Any tricks to cold weather starting

[Taffy]

yep i've got one! don't listen to people who say that the air is more dense in the winter!

now tell me how much choke you needed and for how long. then tell me what PAJ/PJ/PS you run as well as needle, clip position and MJ.

most of all describe your starting symptoms.

Taffy

[lewichris]

well taffy to be honest i dont know any of the jetting answers cause when i bought the bike it was already jetted for the area so i havent changes a thing. And yes it always runs like a raped ape and it usually starts 1 or 2 kicks. I pull out the choke, do the whole starting ritual with the compression and then kick it over and over again. It dosent seem to fire. everyonce in a while i get something but then nothing. No gas of course with my hand on the handlebars. Keep in mind it is about 20-30 degrees here. Can it be started.

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: lewichris ]

[Guy]

? Mine started first kick, and ran fine all day on Mon, temp about -8 deg C give or take, So they run fine in cold weather, Now this might sound very obvious, but....is there any fuel in the tank?, has it gone onto reserve, cos I've been there, Kicking the hell out of a YZ250 for nearly half an hour before someone said..."Is there any fuel in it?"

[KBOO_426]

My 01 426 dosn't like the cold at all it was +9deg f here and i couldn't get it to start at all. it hadn't been started for appox 3 weeks. I tried to fire her up and it wouldn't fire I could kick the bike all the way though as many times as I wanted to, without the decompession lever pulled. I put it back in the garge and turned on the heater for about 10 min. And she fired on the 2nd kick???? Ran great afterwards but it don't like the cold.

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: KBOO 426 ]

[AK-thumper]

I picked my bike up last feb (01 WR426). I had a lot of trouble starting it because it was about 20 degrees out. It wouldn't start with the choke on but wouldn't run without the choke(or maybe the other way around, I can't remember). Had to have someone help me start it by operating the choke at just the right time. After changing the jetting to the JD recommended settings it starts fine when cold. Just have to adjust the fuel screw a little. The stock jetting was way lean for me in cool weather at sea level. I have found JDs pilot jet/fuel screw observations to be true, bigger pilot(48) with less screw has better bottom end, stall resistance, and easier starting vs. an equivalent smaller pilot with screw turned out more.

[lewichris]

does anyone have any tricks to cold weather starting? i am having a hell od a time and we are going to go ride the dunes in Moses Lake WA, soom and i need her to run. Any advice please let me know.

Thank you

[Taffy]

last chance chris.

WHAT DOES IT DO WHEN IT'S STARTED UP FOR THE FIRST TIME? REVS? HOW LONG ON CHOKE? DOES IT STALL? ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

zzzzzzzzzzzz

Taffy

[lewichris]

Taffy,

well if this is my last chance it dosent start at all right now. I got the light to come on a couple of times but it didnt stay running. I noticed this happened when i had the gas on and kicked it a few times and then turned the gas off. it would fire two times in a row but not enough to get going. Would it hlp if i heated the bike up with a heater? Or do you mean how does it run when it is warm.

I ride between 2000'-5000' could you tell me the jetting i need and i will check out what i have in it. Thanks alot. I ride a 1998 WR 400 if that makes any difference. WR timed with a mega max FMF exhaust. anything else you need. thanks for your time.

[wr400f]

When my wr400 is cold (35-45 degrees out side) about 3 full pumps on the throttle with full choke fires it first kick. Sometimes it will stall and take one more pump, and it fires right up and idles with full choke. Leave it on full choke until it starts to falter,turn the choke off and it should idle. Sometimes I have to pull the choke out about half way for another minute, then it's fine for "first kick" starting all day. If it's 50 to 60 degrees outside usually 2 pumps fires it first kick. I have the stock jetting (168 main) in it and it runs a tiny bit lean in the cold weather until it warms up good ( approx. 10 minutes) then it's fine. Figure out your bike's "personal" habits and it makes your riding a whole lot more enjoyabe.

[wr400f]

I forgot one thing.. I know my bike well enough that if it don't fire by the 4th kick it's the spark plug, so I don't even kick it a 5th time. Keep lots of spark plugs handy, when they go ...they go. Hope it helps.

