Shifting problems on my 06 450f (Index Lever)


73 replies to this topic
  • dangwartz

Posted August 08, 2007 - 09:34 PM

#21

I had same problem. 06 yz450fv false neutrals between 1st and 2nd. Tried Amsoil, and problem went away.

How often does the stopper lever bearing need to be checked? Are the ball bearings small enough to plug an oil passage?

  • grayracer513

Posted August 09, 2007 - 07:19 AM

#22

Are the ball bearings small enough to plug an oil passage?

Possibly, but they're too big to get past the pick up screen, and they would certainly destroy the oil pump if they got into it.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 11, 2007 - 06:42 AM

#23

*****UPDATE*****


BIG thanks to RHALSTED, in fact that is EXACTLY what happend to my 06 i ordered both the 06 and the 07 arms and a new detent spring on tuesday am. unfortunately for me my delaer didnt order till weds.

i thought i would get the parts yesterday so i could race tomorrow. well after a call to the shop yesterday, i found out their order delay. so i figured i'd at least tear it down and diagnose the issue.

while i dry shifted the gears, my wife watched the arm and saw it was really loose, and low and behold after i walked to that side of the bike, the bearings were all gone just the inner race sitting on the outer race. problem found.

after fishing in the case on that side with a small strong magnet and flashlight, i cannot find any of the bearings. is there another area i can fish in to try and find these, or because the issue has been going on for a few oil changes could i believe the bearings came out while changing the oil??? longshot i know.

does anyone know how many bearings i am looking for? i owe rhalsted a beer for sure, thanks bro. now i just gotta wait for parts. man, i wanted to goto to the nasmoto supermoto race in sarnia ontario tomorrow bad too. ski

  • twenty34

Posted August 11, 2007 - 02:35 PM

#24

*****UPDATE*****


BIG thanks to RHALSTED, in fact that is EXACTLY what happend to my 06 i ordered both the 06 and the 07 arms and a new detent spring on tuesday am. unfortunately for me my delaer didnt order till weds.

i thought i would get the parts yesterday so i could race tomorrow. well after a call to the shop yesterday, i found out their order delay. so i figured i'd at least tear it down and diagnose the issue.

while i dry shifted the gears, my wife watched the arm and saw it was really loose, and low and behold after i walked to that side of the bike, the bearings were all gone just the inner race sitting on the outer race. problem found.

after fishing in the case on that side with a small strong magnet and flashlight, i cannot find any of the bearings. is there another area i can fish in to try and find these, or because the issue has been going on for a few oil changes could i believe the bearings came out while changing the oil??? longshot i know.

does anyone know how many bearings i am looking for? i owe rhalsted a beer for sure, thanks bro. now i just gotta wait for parts. man, i wanted to goto to the nasmoto supermoto race in sarnia ontario tomorrow bad too. ski


anyone have any pics of what this process looks like?

  • twenty34

Posted August 11, 2007 - 02:54 PM

#25

2S2-18140-00-00 STOPPER LEVER ASSY. Item 6 in the illustration below:

http://parts.yamaha-...ifx?d=91601,2,0


Thanks, I hadn't seen this until now. I can get to these parts by removing the right side cover, correct? So it's the ball bearings that seem to be falling out?

  • twenty34

Posted August 11, 2007 - 03:17 PM

#26

Thanks, I hadn't seen this until now. I can get to these parts by removing the right side cover, correct? So it's the ball bearings that seem to be falling out?


According to the website, there have been some replacements parts. Maybe they made some improvements?

