Priming the oil pump?

[oldchvytrx]

I understand I came down too hard, my fault, please accept my appology.

MGS

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Hey, We all get rubbed the wrong way by someone's comments from time to time. I came here to learn and to help when I can.

It's all cool:thumbsup:

:ride:

[asf]

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I use the "plugless" method because not all the Honda Thumpers I work/worked on have electric start. My first was a brand spankin new 1972 XL 250. Try "kickin" this 12.5 slugged dude over with the plug in long enough to prime it!

Why cant you just use the manual decompression lever on a kickstart instead of pulling the plug?

[oldchvytrx]

Why cant you just use the manual decompression lever on a kickstart instead of pulling the plug?

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Be a great idea...... if it had one. E-button Honda's use a centrifical automatic and the manual didn't come on the scene until bigger XL/XR bikes came out in the 80's. On the 70's XL's I was racin it was all about you and your leg.

Goodness Gracious guys its not that darn hard to pull a plug?

I could pull a plug. prime, reinstall, and fire the engine in less time than it took me to type this Why all the balking at such a simple thing?

? :applause:

[asf]

Wow someone needs to get laid

No need to get all worked up, I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something totally obvious. I thought all kickstarts had a manual decompression, so my question was from ignorance not defiance.

[dezracerE]

Last time we rebuilt a 650r- pushed the bike up a big hill a few times and pulled the plug wire. Rolled down in gear. Opened the valve cover and oil was up-top. Presto- poor dumb white mans way...

[oldchvytrx]

Wow someone needs to get laid

No need to get all worked up, I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something totally obvious. I thought all kickstarts had a manual decompression, so my question was from ignorance not defiance.

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Worked Up? Hardly, I was crackin' wise fool?!

I've been doin' motors for a long time and because of this I tend to try to find the easiest most efficient way to accomplish a task. The 1970's 4 valve singles Honda made had no compression releases and with 240+psi head pressures mine made kickin' it was something you wanted to keep to a minimum.

I've got an "L" motor on the bench right now and the pumps are already prelubed and the top end will be primed before it is installed in the frame. I also have a special blend assembly lube I use on the cam and followers for some extra insurance against galling the cam.

It's the way I've always done it so I don't see it as "extra work":prof:

?

[dezracerE]

Why cant you just use the manual decompression lever on a kickstart instead of pulling the plug?

Short for pull the plug wire...

[bork]

Short for pull the plug wire...

Pulling the plug wire will not release compression.

[asf]

guys I finally got my wheels back and I was ready to start it last night, I pulled the lower banjo, kicked it over about 50 times with the decomp lever pulled, I am not getting any oil out of the bolt. I feel air pushing through. But no oil. The frame has oil near the top mark on my dipstick.

I used a syringe to back fill the oil filter housing at the top banjo hole, still nothing.

Am I doing something wrong? The pump is brand new and I was careful to get the oil seal on the pump before closing the case.

[bigtooth]

Make sure that the flex portion of the oil feed pipe between the bottom of the frame and the crankcase is not being tweaked. They have a tendency to get pinced when you tighten them to the frame. Try holding it in a steady postion while tightening the nut to the frame.

This was the reason(twice) I had a hard time getting oil to the pump and recently read in a past post someone else had this exact issue. It doesnt look pinched but it was twisted enough to cut off oil flow.

Hope it helps.

[asf]

Thanks, will do.

I just read this:

http://www.crustyquinns.com/tech/ballardselector.html

Ive been told that ofen the oil pump cannot be primed cia the kickstart, which is confirmed by the above article too

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Not being new to the whole engine teardown scene a great concern of mine was seeing oil pressure at the head before it starts. kickedy kickedy kick. and some more kicks. With the spark plug out of course...

And did you think I could see oil pressure coming out of the end of the external head line? (which I had left unconnected) Nup. So I ring up Wolfie the guru "Hey Wolfie, I'm kickin' but I'm not seeing any oil pressure?!" "Yeah JAW, you probably won't. Start it, it will be okay for 30 seconds with no oil pressure."

She fires up easy. I've got no exhaust and barebones bolts in - just in case I need to pull it out again. She's sounding good. I'm happy. I'm watching for oil to start pissing out the end of the head pipe. I'm counting. I'm waiting. I get to 30. doh! I shut her off.

