Honda CRF250 vs. KTM 250SXF for offroad

[Thumper33]

Honda CRF250R vs. KTM 250SXF for offroad

I'm going to buy a new bike for offroad tight woods only. I'm trying to find a really light package with good "woods" power.

I'm thinking that I'll buy one of these MX bikes and put some skids on it, some new bars, maybe gear it down a little, and have a really light woods bike.

It looks like the honda has the weight advantage by 4 lbs according to one review. And the showa forks are supposed to be better. Are the honda 250F's past the valve problem they had?

However, the KTM seems to have a little more power which might make up for the little extra weight. The other things KTM has going for it is that KTM really focuses on offroad machines and they have a ton of offroad accessories and support.

I expect to ride a season with the bike made a little more bulletproof with skids and protection, and then next year to put on a little more power with a bigger bore kit. I know HT Racing has a good kit for the KTM, and I assume someone has something simillar for the Honda.

Which bike do you think will be a better ultimate woods weapon for enduro racing only?

[eplanajr]

why didnt you put the 250x on the list?

[Thumper33]

because its 21 lbs heavier than the R version and I want to get a nice light bike.

The whole idea is to make an ultra light 4 stroke. I don't want electric start.

[TheWeez]

Don't be fooled by the KTM having "more power". It's simply not true. My riding buddy went out and bought an '06 250SXF and while it's a very nice bike, it doesn't handle nearly as well as my CRF and it doesn't have any more power. Again, it is a very nice bike and comes loaded with many features that most people pay for after they buy their bikes.

If you really want light and flickable, you should consider a 250 2stroke. Just about every GNCC rider rides one. There must be a reason. The 2stroke will cost you a lot less to maintain and the power difference between a 250 2stroke and a 250f is amazing. It takes very little work to get any of the 250 2st MX bikes to be an awesome woods weapon. Don't fall for the thumper hype. While they are great bikes (I ride one), the 2strokes in my opinion are the best bang for the buck. If you've never ridden one, you will be blown away by the power and weight.

[cms_austx]

For a 250 thumper, I'd go w/ the 250 XCF or XCFW. I'd tested the XCFW in the woods, and it's incredible. I don't think the extra weight is that noticeable, but you will appreciate the better gearing, offroad-specific suspension valving, and the numerous off-road specific details that makes it a better woods weapon off the showroom floor.

The 250 XC is also a fantastic bike if you'll consider a 2 stroke.

[gmoss357]

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459179

just another angle for your review. I am sure both bikes will serve you well, but the 07 KTM is a FAR cry from anything that has come before it. Some of what has been stated before concerning KTM is more heresy than anything else.

With KTM, you get, Brembo brakes with Galfer rotors, Brembo hydraulic clutch, machined adjustable clamps with adjustable bar mounts, machined hubs on Excel wheels, an actual wet weight of 216 lbs, a spark plug that can be changed without disassembly, simplicity in engineering, and 6 spds, just to name a few.

Honda has proven themselves as a great bike, so you really can't go wrong unless you are leary of their 'history'.

In the end, it is YOUR bike, so it really boils down to which one fits you best. I am just trying to throw out some facts for you to research further.

[Thumper33]

I'm happy to go to a 2 stroke if I have to, and everyone keeps reminding me that the pros all use 2 strokes. However, perhaps I just need someone to explain something to me.

Let's just compare the 250SXF to the 250XC. The 250 2 stroke actually comes in another 10 lbs heavier. I could go to the 250SX which is lighter than the 250SXF, but isn't the SX going to have a two stroke hit like a race bike and not nearly as much low end?

I'm mainly afraid that with a 2 stroke I'll end up with a bike that's got more power than I want again. What I found with my last trip into the tight stuff was that I'm simply not a good enough rider to have a lot of power and it just wears me out really fast. And if I go with a smaller one, like the 200, then it'll have more of a powerband, and not enough low end which will make it harder again to ride. Otherwise, I don't mind at all going to a 2 stroke.

Is the 250SX tuned the same as the 250XC? I still just don't get what makes the XC 18 lbs heavier. They're both kick start, same engine. no lights... why's it heavier except maybe a skid plate... but 18 lbs?

[gmoss357]

I'm happy to go to a 2 stroke if I have to, and everyone keeps reminding me that the pros all use 2 strokes. However, perhaps I just need someone to explain something to me.

Let's just compare the 250SXF to the 250XC. The 250 2 stroke actually comes in another 10 lbs heavier. I could go to the 250SX which is lighter than the 250SXF, but isn't the SX going to have a two stroke hit like a race bike and not nearly as much low end?

I'm mainly afraid that with a 2 stroke I'll end up with a bike that's got more power than I want again. What I found with my last trip into the tight stuff was that I'm simply not a good enough rider to have a lot of power and it just wears me out really fast. And if I go with a smaller one, like the 200, then it'll have more of a powerband, and not enough low end which will make it harder again to ride. Otherwise, I don't mind at all going to a 2 stroke.

Is the 250SX tuned the same as the 250XC? I still just don't get what makes the XC 18 lbs heavier. They're both kick start, same engine. no lights... why's it heavier except maybe a skid plate... but 18 lbs?

I came off an 06 300W, easy bike to ride and one that will bite just as easily. A good friend has an 06 250XC that I have spent time on. I like the 250XC but it requires more throttle control on hillclimbs. The 4 stroke just gets better traction than the 2 stroke.

What year models are you looking at?

