Buying oil filters in bulk, where?


40 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted April 23, 2007 - 09:02 PM

#21

That would be good, but that is probably the price of one of the lower cost knock-offs. A Scotts is about $65, and well worth every dime.

  • 127

Posted April 24, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#22

Yeah I do realize that the internet is cheaper most of the time and if I have a question I can ask about it here and get a detailed answer but... I'm sorry Grey Racer - I wish your local shops weren't such asses b/c my dealership is more than helpful. I enjoy being able to go to the shop and talk about this past weeks racing and shoot the moon while bench racing.

I just ordered a brand new top end for my 07 YZ 450 with high compression piston and I'm looking into replacing intake and exhaust valves... even with the 15% hard parts discount at the shop I'll be reaching deep to pay for it but I know that they will be right there to help me with it all and hopefully it's business like mine that keeps them around.

10 oil filters lasts me 5-7 months changing every other oil change (everyother ride).

  • black_n_blue_thumper

Posted April 24, 2007 - 06:37 AM

#23

OK, I'm buying into the Scott's Stainless Steel Micronic Oil Filter sales pitch. Can you save me some search time and let me know who has the best price? $40.-$50. sounds good.


Cheaper knockoff that has worked very well for a few of my buddies
http://www.rockymoun...rodFamilyId=904

Another option
http://www.motosport...AHA;YZF450;2006

The real deal.....and from Thumper Talk:thumbsup:
http://shop.thumpert...ssoilfilter.htm

  • grayracer513

Posted April 24, 2007 - 09:36 AM

#24

I know of two CRT's that have fallen apart in one way or other.

So far, I'm not terribly impressed with the Ready, either. Too many unanswered questions.

I just had a friend at a diesel shop test my oldest Scotts, and in a single pass, it removed 100% of all debris larger than 33 microns (0.033mm, or 0.0013"). It's 4 years old. That's where it is for me.

  • Bikermice

Posted April 24, 2007 - 09:57 AM

#25

[quote name='grayracer513']I know of two CRT's that have fallen apart in one way or other.

Can you be a little more specific please? How did they fall apart, if you know?....I'm interested in the CRT's. Big price difference from Scott's. Thanks

  • grayracer513

Posted April 24, 2007 - 12:56 PM

#26

On one, the bypass valve fell apart. On the CRT, it is held in the end frame by an allen screw, rather than a pressed in plug. The parts were all found in the filter, but the filter was doing little or nothing for however long the bypass valve was open.

The seam opened up on the other one.

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted April 24, 2007 - 01:21 PM

#27

They filter to 35 microns when new.


Damn. That's really, really small. The unaided eye can only see to 40 microns.

I think I might just have to give the Scotts a try Gray.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 24, 2007 - 02:01 PM

#28

Paper and mesh filters take a fundamentally different approach to filtering. Mesh filters filter down to a certain size, and for practical purposes, no smaller than that. They do, however, only require a single pass to filter to that level. They work by simply having a very strictly controlled mesh size, through which a spherical object larger than that size cannot pass. They are rated in "absolute" terms, as with the Scotts (35μm "absolute"). This rating tells you that nothing larger than 35μm (35 microns) will pass through it. (1 micron, or micrometer more correctly, is 1/1,000,000 of a meter, or 0.001 mm, or 0.000039")

Mesh filters are able to achieve this level of filtration with remarkably low resistance to fluid flow as well, which in the case of the Scotts means that the bypass valve will not open on cold starts, and there will be no appreciable pressure loss across the filter.

"Paper" filters are different. They can stop even finer debris than mesh filters, but they also allow some larger debris to pass. They filter somewhat the same way a thick shrub catches objects thrown into it. Most tennis balls get stuck, but not all. An occasional golf ball gets caught, but an occasional soccer ball passes through to balance that out.

The random arrangement and density of the fibers in the element create odd and irregular gaps through which debris can pass. This creates little crotches of sorts that enable the filter to catch extremely small debris, but also creates gaps that allow it to pass ridiculously large material at other times. The paper element media is also three dimensional to a degree, whereas mesh is essentially two dimensional; if something passes through one opening in the mesh, it's through, which isn't necessarily the case with fiber media.

Fiber, or paper, filters can stop debris as fine as 20 microns, or even less. But, they won't stop it all on the first pass. Worse yet, they won't stop all of the debris even as large as 90 microns or more on the first pass, and some particles occasionally come free of the filter to re-enter the oil stream. They are considered multi-pass filters, which carries the expectation that the same debris will pass through the system multiple times before being intercepted. They will be given "Beta" ratings like "80/25", which tells you that it will stop 80% of all 25 micron particles on the first pass. However, they will rarely publish the fact that they may very well also test at 85/35 or 85/40, and certainly will not mention that they tested at only 95/60 (95% of 60 micron debris).

Additionally, paper filters resist oil flow, particularly when cold, a great deal more than does mesh, and cold starts often cause a paper filter to bypass. In the Scotts filter, a one inch square of the mesh media they use will flow 1.9 gallons of cold 90 weight gear oil per minute at only 1 psi pump pressure (70 degrees F). The YZ filter contains about 15 sq/in of mesh, which means that the media itself has the ability to flow over 28 GPM of cold 90 weight at 1 psi. The pump at the corner gas station is less than half that fast on a good day. That figure is also far beyond the delivery capabilities of the engine oil pump in any case. That basically means that unless you run half a shop rag through your engine, the Scotts filter will never bypass under any conceivable circumstance, and will filter at full capacity regardless of temperature. This is often not the case with "paper" filters, which commonly open the bypass valve during warmup operation.