[Rich_in_Orlando]

Most, if not all, of any cold starting problems I have had are due to my filter being over-oiled. The cold thickens up the filter oil and causes the bike to run/start poorly. Solution: I oil my filter even lighter than normal in cold weather. (Cold weather for Florida is below 50° F.)

Taffy, I just don't see how you can say that colder air isn't denser than warmer air, all other things being equal. You mentioned in another post that the weather map always shows low pressure when it's cold and high pressure when it's warm. That's not my experience. Temperature and pressure in the atmosphere are independent of each other. Air behaves pretty much like an ideal gas. So, air density increases as temperature decreases or as pressure increases. Could you please enlighten me to your thoughts? Am I missing something?

[Taffy]

first of all i've just watched a weather chart for the USA on CNN. now there's no if's or but's about this, it showed poor weather over florida and the letter was L and over the rest of the states it said H. so that's a fact.

secondly, in the winter there is more moisture in the air which reduces the amount of all the gases that make up air including oxygen of course.

thirdly in the winter fuel has a job to atomise so you are more likely to have starting troubles and flooding.

fourthly if you are rich in the summer you'll get away with it perhaps but you certainly won't in the winter.

i can't see why anyone is running the rich jetting they're so proud of. i've drawn together a little idea on jetting based upon your starting procedure, however one person in particular and a couple of others whom i've tried to help have proved totally incapable of diseminating their starting procedure so i can't help.

it stands to reason that we should ALL be using choke toi start our bikes and that we should take a period of time before we press it in. i've never been able to start my bike without choke. i've had periods where i needed more or less and even had the dreaded plug fouling as well. but i've come through that period and i'm much the wiser for it.

most of the riders and i have to say they are the americans, just won't go out there and set them up.

we have very few aussies on this site but many of them have got stuck in and so has the "not so swiss" missile. sorry but that's that.

we had the case of a load of lads turn up in the desert for a huge jetting fest and what did we hear of it? nothing, diddly-squeek, FA, zilch, we've had top dragster runners, pro mechanics the lot and they come up with NOTHING.

when their bikes flood. tough, no pity (excepting lack of knowledge to have a go)i've said for long enough that i'm tired. look at my jetting signiture THAT'S where you should be headed with your jetting.

there are loads of lads saying go up from 45 to 48PJ, fine, i've tried to tell you otherwise and none of you listen so carry on.

there are lots of things about nature i find strange. where did jack 'n jill go for their pale of water? bottom of the hill wasn't it? well it has to be doesn't it? after all you'd never find a well on high ground now would you! would you?

Taffy

[lewichris]

well i had time this weekend so i pulled the plug put in a new one and got new gas in it. Startd the third kick. so thanks for the help but now i am on to a new problem. I did a bonehead thing. I turned the oil drain bolt on the bottom of the engin and proceded to strip out the hole. Oh **** huh. so if anyone knows how to fix this please help. I was just going to take it to the yamaha shop and say "fix it".

[*mike68*]

I do what everyone says not to do and it works for me.

Pull in decomp lever, twist throttle wide open, kick 10 to 12 times in a row while holding decomp lever and throttle open,.

Pull choke on and follow normal routine. I ride all winter, anything below freezing, no jetting, nop fn around and no problems here in NH

[YAMAKAZE]

Taffy.....

