Shifting problems on my 06 450f (Index Lever)


73 replies to this topic
  • skidooboy

Posted August 15, 2007 - 03:37 AM

#41

thanks for posting the picks rick.



ok my inner clutch will look alittle different than the stock clutch outer hub as my bike is in supermoto trim and has a hinson slipper clutch.

drain the oil from the motor.

take off the 7 screws for the outer clutch covermark them for which hole they go in prior to removal as there are several different lengths and it does matter where they go.

next remove the clutch cover in a criss cross pattern alittle at a time till the pressure is off the clutch springs. pull the push arm out, note the ball bearing in the end, do not lose it. note which way the clutch pack is put together, mark it and take all the plates and steels out so you can put them back in the same way they came out. remove the inner clutch hub exposing the basket. there is a 27mm nut holding the basket on you will need loctite and special clutch tool to hold the basket when loosening and tightening this nut. remove the basket.

this exposes the internals of your motor, oil pump drive gear, starter gear, waterpump drive and the shifter drum of the trans. you will need snap ring pliers to remove a drive gear for the oil pump there is a washer on the gear take note the way it goes on and remove the gear. this exposes the detent arm. my photo shows the new one already installed. notice the wheel is solid no bearings.

if it is like mine (see pic in my hand) it will need replacing with the 07 p/n
2s2-18140-10-00. the pic on the bag is the older 06 style (just so you know what it would look like), notice the bearing in the wheel. that is what failed, i opted not to replace it with the original one so i dont have to do this again, and risk motor, gear damage with debris floating around in the motor.

take a magnet and fish around on the clutch side toward the oil sump pick up. then go to the other side of the motor remove the stator cover and note and mark the bolt postions there too. remove the cover and look for bearing pieces in the magnet pic ups and fly wheel. use the magnet in the bottom of the trans side of the case as well. wipe out the stator magnets with contact cleaner taking care to get as much steel debris from that side of the motor out. there will be tiny pieces everywhere be pacient and get as much as you can. put the cover back on.

heres where it gets tricky and you need a magnet and a spare pair of hands is nice. note how the arm is mounted, remove the bolt retaining it, remove all the pieces. note the bolt has a shoulder and needs to fit into the arm hole for proper stability and movement. also note the washer between the arm and the spring. with the spare hands holding the washer on the magnet, assemble the spring and arm and place the arm back in the case (it is like a puzzle and not easy) put the washer in place, flip the arm up to the washer and put the bolt with new loctite applied through the arm, washer than spring and finger tighten the bolt (you may need a screw driver for pressure on the arm to start the bolt) dont cross thread it, be pacient.

once it is started you will need pressure on the arm from the side and bottom to get the bolt shoulder through the arm hole. tighten to spec (was not super tight).

put the oil pump gear back in place with your snap ring retainer, and grab the clutch basket and reassemble in reverse. hardest part about putting it back together is getting the clutch basket and primary drive gear assy and the pump gears all lined up, rotating the wheel in gear helps. make sure the clutch basket is fully seated before tightening the nut (again by spec and loctite added).

you will know the basket is fully seated when the kick starter will engage the drive gear. if the kick start spins free it isnt seated. put in your inner clutch hub, plates and steels, clutch push arm and bearing (you do still have that bearing right?) outer cover and springs goes on. then the case cover goes on and new oil and filter. viola you saw your motor guts and didnt have to pay the dealer to do it for you.

while this is apart is a good time to look at your clutch componants and replace worn items and or upgrade to aftermarket hubs, pressure plate, and basket if you choose. hope this helps, sorry it is so long winded. obviously i am detail oriented. LOL! ski

  • grayracer513

Posted August 15, 2007 - 07:37 AM

#42

I believe this shifting issue is a significant issue on the 06 and enough ppl are experiencing this problem, including myself, that this tip would make a good sticky thread for this forum.:worthy:

Done, and added to Common Threads. :thumbsup:

  • cowboyona426

Posted August 18, 2007 - 08:44 AM

#43

Lots of good info here, I may replace mine just to be safe.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 19, 2007 - 06:59 AM