So, it isn't a black and white, indisputable, one's better than the other kind of choice, but in my opinion, the 35 micron stainless mesh is the way to go, and Scotts makes the best example of that type of filter. Let me also point out that there is a huge difference between the medical grade stainless steel mesh used in Scotts filters and the OEM brass screen filters used in YZF's up until '03. The brass filters will filter no finer than 70-80 microns absolute, which is not nearly acceptable, IMO.


This post has been promoted to a wiki

  • SXP

Posted April 24, 2007 - 03:03 PM

#29

Paper and mesh filters take a fundamentally different approach to filtering. Mesh filters filter down to a certain size, and for practical purposes, no smaller than that. They do, however, only require a single pass to filter to that level. They work by simply having a very strictly controlled mesh size, through which a spherical object larger than that size cannot pass. They are rated in "absolute" terms, as with the Scotts (35μm "absolute"). This rating tells you that nothing larger than 35μm (35 microns) will pass through it.

Mesh filters are able to achieve this level of filtration with remarkably low resistance to fluid flow, as well, which in the case of the Scotts means that the bypass valve will not open on cold starts, and there will be no appreciable pressure loss across the filter.

"Paper" filters are different. They can stop even finer debris than mesh filters, but they also allow some larger debris to pass. They filter somewhat the same way a thick shrub catches objects thrown into it. Most tennis balls get stuck, but not all. An occasional golf ball gets caught, but an occasional soccer ball passes through to balance that out.

The random arrangement and density of the fibers in the element create odd and irregular gaps through which debris can pass. The paper element media is also three dimensional to a degree, whereas mesh is essentially two dimensional; if something passes through one opening in the mesh, it's through, which isn't necessarily the case with fiber media.

Fiber, or paper, filters can stop debris as fine as 20 mircons, or even less. But, they won't stop it all on the first pass, and won't stop all of the debris even as large as 90 microns on the first pass. They are usually considered multi-pass filters, which carries the expectation that the same debris will pass through the system multiple times before being intercepted. They will be given "Beta" ratings like "80/25", which tells you that it will stop 80% of all 25 micron particles on the first pass. However, they will rarely publish the fact that they also test at 85/35 or 85/40, and certainly not mention that they tested at only 95/60 (95% of 60 micron debris).

Additionally, paper filters resist oil flow, particularly when cold, a great deal more than does mesh, and cold starts often cause the filter to bypass.

So, it isn't a black and white, indisputable, one's better than the other kind of choice, but in my opinion, the 35 micron stainless mesh, is the way to go, and Scotts makes the best example of that type of filter.


That is the most succinct and articulate (as usual) low-down on the two different types of filters I have read. Thank you! :applause:

  • Bikermice

Posted April 24, 2007 - 04:43 PM

#30

Check this out. Less than 4.00/ filter....... http://dratv.com/1079120.html
OIL FILTER WR YZ TTR YFM 250 350 400 BIG BEAR KODIAK ++

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • FinchFan194

Posted December 26, 2009 - 03:11 PM

#31

Gray what do you think about this SS oil filter?
http://www.mooseraci...t_group_id=8913

  • NortonMoto

Posted December 26, 2009 - 05:00 PM

#32

The best price for oil filter!

http://www.powerspor...p/tr14-0141.htm

  • grayracer513

Posted December 26, 2009 - 10:13 PM

#33

Gray what do you think about this SS oil filter?
http://www.mooseraci...t_group_id=8913

I think it's a cheap off-shore knock off of a Scotts, probably made in China, and obviously built with stamped end frames rather than billet parts. You get what you pay for.

  • Charlie755

Posted December 27, 2009 - 01:57 AM

#34

I buy the Parts Unlimited filters at the local dealership. I buy 12 at a time and they come out to about $4.00 a filter. Just my .02

  • FinchFan194

Posted December 27, 2009 - 08:47 AM

#35

I think it's a cheap off-shore knock off of a Scotts, probably made in China, and obviously built with stamped end frames rather than billet parts. You get what you pay for.


Okay I will just buy a Scotts. Just seems like Moose makes some pretty decent parts for decent prices.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 27, 2009 - 09:08 AM

#36

Okay I will just buy a Scotts. Just seems like Moose makes some pretty decent parts for decent prices.

Their quality is somewhat variable. All of their stuff is repackaged and re-branded, made by someone else. I used to use their levers on Junior's bike before I got ASV's. They were more likely to break than OEM, and couldn't be straightened as many times, but they were $5 instead of $20. The front sprocket I bought from them wore out twice as fast as OEM. I don't want an oil filter at that level of quality.

Remember that a Scotts may seem costly, but if treated well, it's permanent.

  • Roost ED

Posted December 28, 2009 - 12:42 AM

#37

Paper and mesh filters take a fundamentally different approach to filtering. ....

So, it isn't a black and white, indisputable, one's better than the other kind of choice, but in my opinion, the 35 micron stainless mesh is the way to go, and Scotts makes the best example of that type of filter. Let me also point out that there is a huge difference between the medical grade stainless steel mesh used in Scotts filters and the OEM brass screen filters used in YZF's up until '03. The brass filters will filter no finer than 70-80 microns absolute, which is not nearly acceptable, IMO.


Convinced me
Just ordered scotts filter for my YZ's and TTR's
Thnks! :moon:

  • quantoo

Posted June 25, 2010 - 07:36 PM

#38

This may be an old thread, but i sure as hell are sold like a friggin hotcake on the scott stainess filter now.+ to sxp .The most imformative artice on filters i have ever heard of.
Death to all paper elements i say!

  • pcoakle1

Posted January 27, 2011 - 11:55 AM

#39

Gray,

You are the man.

  • Vegas426

Posted March 08, 2011 - 02:41 PM

#40

Very informative post, thanks. I decided to buy my first stainless oil filter (PC Racing from Motosport, Inc. $29.99) and this post makes me glad I did. Have to search for cleaning filter posts, too.





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