "I know how you make your money in this business. Now, do we have a deal or not? and I do not appreciate being insulted
by the employees of this dealership"
It took me about 2 hours of hagling with them, but I got out with the deal I was expecting to pay. I also got 20% off parts & acces. Don’t be afraid to stand up to the wolves, be polite of course, but be very firm!
Good luck,
Bryce

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • daveee

Posted February 02, 2002 - 06:19 PM

#10

The best way is to lie to a dealer..

"Dealer X quoted me this much (some bull$hit amount). What can you do for me today?"

Works wonders. The margins they have to play with are surprisingly big!

  • TeamScream

Posted February 02, 2002 - 07:06 PM

#11

Heheh, these are all good ideas for sure. One thing I did was shopped untill I found a dealer that would register the bike for street legal use before I rolled it off the showroom floor, and they did it!, I basically went in ready to buy, made the offer I was happy with, then said oh yeah...I am making a super motard out of it so it has to be street legal. I got a CA plate less than 2 weeks later and didnt put any of the street legal stuff on it (mirror, turn signals etc) until I got my first ticket! :D So I am living proof that most dealers will tell you no they wont do that until you walk out the door on them a few times, bottom line...even if your new bike will never see the street, register it anyway...it makes the resale HUGE down the road when the new WR520's come out (or whatever). :)

  • '00_in_Calgary

Posted February 02, 2002 - 07:43 PM

#12

I did the fax thing with my local dealer last year on my RC51. It worked like a champ. I let each of the local dealers know who they were competing with and said that on THIS date, which was 3 days later, the lowest price got the deal. I even phoned them and made sure they had recieved the fax to make sure it was brought to their attention. I tossed in a few accessories for them to pay with margins, and in the end payed about $800 less that if I'd walked in and bought the scoot at their best previous price and the parts with the 20% discount.

So... That time and with that bike it worked.

  • Futura

Posted February 03, 2002 - 06:36 AM

#13

OK, just so I straighten things out on "telling a dealer that another dealer is offering me x..." --when I said that, I didn't mean that I was going to lie to the dealer / salesperson... I meant, that I would HAVE AN OFFER established with another dealer(s), and I'd be pressing this guy I'm talking to, to go it one better... Like it's been said, many dealers know each other in an area / region and, sure, they compete, but they also help each other out and people know each other... So, even being aware of that, I'm still thinkin' "Hey, how can I use the local competition for sales (and the internal sales cycle -- e.g. buy at end of month or -- BETTER -- end of year) to get the best deal...

Honestly, I WANT to work with this one local dealer of Kaw/Yam... These guys have been in business forever... I get my KLR650 serviced there, and I have a decent acquaintance with the service mgr... I'd like to see these guys continue to thrive -- no $#!+, that's how I FEEL about it -- and I'd prefer to have a RELATIONSHIP with the people there... OK, but still, I've never bought a bike from them and it's BUSINESS, and they are going to try to profit as much as possible... even IF they know that I'll show up at their parts and service departments for years (where there's a lot more at stake than even the sale of the original bike)... Given all of this, I still want to get the bike as inexpensively as possible...

So, I'm to play the field and see what kind of deal I can get ON THE BIKE SALE... If I can ultimately leverage my local dealer for the best BIKE PRICE/DEAL by using others' deal offers as lever points, that'd be perfect... But, if ultimately somebody else has THE BEST deal for me, I'll go get the bike at their place... Then, still, my local 'relationship' guy is STILL going to see me buying parts and service from his shop... it's simply a matter of convenience for me, and he's right there... he doesn't really lose that, anyway...

Now, is this local guy gonna give me the best deal on the bike with the goodies I want/need? Maybe...

Does any of this bull$#!+ make sense to you guys? Or, am I just fartin' and stinkin', here? Thanks for your input, more than by the way... You're a buncha gems... I mean it.

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted February 03, 2002 - 06:53 AM

#14

Please do somthing quick! I can't wait to see how it turns out. Good luck!! :)

  • newto2wheels

Posted February 03, 2002 - 06:56 AM

#15

Hey,I'm in the same boat, trying to purchase a WR, I've been looking at new and used ones. Just to let you guys know, my local Yamaha dealer comes to this forum all the time. I think they have it online at the dealership. They told me about the little things you can do to get the most out of a WR, and told me to check out ThumpeTalk.com for more info. Just thought I would let you know while your all talking about getting a good deal on the WR.

  • streamdream

Posted February 03, 2002 - 08:43 AM

#16

This works for me.

First, I go to a dealership in my town that sells over 4000 (yes four thousand) units of ATV, snowmobile and dirtbikes a year. I get to know them, especially the owner. The cardinal rule in dealing, is to ONLY DEAL WITH A PERSON THAT HAS THE POWER TO MAKE DECISIONS. If you deal with a salesman, they can say "they have to check with the manager" who you never see and accept as a "final say". Avoid this by DEALING WITH THE PERSON WHO HAS THE POWER TO MAKE THE DECISION.

Next, I go to any of the auto/moto price sites on line, and find out what they paid for the bike. Then, I ask a competing dealer what the problems are with the dealer I'm dealing with. They might say "hey, they don't pass on the factory incentive", or " they are so big they get volume discounts". I use this info when dealing with the dealer I've selected. Never forget to ask about this. Also, ask competitors what the factory requires the dealer to do for set-up. Do they require altitute jetting/carb set up for where you live...for example. Be sure this gets done and it is included in your package. I know dealers who do minimum set up, then charge the factory the labor to do all of the stuff they should have done for you. This difference adds to their bottom line.

