RE: Engine Ice VS Liquid Ice


21 replies to this topic
  • MountainMax

Posted April 05, 2007 - 09:53 AM

#1

I was told Liquid Ice is a good coolant, others say engine ice, are these two different types of coolant? are either available here in Canada? i want to put some in my bike.....

I asked my local yamy dealers and they never heard of it and won't try to get it...

  • clark4131

Posted April 05, 2007 - 12:55 PM

#2

I don't know about Canadian availability, but I used to run Engine Ice in my '05. It worked okay, but I could still boil it with some slow hill climbs. I recently did a flush and replaced it with Maxima Coolanol. It has a higher boiling point and was a bit cheaper...SC

  • jsg6110

Posted April 06, 2007 - 10:15 AM

#3

Clark quick question do you think a higher boiling point is really a good thing I have been looking at different products for better cooling, but I have concerns about raising the boiling point because hot is hot and it would be the same stress on the engine. I am beginning to think aftermarket radiators may be the best option and do we really gain any benefit from additives, has anybody done any testing to see if they are a benefit.

  • TheCure

Posted April 06, 2007 - 12:35 PM

#4

Clark quick question do you think a higher boiling point is really a good thing I have been looking at different products for better cooling, but I have concerns about raising the boiling point because hot is hot and it would be the same stress on the engine. I am beginning to think aftermarket radiators may be the best option and do we really gain any benefit from additives, has anybody done any testing to see if they are a benefit.


I have in my two of my personal bikes. an 03 YZ450 and my 06 WR 450. I do not have quantitative numbers but I do have qualitatitive positive results with a home made mix.

search Coolant Recipes.

  • clark4131

Posted April 06, 2007 - 02:52 PM

#5

When coolant reaches its boiling point, it can no longer cool the bike by absorbing heat. So a higher boiling point means more heat absorption, i.e. better cooling properties :bonk:...SC

  • NavyNuke

Posted April 06, 2007 - 11:10 PM

#6

and addititves such as water wetter or the maxima version increase the heat transfer charicteristics, by lowering the surface tension.

  • MountainMax

Posted April 07, 2007 - 06:56 AM

#7

thanks for confusing me even more guys, lol.

  • ajetmech

Posted April 08, 2007 - 06:01 PM

#8

I live in the Desert 115 deg F in summer and I found out the faster I ride the more the air flows in to the radiator and no problems yet. Going in to my second summer with my 06 WR450. I did do a complet flush in Dec. I dont let it idle to long before riding it. On hot days I mark the catch tank with a grease pen and check to see how much over the line I am through out the day. I use Yamaha coolant.

  • TheCure

Posted April 09, 2007 - 06:34 AM

#9

When coolant reaches its boiling point, it can no longer cool the bike by absorbing heat. So a higher boiling point means more heat absorption, i.e. better cooling properties :thumbsup:...SC


So you're saying pure EG coolant which has a much higher boiling point than water has better heat transfer cooling than pure water?

If you are, that is absolutely not true.

The best heat transfer properties on the planet for engine cooling are pure water. Now, it doesn't have the highest boiling point, even in a pressurized system than coolant supplements, but it does transfer heat VERY effectively.

  • clark4131

Posted April 09, 2007 - 06:49 AM

#10

Well, if we're dealing in absolutes, then yes, pure, non-diluted coolant doesn't work as well as plain old water. But we're not dealing in absolutes, we're dealing in product that is ready to go out of the box. If you want to split hairs and talk about the extreme ends of the spectrum, we can poke holes in everything...After all, pure undiluted frozen orange juice concentrate has more vitamin C by volume in it than the stuff in the carton, but it tastes like crap :thumbsup:...SC

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  • TheCure

Posted April 09, 2007 - 07:35 AM

#11

Well, if we're dealing in absolutes, then yes, pure, non-diluted coolant doesn't work as well as plain old water. But we're not dealing in absolutes, we're dealing in product that is ready to go out of the box. If you want to split hairs and talk about the extreme ends of the spectrum, we can poke holes in everything...After all, pure undiluted frozen orange juice concentrate has more vitamin C by volume in it than the stuff in the carton, but it tastes like crap :thumbsup:...SC


Orange juice? Why a red herring? This isn't even debatable man.

