06 suspension help


22 replies to this topic
  • bboyce

Posted March 14, 2007 - 04:06 PM

#1

I posted this exact thing in the suspension section, and I haven't really got a bit of help other than some dummies telling me to stop acting like the real #7 and crap like that.
----------------------------------------------
Ok guys, I bought a new 06 YZ450 in november, and have only logged on agout 15 hours on my bike. I ride indoor tracks because we get nice cold winters in MI.
Anyways, I am light, about 140 without gear, and I have the stock springs and everything in the bike, the suspension hasn't been touched, other than the clickers. So heres my problem...The suspension feels great, but as if it has no bottoming resistance. I have constantly been changing the clicker settings to try to stop harsh bottoming, and I still bottom alot over not so big of jumps, but I feel I am on my best settings so far.
So most say, well keep increasing the compression...well, heres my other problem. If and when I increase the compression just one click on the forks, I get severe arm pump, and they feel really harsh. Then on the shock, almost the same thing, but it just rides to high in the back. I have increased the High speed a little bit to see if that will help, and I only get harshness.
As or right now, I am sitting on what I think is the best settings, but I still get some harsh bottoming. What do I need to do? Is it springs? Valving? Or do you think its just time for a rebuild?

Well thanks for reading through all that guys.
-Bboyce

  • kents_504

Posted March 14, 2007 - 04:25 PM

#2

Dude I'm 180 without gear and I had to swap to lighter springs on both ends. The stock springs are set for someone around 190, (race-tech spring calculator isnt right.) I sent my stuff to Fat MAx racing and had them swap springs and revalve and my suspension is amazing!

  • bboyce

Posted March 14, 2007 - 04:28 PM

#3

Dude I'm 180 without gear and I had to swap to lighter springs on both ends. The stock springs are set for someone around 190, (race-tech spring calculator isnt right.) I sent my stuff to Fat MAx racing and had them swap springs and revalve and my suspension is amazing!


Fat Max..hey, I know them, a few friends are sponsered by them. I bet If I talk to them I could get their discount...Ill look into that, my problem is that, I think my springs are to heavy, and the valving is to soft for me.

  • red7

Posted March 19, 2007 - 10:36 PM

#4

Dude I'm 180 without gear and I had to swap to lighter springs on both ends. The stock springs are set for someone around 190, (race-tech spring calculator isnt right.) I sent my stuff to Fat MAx racing and had them swap springs and revalve and my suspension is amazing!


Are you serious? I weigh 180 as well and am likely going the other way as this suspension is just too soft for SX. I'm bummed because one of the things that sold me on YZ450 was the highly regarded suspension but my experience has been exactly the same as bboyce and my bike is only 2 months old.

  • kents_504

Posted March 20, 2007 - 04:49 AM

#5

Are you serious? I weigh 180 as well and am likely going the other way as this suspension is just too soft for SX. I'm bummed because one of the things that sold me on YZ450 was the highly regarded suspension but my experience has been exactly the same as bboyce and my bike is only 2 months old.


Yea thats what I thought at first too because I would bottom my suspension out over the real big jumps but it would beat the hell out of me over braking bumps and such. Turned out my bushings were shot and I was to light for the spring rate. I thought the exact opposite too that I was spont on for the stock spring rate but Fat Max told me otherwise and swaped the other fork springs, changed the iner chamber springs and revalved both ends for me. Now my suspension preforms great and soaks up all the big and small stuff and my arms dont pump up after 4 laps either!!!! :applause:

Most people think the spring rates are spot on because of what some calculator tells them not because they have had real world experience with other rates.

  • live4speed

Posted March 20, 2007 - 06:04 AM

#6

i was always under the impression that the stockers are set up for 145-165...thats what i was told anyway. i weight about 145 without gear and i dont even come close to bottoming! in fact, i need to take some compression out of the fork because its still kinda harsh on a flat landing.

