anyone else dissapointed with 07 reliability?


92 replies to this topic
  • warrior86

Posted January 25, 2007 - 07:00 AM

#61

stock, i agree with you completely. I would rather replace my chain and sprocket every 15 hours than deal with the top end issues that all the other guys are dealing with. But again, its kinda of ironic that yamaha figured out the missing link to these impossible valvetrains but still throws POS parts on it in other areas. Whatever, i still love my fourfiddy!:ride:

  • dwnlowx

Posted January 25, 2007 - 10:53 AM

#62

I Have An 04 And I Got It Basiclly New It Had Stock Everything And The Chain Sucked The Tires Sucked And The The Seals Leaked

  • stock510

Posted January 28, 2007 - 03:10 AM

#63

stock, i agree with you completely. I would rather replace my chain and sprocket every 15 hours than deal with the top end issues that all the other guys are dealing with. But again, its kinda of ironic that yamaha figured out the missing link to these impossible valvetrains but still throws POS parts on it in other areas. Whatever, i still love my fourfiddy!:ride:


Hey mate,

Just buy yourself a DID x-ring chain and some good quality sprockets........15 hours..........no chance, a good quality chain and sprockets and they will last a LONG time.

I think the Japanese manufacturers must part own DID, Renthal, and all the big name quality parts companys. Good scam they have going, buy a new bike and then buy expensive new parts......at least they make your bike look more trick.:ride:

  • MichiganMXer

Posted January 28, 2007 - 07:22 PM

#64

Everyone,

I'm suprised these bikes even cost $7000 grand anymore. The prices of raw materials over that past few years have skyrocketed.

Aluminum has more than doubled. Titanium has gone staight up.

Even in the light of these realities, the manufacturers have still pursued building bikes with these materials, dumping an assload into R&D and improve quality in the mean time.

I don't think their profit margin is nearly what it was in the "golden years" of good stock chains. You're all getting a bigger bang for your buck.

A shitty stock chain. So what.

P.S.

A "lighter all aluminum rim" = less aluminum= less strength. Go figure.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 28, 2007 - 08:26 PM

#65

A "lighter all aluminum rim" = less aluminum= less strength. Go figure.

Maybe, maybe not. I recall when an aluminum rim was an Akront, which had to have a raised rim shoulder on it so that it would be strong enough to be usable. This let them collect mud. Advances in metallurgy then allowed the introduction of the first shoulderless DID rims. Current top grade Excel rims are strong than steel rims were 30 years ago. Progress continues. You may be right, but the fact that something is lighter doesn't necessarily mean it's weaker.

  • Mike McCutcheon

Posted January 29, 2007 - 02:39 PM

#66

I bought a new Regina O-ring chain for my 07 450 right away too. All the Jap bikes come with good sprockets but a cheap chain. My 05RMZ made it a whole season on the stock sprockets with an O-ring chain. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.... As for the seals, try the thin plastic card trick up the seal and maybe remove some dirt that got in? I've done it and stopped the leaking. It doesn't take much to cause a seal to weep. My GYTR skidplate fit alot better when I started the back bolt first, then the two front bolts, but I was aggravated by the time I figured it out. You picked a great bike.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 29, 2007 - 03:45 PM

#67

You might also want to look at page 3-34 of your manual, especially the note in step two.

  • ZéPovinho

Posted January 29, 2007 - 04:27 PM

#68

Reliability is a very complicated matter.
these bykes are race built, everything is manufactured so that every tent of a second can be shaved off. non o-ring chains, aluminium rear sprockets are just a slight way to make something like that 1/8 Hp@ plus to the rear wheel. have you ever lifted a follded o-ring chain? try that, compare it to a non o-ring one(both in good condiction, of course) and you will see how much drag those tinny litlle rubers do on your drive train. add that to a ever lasting, 4 times heavier steel sprocket that not only being heavier makes the bike slower on acelleration, but also harder to turn. this by it self does´nt makes too much diference to the average joe, but add that to rims, hubs, even tires, floating brake rotors, all these moving(rotating) parts being lighter make the bike quicker, and manuverable due to less gyroscopic forces( ever holded a turning wheel verticaly by it´s axle?).
think about this, what kind of stuff do the racers use for how long?
the lighest stuff for not too long
racing speaking, if a MX day takes 4 hours riding(at most), your set took over 3 races. not bad. a normal chain can cost less than half the price of an average o-ring one. if you want to go racing. some racers spend a chain pher race. on that ratio it does´nt has to be a very good or an expensive one, just as long as it is nimble(?) and lasts the race, do some training, and put a new one for the next race. same goes to the sprockets.