Sorry Ol chap....You have much knowledge when it comes to jetting the beast,but are somewhat misguided when it comes to air standards where pressures vs temp's are concerned. Having been a Professional Military Helicopter Pilot for over 20 years, I must respectfully disagree with your assertions. Molecules of Air ,water or solids expand and contract depending on temp not barametric pressure. When it is hot the molecules are bigger thus in the analogy of an aircraft, it takes more force and more pitch to make an aircraft fly....Bigger molecules = thinner air. On the other hand when the air is cold the molecules are smaller (compressed)there are more in the same space (Dense). When the air is cold (Dense) an aircraft requires much less energy to generate the same lift required to become airborne as when it was warmer. The same principal applies to a carb jet. When the air is hot and the molecules are larger (which most applications are set for) The correct amount of air passes through the hole metered in the jet. When that same air is cold or (Compressed) more air molecules pass through the same metered hole changing the dynamic airflow....(Thus the reason some bikes pop under 40 degrees around here but not over 50 degrees) The same goes for fuel....Hotter(Fuel Expands) less fuel....colder (Fuel Compresses)more fuel...going through the same jet. (A simple test is to fill a glass container with gasoline in a warm room ...about 60-70 degrees....Mark the fill line with a crayon or grease pencil...next put the container in the ice box over night and see what has happened. The gasoline has now compressed and is well below the line. (You always get cheated at the pump in the summer time, unless you fill in the cool of the morning) This is the reason why I foul plugs ONLY in the winter time (since removing the ACV), If I changed my SJ to a 50 or so (60 is Stock) I could more than likely stop fouling plugs for the winter months. In summer I pull out the choke....In winter I crack the throttle once then Kick through...Sometimes Kick through twice. High and Low pressures on a map do not have anywhere near as much effect as the temp associated with them. A low pressure cell at 50 degrees and a High pressure cell at 50 degrees mean absolutely nothing to my WR except I'm more likely to get wet when that Low pressure cell reaches my riding area.

You are still my jetting hero.....

Bonzai ?

[cycra1]

well the cold air deffinatly changes the way you shold jet your bike. If you want a quick fix to starting it in the cold here you go.........i've been ridding in 20F give or take for the past few weeks. My bike starts up 1st kick every time. If you got your bike running good, and got good plug color just richen it up a little. I did this by moving my needle up one spot. It mihgt sound weird but a little more gas helps out and my bike also seemd to run better overall!! good luck and have fun, cant wait for spring!!!

[Taffy]

yamakrasher

i don't doubt that in cooler weather things are denser, despite all i've said i've tried to stick to the point i was making and not sound like a packet of fags (cigs to you boys).

if your point on denser air is right your equations to jetting still don't add up.

in other words the moment you go to apply that knowledge to your bike something goes missing.

first of all what is having the biggest affect? is it the moisture, or the pressure? you can't doubt what i see on TV all the time now can you! after all it's there every night. when the weather is poor it gets an L, thats an LLLLLLLL. how scientists tidy this up i don't know.

but you do hang yourself a little when you say that in the summer you need full choke and in the winter a twist of the wrist (i prefer a flick of the wrist but we shouldn't go into that now!) this indicates that in the winter you DON'T NEED AS MUCH FUEL so have i got that right?

after all you have supplied the chair and the rope!

Taffy

[Ynahg]

Taffy

Cold air has a low relative humidity, which means it 's not able to absorb much moisture. have you ever heard about a cold humid climate ??? But you must have heard about hot humid climats (tropical, Florida ???).

Hot air is less compact than cold air, which means it can contain less oxigen in a same volume.

Why do engines have more power at sea level than on higher levels ? Because of the air pressure.

Do you run the same MJ at 0°C than at 25°C with a 2-stroke ?? This means I can forget all I learned till now.

At a same altitute colder air contains more oxigen than hot air. If the same volume of air contains more oxigen, you need more fuel to keep the ratio right. (14.7)

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Ynahg ]

[Taffy]

so...er......i'm .....right!

i'm right!

i'm right!!!

yesssssss i'm right. ha ha i'm right i'm right i'm right.

e i aleyo i'm right!! i'm right!!! i'm right!!!!

of course i couldn't have done this without my parents who i'd like to thank, i'd also like to thank....

mmmmmmmmmmwwwwwwwaaaahhhhhh i love you all ?

ps; should this site invoke a non-gloat clause i will comply but until then yyyyyeeeeeessssss!!!

even JD got that one wrong!!! yaaahhhhhhoooooo

you're all my children and i love you all.

Taffy

[Guy]

I believed in ya! m8...I did Honest ? ROFL

Nice work missile!, I havn't seen maths like that since I was at school, ooh scary!

You do realise though, that our Taffster is gonna be........telling us "He told us so" for a while >>LOL!