Next, I let them know that I am trying to build a long-term relationship with them...not just buy a bike. If I bought a bike from them previously, I remind them that they have already made a huge profit off me last time. I write down how much they made off me last time and write what I expect they will make off me this time, add them up, and push that number in front of them. Take it from me, they get real embarrased. Leave the number on the table between the two of you.

Lastly, if you need money,get it from a local credit union...not a dealer unless they have low rates over the entire term of the deal. Usually this is factory sponsored. You can get money 1-2 points lower from your credit union.

One more thing, get everything in writing. Free oil change? First check up? Be sure you know what you will pay for these things in writing.

You are making a business deal. Their job is to make as much money as possible...your job is to save as much as possible. They know their business very well, you should too. :D :)

  • suzukman

Posted February 03, 2002 - 09:03 AM

#17

Hello Futura. I think you are getting some good advise here, but as you are finding out yourself each experence is going to be different for everyone. Example, depending on where you live and what the current market is, will decide how willing the dealer will work with you! If for example you live in a hot spot for motorcycles they know someone will give them what they want! If motorcycles aren't selling very good in the area they are willing to take less of a profit. Just remember, they have bills to pay to and a family to feed, but they don't need to make more than a FAIR profit off you. It is also a matter of supporting your local dealer to, if he were not there where would you have to go? My advise, call around in your area to a couple of dealers and get the best price you can, then go to your local dealer and give him the chance to either meet or beat the price! A good point said earlier by you is the parts thing. Who ever you do buy from go for the 20% off parts deal to. Good luck

  • newto2wheels

Posted February 03, 2002 - 01:21 PM

#18

I TALKED TO MY YAMAHA DEALER HERE A WEEK AGO ABOUT PURCHASING A NEW 01WR426, AND SINCE IT WAS AN 01, HE SAID HE COULD KNOCK OFF AT LEAST $300 FROM MSRP OR HE COULD WRITE IT UP AS MSRP AND THROW IN "GOODIES" LIKE MAINTENENCE STUFF AND RIDING GEAR I MIGHT NEED. I'VE BUILT A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM FOR OVER 4 YEARS. WHEN I WAS RACING QUADS, I NEEDED SOME 2 STROKE OIL TO RACE ON EASTER WEEKEND, I WAS AT WORK AND UNABLE TO GET TO THE STORE BEFORE THEY CLOSED FOR THE LONG WEEKEND, AND THE OWNER SET 2 BOTTLES OF OIL BY THE BACK DOOR FOR ME. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO BUT THEY SUPPORT THE RIDERS MORE THAN ANY OTHER DEALER AROUND. I'VE ALWAYS REMEMBERED THAT AND IF I CHOOSE A NEW WR, I WILL GET IT FROM THEM. THAT IS THE KIND OF DEALERSHIP THAT GIVES YOU NOT ONLY A GOOD DEAL BUT GOOD SERVICE AFTER THE SALE. GOOD LUCK FINDING A DEALER.

  • Futura

Posted February 03, 2002 - 03:53 PM

#19

HEY, YOU'VE GOT TO COME HERE AND READ WHAT I'VE GOT TO SAY ABOUT HOW TO BUY ANY BIKE!

Arm yourself as a consumer! Go to ATVcost.com, and for $9.95 you can get a report that tells the following about a bike. Not every manufacturer or model is represented, but here's what I found out about a 2002 Yamaha WR426F:

(1) List Price: $6199
(2) Dealer Invoice price: $5243 (includes FREIGHT!)
(3) Assembly Cost: $20
(4) Ready to Sell Cost = (3) + (4) = $5263
(5) Holdback: 3% of list price or, $6199 x 0.03 = $185.97 -- which the dealer gets at the end of the year for selling a WR426F;
(6) Wholesale incentives: "None known"
(7) The "Ready to Sell cost" is the cost to the dealer to put the bike on the showroom floor. If you press a dealer to buy at his cost, he can't profit, and HE'LL GO OUT OF BUSINESS with too many deals like that! (So, be considerate of the dealer -- he needs to make a profit to stay in business! And more dealers = competition among dealers which, among other things, makes the market better for us as consumers);
(8) If you add the dealer's "selling price" to what he says he wants to charge for "Freight & Setup," and then subtract the "Ready to Sell cost," you get the amount of profit the dealer wants to make. So, if the dealer says he wants MSRP $6199 + $500 for freight and setup = $6699 (+ tax, doc fees, yada yada etc.) then he's wanting to make $6699 - $5263 = $1463 profit, plus any yada yada, etc. that he tries to add into your bill. PLUS, the dealer gets his holdback ($186) at the end of the year... so, he's gonna profit $1463 + $186 = $1649 + yada yada, etc. doc fees and crapola...

SO, what do you think is a fair profit for the deal? You can really DEAL with your dealer by showing him that you know what you are talking about when you go into the shop armed with your info.

Fax blast a bunch of dealers with a letter that lays out that you know what the cost is, setup, holdback... don't write it all out, just tell him that you want to buy by a certain date, that you know what the story is, you want a good deal, and then sit back and wait for replies. Or, go to several dealers and, without being a real dick about it (Nobody likes that, and you want a relationship that is good for you, the dealer, and the sport, right?), and lay it out.

Try it and I bet that you'll do a LOT better at making YOUR DEAL... Do business and then ride knowing you got exactly the right deal for you.

As a final point, remember that for any bike, market demand is going to set how much the dealer is going to flex... If you're asking for a really in-demand bike, the dealer may not flex much because he CAN sell it for a higher price to another guy who doesn't know what you know.

Do this kind of thing as your approaching the end of a month, a quarter (March, June, September) or probably best, end of the year... that's when they're trying to get those final numbers.

What do you think about this?




 
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