Several questions regarding break in/oil changes/etc


22 replies to this topic
  • red7

Posted January 06, 2007 - 01:34 PM

#1

I finally got back to Mexico after picking up my new '06 YZ450F and took it out this morning to break it in. It's been killing me not to start it (besides at the dealer) but I didn't want to run it much before breaking in the engine.

Uno) I used the mototune method of break in and the bike ran great. When I had started it at the dealer I noticed a tiny bit of oil (or whatever it is) coming out of the cylinder head breather hose and then while I was checking things out letting my bike cool down before the next breakin run, I noticed some oil on the bottom left side of engine (below where the timing plug is). I thought maybe a gasket was leaking but then when I got home and shut it off I noticed about 20-25 drips coming out of the breather hose. I searched on this and realize it's normal and it sounds like the dealer mechanic over filled something. Is this engine oil that coming out? How should I drain to the right level?

2.) I put in about an hour breaking in the motor so I'm going to do my first oil change. Is it necessary to change the filter after just an hour or can I wait until my next oil change (3 more hours). I'd do it without a thought except that I want to take the Scotts stainless out of my '04 WR450 and start using it in my YZ and my WR isn't due for another oil change for a few more hours. If it won't hurt anything I'd like to change my YZ oil without the filter, ride my WR a few times, change it's oil with a paper filter and then change my YZ oil with the Scotts stainless. Is this ok or is it really important to clean the filter after the first hour to get the metal filling out?

Tres) Is there no screen inside the frame like on my WR? It sounds like I just take out the two drain bolts on the engine and then the oil filter drain bolt or entire oil filter if cleaning it. Wow, that sound easier then my WR. The carb sure doesn't though which leads me to my last question.

Four) I won't ask about the popping on decel as I'll switch to 170/48 and see how that works. So #4 is actually about the stock pegs. They seem to be back compared to my WR. I'll probably get used to them and haven't jumped much but I feel like I have to lean back and straighten out my arms in order to have my weight over them and I'm not sure I wan't to be leaning back when I start breaking it in on the track. Anyone else notice this after riding a WR?

Thanks guys and I did search out these topics but still need some clarity.

  • red7

Posted January 06, 2007 - 04:43 PM

#2

Also, can I use xylene (or how ever you spell it) to clean a scotts oil filter?

  • ZéPovinho

Posted January 06, 2007 - 04:53 PM

#3

uno) the only oil that can come out from the bike is engine oil. if you own a WR you should know the drill for cheking the oil level, do it. be sure that the oil comes from the hose and not from enywere else. if is too much drain a little from the left drain bolt( from a cold engine, or else the case treath can come out with the bolt)
dos)breaking in by the book takes around 1.1/2 hours. breaking in a YZF450 (quad) by the book takes 20 hours. since the engines are very similar(or the same to the 05 YZ) and the filter is just the same, it is relatibly safe to do just the oil change. but still, change the filter as soon as you can, and don´t push it too much wille you don´t.
tres)there is no oil going thru the frame. the oil tank is in a chanber within the crankcase in front of the crankshaft. muy listo, no?
quatro)while you don´t change the oil filter, run smoothly and get used to it. that frame and riding position is what made the 06YZ450 the best bike of 2006

  • grayracer513

Posted January 06, 2007 - 06:37 PM

#4

Break in is pretty much over with at around 3 hours if you do it right (ride the bike at 70-90%).

There is no frame screen because the oil is never in the frame, and there is also no equivalent screen anywhere else.

In draining oil observe the following:

> Remove the dipstick from the crankcase or the oil reservoir will not vent and drain properly.

> Drain in this order: 1) Oil reservoir (front left drain plug), 2) Remove the filter, 3) Drain the crankcases (right rear drain plug). When removing the oil filter cover, remove the lowermost bolt last, and let the oil run out the side past the open cover. Why this is important is that using the recommended procedure of backing the lower cover bolt out to drain the filter well does two things that you really don't want done. First, it lets oil from the filter well run back through the threads the lower bolt screws into. This oil generally contains quite a bit of metal debris, and that causes wear to the threads, stripped bolts, etc. Secondly, as listed in the manual, they would have you do this after the crankcase has already been drained and plugged, so the oil you drain from the filter well doesn't leave the engine, it just goes back to the crankcase so it can be circulated through the entire oil system yet again. Makes no sense to me.

> In the event of an overfill, there is a small drain screw on the LEFT rear of the crankcase. There is no guesswork involved in using it. You simply run the engine for 2-3 minutes, shut it off for 30-60 seconds, and pull the overfill drain and let it drain until it stops. The procedure is in section 2 of your manual, at the end of the section on the oil change procedure.

You can use xylene to clean the filter if you want, but it's a lot harsher on you than mineral spirits or shop solvent would be.

  • red7

Posted January 06, 2007 - 08:07 PM

#5

Cool, great information guys! Obviously I knew how to check the oil but thanks for clearing up the proper way to drain out the excess.