3 POINT, NEUTRAL
4UN-18542-00-00 (replaces 278-18542-00-00)

12 FORK, SHIFT 3
5BE-18503-20-00 (replaces 5BE-18503-00-00)

  • skidooboy

Posted August 11, 2007 - 03:29 PM

#27

you should only need number 6 in the picture. take off clutch cover, remove entire clutch, you will need to remove one small gear held by snap ring to gain access to the arm, one bolt holds it in place. replace arm, and assemble in reverse. less than 6 dollar part kept me from racing this week. i'll take pics on monday/tues when i reassemble with new parts.

tip, wiggle the shifter arm while another pair of eyes watches the gear, shift area, they will see the loose brg race, and point it out to you. LOL

usually updated parts post numbers are 10-00 or 20-00. original numbers are usually 00-00. to replace #3 & #12 i am guessing you will need to split the cases. ski

  • twenty34

Posted August 11, 2007 - 04:01 PM

#28

you should only need number 6 in the picture. take off clutch cover, remove entire clutch, you will need to remove one small gear held by snap ring to gain access to the arm, one bolt holds it in place. replace arm, and assemble in reverse. less than 6 dollar part kept me from racing this week. i'll take pics on monday/tues when i reassemble with new parts.

tip, wiggle the shifter arm while another pair of eyes watches the gear, shift area, they will see the loose brg race, and point it out to you. LOL

usually updated parts post numbers are 10-00 or 20-00. original numbers are usually 00-00. to replace #3 & #12 i am guessing you will need to split the cases. ski


I would love to see your pics when you have them.

So here's a dumb question. What purpose does #6 serve and what's not working properly to cause the gear to shift into neutral under load? I was riding today and thought it was working well until it started acting up again.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 11, 2007 - 04:08 PM

#29

my best understanding ands putting it into laymens tearms. that is the shift arm, when you hit the lever up or down, it moves the shift forks into the gears to change gears. the bearings come out of the wheel portion. the inner race and outer race are still there and the detent spring will still "hold" the bike into gear. but the spring isnt strong enough to hold the smaller races without the bearing in place, so it doesnt shift as smooth and may pop out of gears under load.

the 07 pic in the yam computer at the dealer shows the bearing in the roller arm as a sealed unit. the 06 verison obviously is a open bearing. but, time will tell.
ski

  • grayracer513

Posted August 11, 2007 - 05:19 PM

#30

after fishing in the case on that side with a small strong magnet and flashlight, i cannot find any of the bearings. is there another area i can fish in to try and find these, or because the issue has been going on for a few oil changes could i believe the bearings came out while changing the oil??? longshot i know.

Pull the ignition cover and remove the flywheel. You will be able to see into the lowest point of the sump, right under the return oil pick up screen. This is where they would have eventually gone. They could also have gotten onto the flywheel magnets. I'll just guess that there's 8-10 of them.

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  • grayracer513

Posted August 11, 2007 - 05:32 PM

#31

Thanks, I hadn't seen this until now. I can get to these parts by removing the right side cover, correct? So it's the ball bearings that seem to be falling out?

You are correct on all counts. You will have to remove the clutch, however. The stuff is right behind it.

According to the website, there have been some replacements parts. Maybe they made some improvements?

3 POINT, NEUTRAL
4UN-18542-00-00 (replaces 278-18542-00-00)

12 FORK, SHIFT 3
5BE-18503-20-00 (replaces 5BE-18503-00-00)

The neutral point is the electrical contact for the neutral switch. No idea why it's different.

The shift fork is the one that does second gear (#1 works 1st and 3rd, #2 works 4th and 5th). There could be any number of reasons for the update. Since the shift cam, the 4th gear wheel (output shaft 4th, the gear that the shift fork moves), and the crankcase is the same on both years, I'll assume there was some improvement made to it, and that it's interchangeable. But, I don't really recall there being an issue with second on an '06, so again, I don't know why. The answer may be in service bulletins at the dealer.