#44

ok, finally got to ride the bike after the above upgrade. all i can say is WOW! i wished i had known about this months ago when i was having issues. the tranny feels so much better, i find all gears and neutral alot faster and easier.

had practice at a local supermoto track yesterday and the bike was flawless except for one missed shift (my fault). it was a short track so i could not get up into 4-5th so that test still has to wait a few weeks. but so far it was a good upgrade. thanks again for all that helped. ski

  • twenty34

Posted August 21, 2007 - 09:08 PM

#45

heres where it gets tricky and you need a magnet and a spare pair of hands is nice. note how the arm is mounted, remove the bolt retaining it, remove all the pieces. note the bolt has a shoulder and needs to fit into the arm hole for proper stability and movement. also note the washer between the arm and the spring. with the spare hands holding the washer on the magnet, assemble the spring and arm and place the arm back in the case (it is like a puzzle and not easy) put the washer in place, flip the arm up to the washer and put the bolt with new loctite applied through the arm, washer than spring and finger tighten the bolt (you may need a screw driver for pressure on the arm to start the bolt) dont cross thread it, be pacient.


So I took it apart, up to where I took a good look at the arm and bearing assembly, but the bearings are still in place. After looking at it and reading your post about this part can get a bit tricky to re-install, I'm now faced with the dilema of whether to go ahead and remove it for replacement or just not deal with it any more. Everything seems in tact, all bearings are still in place and the mechanism seems to be working properly. :excuseme:

hmmm...:cry: :cry:

  • grayracer513

Posted August 22, 2007 - 06:18 AM

#46

The way that Yamaha intended for this arm to be replaced is to remove the "shift guide" (the retainer plate over the ratchet assembly), the ratchets assembly itself, and the "segment". (see 4-72 of the manual). That relieves all the tension on the arm, which can be easily exchanged for the new one. You then pull the arm back against the spring and push the segment back in place, reassembling the ratchet as shown on 4-74.

The arm is easy to do like this. The ratchet assembly can be tricky, though, but only because there are a number of small parts and a couple of springs involved, and the parts are small. Having done this already a few times, I would approach it this way.

If it was me, and the bike was apart as far as it is, I'd go ahead and replace it.

  • twenty34

Posted August 23, 2007 - 08:02 PM

#47

The way that Yamaha intended for this arm to be replaced is to remove the "shift guide" (the retainer plate over the ratchet assembly), the ratchets assembly itself, and the "segment". (see 4-72 of the manual). That relieves all the tension on the arm, which can be easily exchanged for the new one. You then pull the arm back against the spring and push the segment back in place, reassembling the ratchet as shown on 4-74.

The arm is easy to do like this. The ratchet assembly can be tricky, though, but only because there are a number of small parts and a couple of springs involved, and the parts are small. Having done this already a few times, I would approach it this way.

If it was me, and the bike was apart as far as it is, I'd go ahead and replace it.


Funny enough, I just picked up my manual and without looking, opened it up and it was page 4-72. What are the odds!!!:crazy:

Anywho, the fact that the bearing on this lever is still in tact now calls into question if this is really what causes the YZ to hit neutral/miss gears under load. What else could "potentially" cause this condition?:excuseme:

  • grayracer513

Posted August 23, 2007 - 08:58 PM

#48

Anywho, the fact that the bearing on this lever is still in tact now calls into question if this is really what causes the YZ to hit neutral/miss gears under load. What else could "potentially" cause this condition?:excuseme:

Well, in the cases where the roller fell apart, it was certainly a problem, but if not, then you have to go back to the more traditional causes. (this is something people have complained about with YZF's right along)

Many feel that the indexing roller is too aggressive in holding to the neutral notch in the segment, and their solution is to round over the points of the shift segment leading out of the neutral pocket. This has variable results, and often ends up making neutral more difficult to hit when you want it.

IMO, there isn't one certain thing that will cause it. Notchy shifting could be because of roughness in the shift cam grooves, tight shift rails, the index lever thing, it's hard to say.

Of course, operator error can contribute. I tend not to use the clutch when racing, and at high revs and heavy throttle openings, I will at times not get a shift when I expect to because I didn't roll off the gas far enough to release the hold the gears have on each other.