  • moochie

Posted March 20, 2007 - 08:30 AM

#7

I posted this exact thing in the suspension section, and I haven't really got a bit of help other than some dummies telling me to stop acting like the real #7 and crap like that.
----------------------------------------------
Ok guys, I bought a new 06 YZ450 in november, and have only logged on agout 15 hours on my bike. I ride indoor tracks because we get nice cold winters in MI.
Anyways, I am light, about 140 without gear, and I have the stock springs and everything in the bike, the suspension hasn't been touched, other than the clickers. So heres my problem...The suspension feels great, but as if it has no bottoming resistance. I have constantly been changing the clicker settings to try to stop harsh bottoming, and I still bottom alot over not so big of jumps, but I feel I am on my best settings so far.
So most say, well keep increasing the compression...well, heres my other problem. If and when I increase the compression just one click on the forks, I get severe arm pump, and they feel really harsh. Then on the shock, almost the same thing, but it just rides to high in the back. I have increased the High speed a little bit to see if that will help, and I only get harshness.
As or right now, I am sitting on what I think is the best settings, but I still get some harsh bottoming. What do I need to do? Is it springs? Valving? Or do you think its just time for a rebuild?

Well thanks for reading through all that guys.
-Bboyce



Bboyce, actually there were posts on your suspension forum thread that indicated you need to take your forks apart to make sure you don't have any broken parts and to also confirm you have fresh oil at the right level...have you done that yet?

It's also easy to go to racetech.com or mx-tech.com and enter your bike, type of riding and weight into the spring rate calculators in order to come up with the right spring rates. It's clear from using these spring rate calculators that the stock springs are good for someone weighing as much as 185 lbs. Until you take your forks apart and check them out, posting the same question in multiple forums isn't going to do you any good.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 20, 2007 - 09:25 AM

#8

It's also easy to go to racetech.com or mx-tech.com and enter your bike, type of riding and weight into the spring rate calculators in order to come up with the right spring rates. It's clear from using these spring rate calculators that the stock springs are good for someone weighing as much as 185 lbs. Until you take your forks apart and check them out, posting the same question in multiple forums isn't going to do you any good.

Two things to note on the spring calculators is that one requires the input of your weight with gear, and the other, without.

Also, the type of riding selected has a bearing. Recommended rates go up as you look at supercross or arena cross.

  • red7

Posted March 20, 2007 - 12:18 PM

#9

Yea thats what I thought at first too because I would bottom my suspension out over the real big jumps but it would beat the hell out of me over braking bumps and such. Turned out my bushings were shot and I was to light for the spring rate. I thought the exact opposite too that I was spont on for the stock spring rate but Fat Max told me otherwise and swaped the other fork springs, changed the iner chamber springs and revalved both ends for me. Now my suspension preforms great and soaks up all the big and small stuff and my arms dont pump up after 4 laps either!!!! :applause:

Most people think the spring rates are spot on because of what some calculator tells them not because they have had real world experience with other rates.


Yep, that sounds like my exact scenario, bottoming on the big stuff and getting beat up on the smaller stuff. Even the rear is starting to get soft on me as I bottomed both front and rear yesterday for the first time (my fault as I over jumped a triple and landed low on the transition). I found out mx-tech is in Arizona where I'll be in 2 weeks so no more messing around, my whole suspension is getting reworked when I go back either by them or someone else. Anyone familiar with their work?

  • red7

Posted March 20, 2007 - 12:44 PM

#10

In looking for info on suspension shops I came across an article in the August '06 Dirt Bike mag where they customize an '06 YZ450 and here is a quote regarding the stock suspension,"The suspension on the stock YZ450 got rave reviews, mainly from small, or slower riders. All of the Chargers need it stiffer and more willing to swallow a nasty punch without hammering the pilot into a death grip of pumped up forearms............."

Now I'm no charger by any means as I have so much to learn about starts, turns, etc but I'm not affraid to launch off of about anything so I understand what they are talking about in this arcticle. I think on mellow MX tracks it would probably be fine but on SX (and we're not talking AMA here) tracks with the big, high triples and small landings stock just won't cut it.

Anyway, I found it interesting that I found this article today and thought I'd share the quote.