[brokencrf250]

Well,most wood areas are ohv trails and such--so you may want to think about an off-road model, such as a crf250x or ktm 250xcf

[Thumper33]

Well,most wood areas are ohv trails and such--so you may want to think about an off-road model, such as a crf250x or ktm 250xcf

I understand that there are offroad specific models, but they're heavier with the lighting and electric start and such. I don't need electric start or lights, and just want to get a bike as light as possible. This is the whole point of this tread is to get people to talk about their experiences with converting a MX bike to an offroad bike. Maybe I should have titled it differently. I'm going to talk to my dealer today about things, and they sell honda, yamaha, and KTM. The honda is the lighter bike, but the KTM has some goodies on it that I like. I'm hoping to just sit on them both and see which one feels like it wants to come home with me and get converted to an offroad machine.

Has anyone pulled the started off a 250xcf? I would imagine it would save at least 5 lbs, maybe 10.

[gmoss357]

I understand that there are offroad specific models, but they're heavier with the lighting and electric start and such. I don't need electric start or lights, and just want to get a bike as light as possible. This is the whole point of this tread is to get people to talk about their experiences with converting a MX bike to an offroad bike. Maybe I should have titled it differently. I'm going to talk to my dealer today about things, and they sell honda, yamaha, and KTM. The honda is the lighter bike, but the KTM has some goodies on it that I like. I'm hoping to just sit on them both and see which one feels like it wants to come home with me and get converted to an offroad machine.

Has anyone pulled the started off a 250xcf? I would imagine it would save at least 5 lbs, maybe 10.

Wet, the Honda and KTM are virtually the same weight. If you are going to take the starter off the XCF, wouldn't you be better to just get the NEW SXF?

did you read my off road conversion review of my SXF? This bike works great off road.

[Thumper33]

I actually did read your entire post on that. I'm not really thinking that hard about anything other than the 250SXF right now. I think it will be an AWESOME bike for offroad based upon what you had to say about it. I realize that it'll need some suspension work, new bars, and some skid plates, but those are easy.

[Thumper33]

Are all the appropriate radiator, sharkfin, skid, ect. all available for the SXF? That's the one thing I haven't reasearched yet.

[Beyond The Pale]

One thing to consider is the transmission. Unlike other parts this is difficult or impossible to change. You don't want a MX transmission in the woods. Generaly MX gearing is a high first gear and the rest of the gears are close together. Off road gearing usually has a lower first gear. This can really make a difference in the nasty stuff.

If you want the ultimate in lightness, get a trials bike. They weigh in at about 150.

[GOorangeNEVERgoBACK]

I understand that there are offroad specific models, but they're heavier with the lighting and electric start and such. I don't need electric start or lights, and just want to get a bike as light as possible. This is the whole point of this tread is to get people to talk about their experiences with converting a MX bike to an offroad bike. Maybe I should have titled it differently. I'm going to talk to my dealer today about things, and they sell honda, yamaha, and KTM. The honda is the lighter bike, but the KTM has some goodies on it that I like. I'm hoping to just sit on them both and see which one feels like it wants to come home with me and get converted to an offroad machine.

Has anyone pulled the started off a 250xcf? I would imagine it would save at least 5 lbs, maybe 10.

Don't be fooled. KTM weighs there bikes everything on them including fluids except for gas. Honda weighs them with no fluids at all and it is off. KTM is actually the same as the Honda if not lighter! I'm doing the same thing as "gmoss". I'll let you know how it works out!

[Thumper33]

One thing to consider is the transmission. Unlike other parts this is difficult or impossible to change. You don't want a MX transmission in the woods. Generaly MX gearing is a high first gear and the rest of the gears are close together. Off road gearing usually has a lower first gear. This can really make a difference in the nasty stuff.

If you want the ultimate in lightness, get a trials bike. They weigh in at about 150.

Ya, I agree, this is the one thing that scares me is that I'm a C rider so I won't be pounding the thing to it's limit, and need some low gearing. If I gear it down to get a good first for me, then weill I have gears too close togther for everything else? Anyone have gear ratios to post to compare the SXF and the XCF?

[wr250fthrasher]

how about a 144 smoker:excuseme:

or a nice 125

lighter than any 250. same power. cheaper to maintain just cheaper in general...

and its a 2 stroke:p

thats my .02

[Thumper33]

how about a 144 smoker:excuseme:

or a nice 125

lighter than any 250. same power. cheaper to maintain just cheaper in general...

and its a 2 stroke:p

thats my .02

Ya, because a 125 has a TON of low end for the slow sections:p

[motoxerc0]

i love my crf250 but i dont ride any trails or anything so i couldnt help u out there. its an amazing track bike. light, great handeling, great motor and suspension i love it. as 4 a woods bike....i think a 2 stroke 250 would be a great idea. they r light n have tons of power n r cheap 2 maintain. u cant go wrong with that. as far as race bike power...2 make it more trail friendly...throw some skids, hand guards, n anything else u want, gear it alittle lower 4 more low grunty power n try a heavier fly wheel. that will tame the power n wont take anyway any horsepower.

[MoToFrEaK14]

this year ktm is lightest then the rest of the class....ready to ride, no gas its 214, the rest are 216 and up...the KTM's nadling and suspension/chasis package this year are better than hondas, and Hondas bog is worse this year due to a big carb...the only prob with the KTM's is a little fork stiffness which will be fixed with a revalve, which you should do to any bike...dont beleive me that KTM's susp. is better than Honda's? RESEARCH....everyone thinks KTM suspension sucks and whatever....they dont this year, good enough to be liked by more people than Honda....