I don't have anything definitive for you on this one. It's something that used to happen on my '03, but I trained myself to shift it more assertively, and then I think whatever the roughness was wore away.

But, on the '06, it's worth noting that one of the first things I noticed about it was how slick it shifted compared to the '03, and the other YZF's I'd ridden. Others here noticed the same thing, but still others like yourself complained of the same notchy action. That makes me think that there must be something that would be accomplished by going over the entire mechanism an polishing the action up some.

  • ben_suhard

Posted August 25, 2007 - 09:58 PM

#49

Many thanks to everyone involved in this thread, especially Rhasted and Skidooboy, those pics are great(and Rickk for hosting the pics). It looks like I've got some work to do before it blows! :applause:

  • HGaither1

Posted September 16, 2007 - 08:58 AM

#50

So how many people have actually had the detent bearing problem? Believe it or not I have an 06 with only 4 hours on it and was just wondering. Also would the 08 part be any better than the 07?

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  • grayracer513

Posted September 16, 2007 - 10:03 AM

#51

Believe it or not I have an 06 with only 4 hours on it and was just wondering. Also would the 08 part be any better than the 07?

I believe it. I just bought one like that myself.

The '08 part is probably the same as the '07.

  • twenty34

Posted September 16, 2007 - 12:06 PM

#52

I believe it. I just bought one like that myself.

The '08 part is probably the same as the '07.


I think the shifting concerns on the YZ are just that, YZ specific and it's just something we all have to live with. If you want to check to see if your bearings are still in place, it's not that hard to do. Just remove the clutch cover, basket, plates and you'll be able to peek in and see if this bearing is still in tact. My guess is it is.

I was riding yesterday and had a few instances under load where it really popped into netral unexpectantly. Annoying, but I don't think there's much I can do about it.

Say GR, where do you ride?

  • grayracer513

Posted September 16, 2007 - 12:31 PM

#53

Say GR, where do you ride?

San Diego and Imperial county, mostly. Amago, Cahuilla Creek, McCain Valley, Superstition, Ocotillo Wells. Once in a while, we get up to Glen Helen.

  • twenty34

Posted September 16, 2007 - 12:45 PM

#54

San Diego and Imperial county, mostly. Amago, Cahuilla Creek, McCain Valley, Superstition, Ocotillo Wells. Once in a while, we get up to Glen Helen.


We ride Cahuilla almost every weekend. Maybe we'll get a chance to say hi sometime. Feel free to send a PM if you're planning on going to be up there and want to compare notes or ride. We have a range of ages from 33 to 60!

BTW: I road with the tall SDG seat this weekend. I didn't think it helped all that much with the turning, but it was better for transitioning from the seated to standing position.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 16, 2007 - 12:50 PM

#55

I'll do that. We like CC, but we've been avoiding it lately because of the heat.

  • Budlite

Posted September 17, 2007 - 11:17 AM

#56

For me , this post is a year too late for my 06. It would'nt shift right from day one and after about 10 hours it would jump out of gear. I replaced the shift forks, didn't fix it, then tried the 04 shift arm, still didn't fix it. I then replaced 4 gears and it help a bunch. Switching to Mobil 1 20-50 Four stroke oil seemed to make the problem go away completely. Too bad since we missed a whole year of racing it (rode the 250 two stroke instead) and now my son has retired from racing altogether so I no longer need the bike. It's collecting dust now.....now that it's finally ready to race.

  • Ga450owner

Posted September 17, 2007 - 12:42 PM

#57

Still no problems on my 06 with shifting....thanks to Amsoil:applause:

  • casperkc

Posted September 17, 2007 - 05:07 PM

#58

I had no issues UNTIL I switched to Amsoil. Last oil change I put in Amsoil and then my bearing came apart. I got both cages out and 8 of the 10 bearings tonight. The new one will be in Friday. I have allways had an issue going into neutral.

  • steve_97060

Posted September 17, 2007 - 05:32 PM

#59

I have used Castrol Actevo, and have never had any issues with shifting, I also never use the clutch while shifting...

  • matts06yzf

Posted September 18, 2007 - 05:22 AM

#60

Still no problems on my 06 with shifting....thanks to Amsoil:applause:


Me either never Love me some amsoil





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