BTW, the old PN for fork 3 dates to a '98 YZ400, and the shift cam is from a YZ250F, '01 or later.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 11, 2007 - 06:23 PM

#32

thanks gray, pulled the ignition cover, fished around with magnet, looked with light, picked prodded, didnt find any complete bearings but pulled a ton of pieces and parts of them. those bearings are super tiny. most were mashed and smashed from the flywheel/stator ect... some were in the bottom of the sump, some in the stator area.

hopefully the filters and magnets will get the rest over time. now i am going to go get some magnetic drain plugs (both drains), this may have been a good preventative if they would have been in there from the start. too bad the factories dont mandate these to prevent this stuff from getting in the motor bearings ect....

i just had to pull the cover, you can see/reach most of the sump galley with the flywheel in place. ski

  • grayracer513

Posted August 11, 2007 - 06:37 PM

#33

i just had to pull the cover, you can see/reach most of the sump galley with the flywheel in place. ski

I know you don't need to pull the flywheel to see into the sump, but the flywheel may have picked up a couple of bearings or pieces. What I forgot was that it's inside out, so you can actually inspect the magnets for captured debris without pulling it.

Since the balls are broken up, look over your primary, kick starter, balancer, oil and water pump drive gears for any damage caused by crushing your balls, so to speak.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 13, 2007 - 06:11 PM

#34

******update*****

i highly recomend all 06 yzf450 owners to buy the 07 part number
2S2-18140-10-00
it is a 12.00 (list) part. the 06 number is still the bearing style. the 07 number is a solid roller wheel. the bearings will fail over time and use. and if you dont have a magnetic drain plug, and or good luck, these parts will go through the trans and possibly motor. all you have to do is remove the clutch cover and complete clutch, small drive gear for oil pump held on by snap ring and unbolt the arm and replace it. if you have the right tools and temperment should take less than an hour start to finish including an oil change.

i didnt take any pics yet, but i have it altogether except for torquing the clutch hub down. i will take pics if someone will, host/post them. as i will be replacing the basket with a ebay hinson find.

i want to thank the thmupertalk family for helping me find my issue, without guys talking about these issues and fixes, it would be a time consuming expensive diagnosis process. ski

  • twenty34

Posted August 13, 2007 - 07:16 PM

#35

******update*****

i highly recomend all 06 yzf450 owners to buy the 07 part number
2S2-18140-10-00
it is a 12.00 (list) part. the 06 number is still the bearing style. the 07 number is a solid roller wheel. the bearings will fail over time and use. and if you dont have a magnetic drain plug, and or good luck, these parts will go through the trans and possibly motor. all you have to do is remove the clutch cover and complete clutch, small drive gear for oil pump held on by snap ring and unbolt the arm and replace it. if you have the right tools and temperment should take less than an hour start to finish including an oil change.

ski


Will the 07 work on an 06?:excuseme:

  • grayracer513

Posted August 13, 2007 - 08:03 PM

#36

No reason why it wouldn't. Every other part it comes in contact with is the same between the two.

  • skidooboy

Posted August 14, 2007 - 03:29 AM

#37

yes the 07 will work on the 06, i have already installed it. and as gray said above, all contact pieces except the arms are the same. order both if you like, will cost you about 20-25.00, you can see the difference but, you will be installing the 07 part when you see them. you wont want it to fail (possibly again). ski

  • skidooboy

Posted August 14, 2007 - 06:07 PM

#38

i have sent rickk the pics, when he posts them i will write a step by step article for the people interested. ski

  • twenty34

Posted August 14, 2007 - 08:28 PM

#39

i have sent rickk the pics, when he posts them i will write a step by step article for the people interested. ski


Folks, a little bit of collaboration going on here. Skidooboy was nice enough to send me his pics and I posted them online for him. They are great pics (and a sweet bike). We all owe him for showing us what to do here. Good stuff! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

http://www.pbase.com/rklein/yzclutch

  • twenty34

Posted August 14, 2007 - 08:35 PM

#40

i have sent rickk the pics, when he posts them i will write a step by step article for the people interested. ski


I believe this shifting issue is a significant issue on the 06 and enough ppl are experiencing this problem, including myself, that this tip would make a good sticky thread for this forum.:worthy:





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