"Wolfie, me again. Doesn't look as if it is priming? Any thoughts before I pull it back down again to re-check the oil pump?" "Um, pull out the oil filter and pack as much oil in there as you can. That's about it, they don't need to be primed as such."

Boomphf, she's alive again with oil packed in. I'm waiting. I'm counting. Again. Then suddenly I see pressure. Yah!

I bolt all the rest of the stuff up, and jump on her for a spin around the block. What can I say, she's back to her old self again and I'm ready for the next event...

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Im tempted to just run it since I have poured oil directly to the head, plus there is alot of assembly lube there, so maybe a 30 count is in order:confused:

[Beyond The Pale]

Im tempted to just run it since I have poured oil directly to the head, plus there is alot of assembly lube there, so maybe a 30 count is in order

I did all the things that you did. However, it still took my engine longer than 30 seconds to get oil to the head. It was more like 70 to 75. I've had the engine apart 3 times since I got my 600 and it took at least 60 seconds each time. The last time I was in my engine it showed no unusual rocker arm or cam wear. I would put the cutoff at 90 seconds. I think this is why Honda specifies the moly paste on the cam and rocker arms.

I think it helps if it is not at a real slow idle. I think that it will pump up much faster if the initial idle is more like 1500 to 1700 rpm.

If you have a big steep hill nearby you could always roll down it with the bike in gear and the decomp lever pulled in.

[MCCOYBOY]

Ok guys a year or so back honda sent us a service bulliten on priming the 650l oil pump. They advise you to remove the oil fill plug and break loose the oil bolt in the head that you use to originaly check for oil pressure. Now remove the spark plug wire and take compressed air and pressurize the frame through the oil fill hole and while pressurizing the frame turn over the engine with the starter until oil starts flowing from the oil pressure check bolt. It dosn't take alot of air pressure so don't go crazy. Hope that helps

[asf]

When I removed the lower line to check for kinks, I stuck a ziptie through to make sure it wasnt blocked. I then took a (clean) pressure bleeder, filled it with motor oil, and forced oil into the line while moving the kickstart lever to open the pressure valve on the pump. I was able to with the top screw with oil that way. I cannot get it to squirt out of the hole with the kickstarter, and I couldnt get it to turn over last night because I think my carb needs some looking into, not sure if the float is getting enough fuel... I need to get some starter fluid on the way home. Another chapter in the XR rebuild -- I just wanna ride damnit!?

I'll report back once it turns over if I see oil ou tthe line.

[martinfan30]

Ok guys a year or so back honda sent us a service bulliten on priming the 650l oil pump. They advise you to remove the oil fill plug and break loose the oil bolt in the head that you use to originaly check for oil pressure. Now remove the spark plug wire and take compressed air and pressurize the frame through the oil fill hole and while pressurizing the frame turn over the engine with the starter until oil starts flowing from the oil pressure check bolt. It dosn't take alot of air pressure so don't go crazy. Hope that helps

the above method is what i'll try tonight. put in a hotcam last night.

on top of this i also used plenty of torco i think on the cam, soaked the new filter in oil, changed the oil, and filled the head with oil through the left exh valve access cap. now i dont have comp. air at home so i will try to blow into the fill hole through and attached rubber hose until oil comes out the banjo fitting on the head. shouldnt take much pressure in my estimation.

[Denn10]

BLOW BABY BLOW!!!!! I have faith in you if no one else does, let us know if we can BLOW as hard as you can and if it will work. GL brother!!

[martinfan30]

will do denn! just have to work until 4. sucks!

[Kawabuggy]

Or, you can try this:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565981

[martinfan30]

Or, you can try this:

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565981

ya i remember your post and like the idea. i just dont have comp. air at home.

just have to use the hot air that im full of!lol

[martinfan30]

ok before i fired up the bike with the new cam, i dont have comp. air at home.

so i got 2 ft. of 1/2 heater hose and stuffed it into the oil fill hole. then started blowing into it with the banjo bolt loose at the cylinder head end of the oil pipe. after a little bit of blowing, i got oil squirting out of the fitting! wasnt too hard to do and feel better about having oil up there that much quicker.