I was going by the mototune breakin method which which means riding it pretty hard. It actually is a combination of that and what I've read you (grayracer) post before. I did straight away drag runs (maybe 1/2-1 mile) at 30-60% throttle for 15 minutes, let the bike cool for 15 minutes, did more runs at 40-75% throttle for 15 minutes then let the bike cool for 15 minutes and then road it for about 30 minutes from 30-90% throttle. According to the manual and mototune, the bike is ready to race at this point but I know grayracer and others are saying to break it in longer.

So should I change the oil now (at 1 hour) or should I ride it another 2 hours before changing the oil? And if I should change it now, do I need to change the filter or am I ok waiting a few hours until I change my WR oil at the same time. Grayracer, given what I've done so far how should I spend the next few hours on the bike? Can I ride at the track to start breaking in the suspension (which inevitably involves some lugging if I come out of a turn in second) or should I avoid lugging at all costs.....and for how long?

  • grayracer513

Posted January 06, 2007 - 08:55 PM

#6

Never heard of the mototune method, but here's what I do. Dump the factory oil fill and put in my regular stuff (Amsoil MCF synthetic). Run at 50-75% for the first full hour in 2-3 sessions. Change the oil only, and run at up to 90% for the balance of the day (two hours at most, I would guess). Break in over. Change oil, clean the filter.

During break in, extremes of RPM on either side of the middle. High revs are less dangerous than very low, and you should avoid running it slow enough to make the chain slap to whatever extent you possibly can.

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted January 06, 2007 - 09:46 PM

#7

Gray,

http://www.mototuneu..._in_secrets.htm

  • grayracer513

Posted January 06, 2007 - 11:32 PM

#8

Oh, yeah, that. I didn't know that was "mototune". Seen it.:lol:

I don't see anything specific in that that I would disagree with. You definitely don't want to baby an engine to break it in, that much is certain. The point of conflict is that the rings need a lot of pressure applied to them in order to seat correctly, but almost every other part would be just as happy to run at a continuous 3000 RPM/15% load/constant 170 degrees for the first week. The trick is to find the best compromise between the two.

  • red7

Posted January 06, 2007 - 11:34 PM

#9

Never heard of the mototune method, but here's what I do. Dump the factory oil fill and put in my regular stuff (Amsoil MCF synthetic). Run at 50-75% for the first full hour in 2-3 sessions. Change the oil only, and run at up to 90% for the balance of the day (two hours at most, I would guess). Break in over. Change oil, clean the filter.

During break in, extremes of RPM on either side of the middle. High revs are less dangerous than very low, and you should avoid running it slow enough to make the chain slap to whatever extent you possibly can.


Sorry, I should have added that link. I figured you were familiar with it since that link was in several threads you had posted in. Sounds like I won't spend too much time at the track for the next few hours. I'll run a few laps for fun and then hit the trails or actually, maybe vise versa would make more sense. Thanks!

  • grayracer513

Posted January 07, 2007 - 12:00 AM

#10

Overall, it's not that critical or artsy. Don't run it balls out, don't pamper it, don't lug it, and you'll be ready to rock in 1.5-2 hours.

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  • red7

Posted January 12, 2007 - 11:19 PM

#11

You can use xylene to clean the filter if you want, but it's a lot harsher on you than mineral spirits or shop solvent would be.


What about paint thinner? I went to the local Home Depot here in Mexico and they don't carry mineral spirits. Isn't that very similar to paint thinner? I grabbed a can of it just in case so I'm debating between xlyene or the thinner. Sorry for the off topic post but it's not always a piece of cake to find stuff here south of the border.

  • warrior86

Posted January 13, 2007 - 12:27 AM

#12

yeah i did what grayracer said. The only difference is that i slightly lugged the gears to put more of a load on the piston. Figured thats what mototune said. I would start in third slightly lugged and then roll on the gas to full throttle, however i would still shortshift (stay in the low to mid rpms).

Grayracer, i hope by lugging you are referring to tooling around at 1/4 throttle in way too high of a gear rather than what i just described. If what i did was wrong then i am dissapointed, i guess i interpreted mototune wrong. o well, bike runs great.

  • rexbond007

Posted January 13, 2007 - 09:13 AM

#13

My question is what oil comes in the bike from factory/dealer?
I assume it's yamalube , i broke mine in with what ever comes in the bike.

  • j753301

Posted January 13, 2007 - 03:54 PM

#14

breaking an engine in with synthetic doesnt let the rings properly seat against the cylinder wall.i would dump it asap and do it again with reg oil.it could be to late though.your engine may run ok but could burn oil and glaze the cylinder wall not giving you your full compresion and power.sorry for the bad news man.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 13, 2007 - 08:51 PM

#15

What about paint thinner?

Paint thinner is OK

Grayracer, i hope by lugging you are referring to tooling around at 1/4 throttle in way too high of a gear rather than what i just described.