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  • yamahaboy99

Posted March 20, 2007 - 02:43 PM

#11

I am a charger, I weigh 165 with gear. And I could jump off a 30 story building and not bottom the bike out. Breaking bumps and acceleration bumps absolutly killed my arms. I could go for about 4-5 laps tops at race pace and just fall over from arm pump. I could ride 2 hours in a row on my 250f at race pace. So I coughed up a few nuts and sent my suspension to enzo for a rework. Hopfully when the suspension gets back ill be able to ride the bike finally haha.

  • Wiz636

Posted March 20, 2007 - 03:07 PM

#12

You can mess with the clickers until the cows come home, but at 140 lbs it will never, ever work right until you get the correct springs in there.

When your race sag is set correctly on the rear what is your static sag?

  • bryant40

Posted March 20, 2007 - 03:27 PM

#13

You can mess with the clickers until the cows come home, but at 140 lbs it will never, ever work right until you get the correct springs in there.

When your race sag is set correctly on the rear what is your static sag?


Agreed, you need to spend a few bucks on at least basic suspension work. It'll make a world of differance when you get it sprung right for your weight and riding style/type.
Personaly, I dont mind the stock springs. I could get better if I payed for it, but its not bad enough right now to make me want to spend the money for aftermarket work. I ride strickly MX and run the clickers close to stock. The 06 yamahas are cadillacs through chop and breaking bumps, I didn't know so many people disliked it. I love this bike, everything about it works for me. :applause:

  • bboyce

Posted March 20, 2007 - 04:48 PM

#14

Its at 33mm's static sag, and as far as I know, that is acceptable.

As far as I can still tell, I have no need for softer springs...:applause:

  • StPeters21

Posted March 20, 2007 - 04:58 PM

#15

I have the same problem....I had Pro-Action re-valve my suspension and re-spring it. It has helped tremendously. I still can't get it dialed in like the way my '04 was. The same tuner set-up both machines????? I blame it on the aluminum frame...

  • bryant40

Posted March 20, 2007 - 06:58 PM

#16

Its at 33mm's static sag, and as far as I know, that is acceptable.

As far as I can still tell, I have no need for softer springs...:applause:


I'm honestly not sure what the static sag /preload should be, but 33mm seems a little much. I thought they usually landed around 25mm? Not positive though.

  • moochie

Posted March 20, 2007 - 07:11 PM

#17

Its at 33mm's static sag, and as far as I know, that is acceptable.

As far as I can still tell, I have no need for softer springs...:applause:


I have stock springs on my 06 450 and I weigh 160... when my race sag is set at 95mm, the static sag is at 38mm. Since I have too much static sag when the preload is adjusted correctly, it's hard to understand how your coming up with those sag measurements when you weigh 140?

Regarding your forks bottoming...have you taken things apart yet and put new oil in?

I just ordered lighter springs for mine this week.

  • yzfmerf

Posted March 21, 2007 - 07:17 AM

#18

I finally got around to checking the sag last night, i dont think i had done it since the first night i had the bike and that night i did it by myself so i dont know how accuarate it was. In any case the static sag was at 25 mm but the race sag was only at 75-80? No keep in mind i was not in full gear but i dont think that that another 10 pounds is going to make a differecne of 25%. Makes me wonder if i have a differetn spring rate somehow since i weigh 210!

  • red7

Posted March 21, 2007 - 10:15 PM

#19

Hey bboyce, lastnight I used a syringe and added 5ml of maxima oil to each fork through that air vent on the top of them. This is just a bandaid fix until I get back to the States and can my whole suspension redone. I put in about 30 laps today and didn't bottom once although I felt really good and was pretty dialed on my landings. It made a huge difference because I would have bottomed hard at least a dozen times even with my clickers almost all the way in. Hopefully it wasn't just a fluke thing and it will hold up until after my race in 10 days after which I'm heading to AZ to visit the fam and get the suspension work done. Temporarily, it may be worth a shot for you as there really weren't any negative side effects that i noticed.

  • bboyce

Posted March 22, 2007 - 11:44 AM

#20

I got the forks off my bike, and Im going to try to change the oil in them tonight. My dealer sells bel-ray products, so should I get 7.5 wt?





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