We're dealing in science. It's all very testable and there's no mystery once you understand the terms.

http://www.redlineoi...itePaper/21.pdf

Heat capacity is the one were all interested in. Water is 1.00 cal/g-C', everyting else on the planet is less. If you want to reduce your chances of boiling over, you can.

Read the paper. I did and I've noticed a huge difference in my coolant systems performance by using this formula I read about in this thread....

http://www.thumperta...coolant recipes

  • clark4131

Posted April 09, 2007 - 08:06 AM

#12

I understand your point and I'm not discounting it. You originally used pure coolant as an example, while I was talking about off-the-shelf, ready-to-use product. I'm not interested in getting out my beakers and graduated cylinders to mix the optimum ratio of ingredients, and I dare say the majority of folks here aren't either. I want to be able to go into my local bike shop and grab the bottle of stuff that works the best, pour it in and ride. If product A boils less readily than product B, then product A will work better, that's not debatable. I used the orange juice analogy to illustrate my point regarding extremes, that's all. I'm not going to get into the classic "oil debate" regarding coolant. It will eventually deteriorate into the "this flavor of ice cream is the best" kind of discussion which is always wasted effort. I tried Engine Ice, boiled it over, so now I'm running the Maxima. Same conditions, less boil over. Seeing is believing :thumbsup:...SC

  • TheCure

Posted April 09, 2007 - 09:38 AM

#13

Theres nothing to debate. this is basic chemistry.:thumbsup: Your first statement about boil over, which i questioned was wrong.

Theres enough info in that linked thread to make some good choices.

  • AnimalDan

Posted April 09, 2007 - 11:09 AM

#14

Once a liquid reaches its boiling point it can not get any hotter (let's ignore super heating since it doesn't really come into affect here) and thus can only convert absorbed heat energy into the "physical" energy used in converting the liquid to gas. So Clark's point is that once a liquid starts to boil, it can only absorb more thermal energy by boiling itself off. While water has better thermal conductivity, it does no good once it boils. Both the linked article and the linked thread agree with this. To quote the linked article, 50% glycol boils at 265 degrees, RedLine and water at 250 at 15 psi. The article admits this is a problem but says "[COLOR="Red"]boil over using Red Line treated water is not a problem as long as the engine is circulating coolant through the head and the fan is circulating air. Sudden shutdown after very hard driving may cause boil over[/COLOR]". I don't have a fan on my bike and I regularly get stuck in the woods.

So to get back to Clark's point, for MX racers this may be great, but us woods, trails or desert riders may find the need to trade off higher operating temperatures for coolants that don't boil off.

  • AnimalDan

Posted April 09, 2007 - 11:39 AM

#15

ps
to quote moderator Greyracer513 from your linked thread "Boiling water can't cool anything".
I agree, the linked thread is a good one to read.

  • luissuperdog

Posted April 09, 2007 - 11:47 AM

#16

Well it is as easy as if you don't move your engine will over heat, and realy you could do any combination of coolants still will do the same. If you want to have no trouble with the coolant been spit out of your radiators just put an overflow tank and that will make a fix to the problem. The easy fix is move as fast as you can and the air will keep it cool.

  • waynus

Posted April 09, 2007 - 12:26 PM

#17

If product A boils less readily than product B, then product B will work better, that's not debatable. :worthy:...SC


That is highly debatable :ride: :thumbsup:

  • clark4131

Posted April 09, 2007 - 12:47 PM

#18

That is highly debatable :worthy: :thumbsup:


Ooops, I didn't proof-read that, I meant the other way around (I fixed it). Good catch! :ride:...SC

  • TuningFork426

Posted April 09, 2007 - 08:20 PM

#19

I use the cheapest coolant available, and ride the dunes, never boiled over. Like everyone says, best solution is to keep moving.

  • WR450RICKO

Posted April 10, 2007 - 06:51 PM

#20

Prior to doing all the mods, my bike boiled over regularly in the slow tight stuff. The stock lean jetting was my cause for overheating. I had my bike dynoed and have not had a boil over since. (1500 miles and counting) Still using the stock coolant that came with the bike. Understanding the air/fuel mixture using the sticky will greatly decrease your stress on the trail. IMAO




 
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