I hope you guis understand my point of view

  • grayracer513

Posted January 29, 2007 - 05:13 PM

#69

Reliability is a very complicated matter.

Once again, this is not, other than the question of the seals, really an issue of the reliability of the bike itself at all. It's only a question of the quality of one single component selected from an outside vendor. It isn't even a question of O-ring vs. non-sealed chains, either as a high quality non-sealed chain will last over a year, if cared for well enough. But if you want that kind of quality, you have to pay for it, and it's much more than half the cost of a good sealed chain, too.

And as for the "drag" caused by an O-ring chain, it's bunk. At any one moment, there are only 8 O-rings being rotated, and only the ones at the front sprocket are moving as much as 10-15 degrees. When someone produces a dyno chart demonstrating any significant loss using a high quality sealed chain vs. a non-sealed in a scientifically conducted test session, I'll acknowledge it. But not until then. That's beside the point, anyway.

MX bikes are not road racers,where power and minimal parasitic losses are of paramount importance. They need to have certain sacrifices made to be robust and durable enough to complete races reliably. It is not at all unfair to expect a race bike sold as a consumer product to suffer an occasional failure, but neither is it unreasonable to expect a level of durability from it that is on a par with its peers, nor to expect that all of the components would perform at least half as well as any other. And even on a race bike, the idea of throwing away $150 worth of hardware every race or two is not acceptable to a privateer anymore.

What people are objecting to here is that after having rendered what amounts to a mechanical masterpiece in the new YZ450, Yamaha somehow didn't feel like spending another $25 on a really good rear chain. It's OK with me, because I'm used to it, as I said, and the bike is so good otherwise. But you should be able to understand why people who aren't aware of it object.

  • warrior86

Posted January 29, 2007 - 07:11 PM

#70

MX bikes are not road racers,where power and minimal parasitic losses are of paramount importance. They need to have certain sacrifices made to be robust and durable enough to complete races reliably. It is not at all unfair to expect a race bike sold as a consumer product to suffer an occasional failure, but neither is it unreasonable to expect a level of durability from it that is on a par with its peers, nor to expect that all of the components would perform at least half as well as any other. And even on a race bike, the idea of throwing away $150 worth of hardware every race or two is not acceptable to a privateer anymore.

What people are objecting to here is that after having rendered what amounts to a mechanical masterpiece in the new YZ450, Yamaha somehow didn't feel like spending another $25 on a really good rear chain. It's OK with me, because I'm used to it, as I said, and the bike is so good otherwise. But you should be able to understand why people who aren't aware of it object.


Exactly the point i am trying to make:prof: :ride:

P.S. Bought an x ring chain and ironman sprockets like i had on my 250f...good to go. I never had a problem with resolving the chain sprocket issue, my problem/complaint is that its an issue in the first place.

But whatever, there are some other valid points too regarding the price of metal and the drag of an o ring chain. I also liked the info about the advancements in metallurgy (sp?)regarding the rims. Makes ya wonder...

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  • MichiganMXer

Posted January 29, 2007 - 07:22 PM

#71

Maybe, maybe not. I recall when an aluminum rim was an Akront, which had to have a raised rim shoulder on it so that it would be strong enough to be usable. This let them collect mud. Advances in metallurgy then allowed the introduction of the first shoulderless DID rims. Current top grade Excel rims are strong than steel rims were 30 years ago. Progress continues. You may be right, but the fact that something is lighter doesn't necessarily mean it's weaker.


I definitely agree with you. That is true.

There are new high strength steels now that apply a little Titanium in the Iron-to-Steel process that truely make steel much more stronger with less weight. Along with reducing chemical impurities.

I work at a steel mill.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 29, 2007 - 08:34 PM

#72

I also liked the info about the advancements in metallurgy (sp?)regarding the rims. Makes ya wonder...

The YZF's along with a number of other modern engines would have actually been impossible to build as little as 25-30 years ago.