Lugging, as I use the word, means to place a heavy load on an engine at a speed so low that it doesn't pull it smoothly. The danger in this is that it's hard on the connecting rod and main bearings to handle large loads while they are turning at relatively low speeds. This is actually true whether they're broken in or not (and rolling element bearings don't really need much break in), but it does nothing to help the process.

breaking an engine in with synthetic doesnt let the rings properly seat against the cylinder wall.

That is a simple "old wive's tale", to be as polite as possible. I break in all of my engines on the same synthetic they regularly run, and none of them use any oil, and they all have good leak down numbers. All new Corvettes for the last ten years at least, and all new Porsches, as well as several other high end, high performance cars are built and shipped with synthetic oil in the crankcase, and in the case of the Corvette, failing to use it from day one voids the warranty.

People say that Synthetics are too slippery and won't let the rings seat. There are at least two things wrong with that theory. One is that any oil suitable for use with a wet clutch has to have a minimum coefficient of friction or the clutch will slip. The clutch doesn't slip.

The other is that there is virtually no oil on the compression rings anyway, if the oil rings do their job. The "triplex" type oil rings currently used will clear basically all the oil from the cylinder wall, even immediately after being installed new, if the cylinder was prepped right, leaving the compression rings to get their lubrication from gasoline. What makes them fail to seat is when too little, or far too much, combustion pressure is applied to them during the first half hour of run in.

  • Smokeslider

Posted January 13, 2007 - 10:39 PM

#16

HotCams recommends not using synthetic oil when breaking in their cams because is doesn't let the cams run out very well and find their groove quickly, would this apply to new oem cams as well? Just a thought

  • grayracer513

Posted January 14, 2007 - 12:36 AM

#17

I have no idea what either of those terms mean, exactly.

The purpose of oil is to keep any two parts that move against one another physically separated. Synthetic oils don't do this any differently, or any better, really, than premium petroleum oils that are in good condition, so there is no reason to avoid them during break in. The primary advantages of synthetics have to do with the durability of the oil in the face of the harsh conditions oil is placed under in a high performance motorcycle engine (temperature, oxidization, and shearing in transmissions).

  • Jessthro

Posted January 14, 2007 - 09:15 AM

#18

i just got an 07. all i did was ride it around about 50% for 30 mins. let it cool off, then go ahead and ride it normal for another 30 but give it frequents breaks. then thats it. do whatever you want to it. the engines are built alot more solid than people would have you believe. also the oil changes. every 4-5 good rides is ok. changing the oil after every race or every trail ride is silly. i also have an 06 yfz450 with a port job, 14:1 piston, full blown everything and i run it hard. really hard. 75% of the time in the dunes. i change the oil and filter every 4-5 all day trips and check the valves every 6+ months. its been bullet proof. these bikes arent delicate and as long as you use common sense (i.e. clean the airfilter and change the oil on a somewhat resonable basis) you shouldnt have any problems. i know ill most likely get ripped by some uber mechanic now but thats fine. while hes changing his oil after riding for 45 mins and double checking everything else on his bike, ill be blastin the dunes or the mx track.


enjoy the bike man, they are great.

  • j753301

Posted January 14, 2007 - 10:38 AM

#19

That is a simple "old wive's tale", to be as polite as possible. I break in all of my engines on the same synthetic they regularly run, and none of them use any oil, and they all have good leak down numbers. All new Corvettes for the last ten years at least, and all new Porsches, as well as several other high end, high performance cars are built and shipped with synthetic oil in the crankcase, and in the case of the Corvette, failing to use it from day one voids the warranty.

People say that Synthetics are too slippery and won't let the rings seat. There are at least two things wrong with that theory. One is that any oil suitable for use with a wet clutch has to have a minimum coefficient of friction or the clutch will slip. The clutch doesn't slip.

The other is that there is virtually no oil on the compression rings anyway, if the oil rings do their job. The "triplex" type oil rings currently used will clear basically all the oil from the cylinder wall, even immediately after being installed new, if the cylinder was prepped right, leaving the compression rings to get their lubrication from gasoline. What makes them fail to seat is when too little, or far too much, combustion pressure is applied to them during the first half hour of run in.[/QUOTE]

i can agree with this but only after break-in are the compression rings not really exposed to oil.i think that the aggressivness of the crosshatch is respossible also because the oil fills the scratches in the cyl. wall and untill the motor fully breaks-in ALL the rings are exspossed to oil,thats why a new motor will smoke untill fully broke in.i usually use a cheapo oil for the break-in run then switch after that.i also usually break my motors in pretty hard and have found that they seat better that way.everybody will have different opinions but as long as your motors run good thats all that matters right.:lol:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 14, 2007 - 10:54 AM

#20

Then Chevrolet, Porsche, et al are all wrong, and all those engines I've built using synthetics for the past 25 years didn't really break in properly? Very intriguing.

Sorry, it's still BS. There is no reason whatsoever not to use a synthetic oil during break in.





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