  • Dirt Vader

Posted February 02, 2007 - 12:56 AM

#73

I'm not looking forward to spending seven grand for my 07'. the sheer complexity in these motors,and the rpm's they achieve not to mention the manufacturing involved.I'll suffer cheap seals and lame tires , if they are parts with short life spans i won't sweat it, I got my goody box(parts) ready
come on summer! :ride:

  • WB450

Posted February 02, 2007 - 08:11 AM

#74

I just ordered a DID 520 X-RING Chain for my 450. I have one short ride on it, should I change the sprockets now as well? What about the stock sizes, should I stay with them?

  • sean3239

Posted February 02, 2007 - 08:56 AM

#75

Has anyone tried the forkskins or dirtskins?


Yes, I had the seal savers on my 06 (bought in Feb). When I took them off in December I noticed the left seal was leaking. I ran the film negative around the seal and that fixed it for that day (love that trick :ride: ). Since then, I have had to run the negative around the seal for an occasional leak. So, I don't know if the seal saver was working or just absorbing the leak :ride: On my 03, I did not have the seal savers and they did not start to leak until after 2 years, who knows :ride:

As far as reliability, 06 has been great. 03 had third gear lose two teeth after about two years. The mechanic said he had never seen that on all the Yamis (bulletproof is the term he used) and thought it might be a one in a million metal defect. But he did have something to say about another brands valves..:applause:

  • TheCure

Posted February 02, 2007 - 10:58 AM

#76

They could even be the same exact seals as the MSR's, for all I know.


The OEM oil is possibly the strangest suspension fluid I've ever seen. It looked more like snot than any kind of oil. Weird. Pours in big thick blobs, but feels very thin between your fingers.


Hey Gray...I took your advice in my own regard and experimented on my forks with MOBIL 1 synthetic ATF on my WR. I had the same wierd assed oil in my forks from the factory. With the stock oil they were harsh and unresponsive. I put the mobil 1 in, about 5 mm lower than stock (im a lightwieght guy) and they are SILKY smooth and compliant. A huge upgrade.:ride:

But, my seals are and always have been a bit weepy since day one. So, yes I agree, the fork seals make me sad. The rest of my WR, I'm in love with.

PPS, The WR forum is near useless. I love the YZF forum as you guys are actually solving problems and WILL reply to questions. well done.:ride:

  • grayracer513

Posted February 02, 2007 - 11:06 AM

#77

It's well to keep in mind that the WR fork is different than the YZF. Typically, any given year WR since about '03 has the previous year's YZ fork, so an '06 WR would have the '05 YZF AOSS fork.

  • ruralrider

Posted February 02, 2007 - 11:49 AM

#78

My 06 250f chain and sprockets were junk i ripped teeth off all the time and the chain stretched like a rubber band but other than that the rest of the bike has been bulletproof. No problems with the forks and the stock bars are still straight (dont crash often:thumbsup: ) but when i do they stay straight:ride:

  • TheCure

Posted February 02, 2007 - 02:34 PM

#79

It's well to keep in mind that the WR fork is different than the YZF. Typically, any given year WR since about '03 has the previous year's YZ fork, so an '06 WR would have the '05 YZF AOSS fork.


Sure and it's a thousand times better than that 03 YZF fork. Which I recall you did a swap on yours?:ride:

That WR fork, stock is so sweet for trailriding.

  • shigbie

Posted February 02, 2007 - 05:36 PM

#80

My 07 has 14 hours on it....the chain is trash, the rear sprocket is trashed, the fork seals are leaking a lil, the front "strong" excel rim has two dents in it, and the gytr skidplate didnt fit worth a shit. I am not new to bikes and i am a nut with maintenance. My 04250f has stock "generic" rims with no dings...and they've gotten some real abuse especially when i had to ride home with a flat. The fork seals never leaked one bit either. The stock chain and sprockets lasted atleast a lil longer than the 07...and 90% of these hours are pit riding, not even teh mx track. I know the yamaha powerplant is still supposed to be the most reliable but i could have gotten a honda or kawi for 1500 less. Im almost regretting my purchase. I called yamaha and they really didnt seem sympathetic of my situation which angers me even more considering this is my fifth yamaha. Sorry guys, just need to vent.



I have had mine for 14 months and no major problems....I just had problems with my fork seals too (cased step down triple hard) and when I removed the dust seals, I found the retaining spring on the oil seal had come off and the seal lost resistance and weeped. Pull your wipers down and check the oil seal spring. You can do it on the bike and it may save you $100.

By the way the Kawi is probably the wosrt of all when it comes to fir and finish...





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