What should I get, Scotts or Rekluse?


40 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted December 16, 2006 - 08:55 PM

#21

Heres a little FACT that most people aren't aware of. Ricky Carmichael was riding with an Autoclutch in the Outdoor circuit when he was with Honda. Auto clutchs Rock!

Which clutch did RC use?

  • youngwerth

Posted December 16, 2006 - 09:19 PM

#22

I recently saw a video of a guy looping his bike on a jump, went off it with the front end too high and ended up on his butt.
For those of you with "good clutch skills" like I was talking about, what technique do you use to lower the front end in the air, and can it be done with a Rekluse?

I don't really want to get into a big argument about whether the Rekluse is good or bad, it’s like others have said, you either love it or hate it. For me, it’s all about control. The clutch is a very powerful tool that can make you a better rider if you learn how to use it. Anyone that’s learned to ride on smaller bikes, like two stroke 80’s, knows how important learning clutch control is. Take the clutch away from a mini racer and his lap times would probably double. Take the clutch away from me and there’s many things I do on a bike that I wouldn’t be able to do, or would be harder to do as well. And yes, I’ve ridden bikes with a Rekluse, even one that was the same year and model as the bike I was currently riding so I could make a fair comparision.

Like I said originally, I think the Rekluse could be a good thing for newer riders, or guys that want one less thing to worry about when riding, or ones that don’t have good clutch skills. I stand by what I’ve said, if you’ve ridden for years and using a clutch (for more than just starting and stopping) is something you don’t even have to think about, you’re probably not going to want a Rekluse. Here’s another question, are there any riders in the Outdoor or Supercross series that use a Rekluse? How about GNCC or even local hare scrambles, enduros or MX? I don’t know, but if there is I’m betting it’s not in the faster classes.

I agree that a Rekluse will make a bike easier to ride, especially if you have trouble with stalling (part of the “not having to think about it” clutch control skills). You won’t convince me that better, more experienced riders just haven’t “seen the light” though. I like my clutch and I wouldn’t give away a good tool. The thing to remember is not everyone rides the same way, with the same experience or skills, in the same conditions or on the same kind of bikes. I’m glad they make the Rekluse, and I’m happy it works for you guys. It’s not for everyone though, no more than a particular bike is perfect for everyone.



Yes, you can use the clutch lever with a Rekluse clutch. At high RPMs with the z-Start you do get some engagment drag (which may prevent you from power shifting at high RPMs but will allow you to drop your front end if need be).

The new z-Start Pro will allow 100% override at any RPM (no drag at all) and the clutch lever feels and works just like stock above about 3000 RPMs.

I don't know about RC using an auto clutch when he was with Honda. Nathan Woods did use the z-Start Pro at Enduro Cross this year and finished second, highest finishing 4-stroke ever in that event. The second highest finishing 4-stroke was Anders Eriksson also running a z-Start clutch.

Read the Dirt Bike magazine article this month about the z-Start Pro. I think with the z-Start Pro, this year we will break much deeper into the pro ranks of off-road, supercross and motorcross racing.

  • motobark

Posted December 16, 2006 - 10:07 PM

#23

Yes, you can use the clutch lever with a Rekluse clutch. At high RPMs with the z-Start you do get some engagment drag (which may prevent you from power shifting at high RPMs but will allow you to drop your front end if need be).

The new z-Start Pro will allow 100% override at any RPM (no drag at all) and the clutch lever feels and works just like stock above about 3000 RPMs.

I don't know about RC using an auto clutch when he was with Honda. Nathan Woods did use the z-Start Pro at Enduro Cross this year and finished second, highest finishing 4-stroke ever in that event. The second highest finishing 4-stroke was Anders Eriksson also running a z-Start clutch.

Read the Dirt Bike magazine article this month about the z-Start Pro. I think with the z-Start Pro, this year we will break much deeper into the pro ranks of off-road, supercross and motorcross racing.


The bikes I rode did have a lever with the Rekluse, for me it wasn't even close to the same level of control you get with a straight clutch setup. It's good to see you're getting the new one better in that respect, although I still don't think I'd like loosing the 3k rpm and below control. These big 4 strokes do have enough low end to chug down lower than that, and there are situations where you can get a good drive through a technical section if the clutch is fully engaged at those rpms. That's one of the things I didn't like about the Rekluse, I felt like I lost that part of the rpm range because all it would do is slip when down that low. The other part I don't like about any of these non-conventional setups is the increased plate wear and added heat.

webercobra, are you sure it wasn't a slipper clutch? A few of the MX guys are using those and I think most SuperMoto guys are too. Road race bikes have been using them for a while too I believe. I've actually considered getting a slipper clutch because that's an idea I think I'd really like. I tend to have my clutch dissengaged most of the time when I'm coming into a turn hot and fast. That way you can get on the brakes as hard as you want without a chance of locking up or stalling, and also lets you maintain more speed into the turn. I also have the clutch in when going down technical hills or rocky sections, it lets the suspension track much smoother and also lets you gain more speed without cracking the throttle. As much time as I have the clutch in on decel, I think I'd like the way a slipper clutch works. I've never had the chance to ride a bike with one though so I don't know. My understanding is they don't have an effect on accel, just decel, like a one way clutch, that's the big difference between the Rekluse and slippers. Plus slipper clutches aren't cheap, about $900, ouch!

  • grayracer513

Posted December 16, 2006 - 10:11 PM

#24

webercobra, are you sure it wasn't a slipper clutch?

That was my point. :thumbsup:

  • motobark

Posted December 16, 2006 - 10:35 PM

#25

I just found this while surfing for slipper clutch info, I think I'll stick with my old fashioned conventional clutch setup...

In the second heat race of the evening, Team Mach 1 Yamaha’s Heath Voss was left sitting at the gate as the rest of the pack roared off towards turn one. Why? The slipper clutch mechanism in his factory Yamaha YZ450F malfunctioned and wouldn't allow him to restart his bike or disengage the clutch. After replacing it with a standard unit, Voss qualified via a semi and finished 13th in the main.



  • Kyle Prior

Posted December 16, 2006 - 11:24 PM

#26

I persaonally find doing manual clutch work fun, and couldn't see a need for a Rekluse. Besides that, the only peron I know personally that has a Rekluse has had many problems with it.

  • Fastest1

Posted December 17, 2006 - 07:20 PM

#27

In Hare Scrables and Cross Country the Rekluse/EFM?Revloc are all used alot. The Rekluse has really taken market share from the rest and rightfully so. It is a new product and will take some time to be widely accepted. And we are not talking about riding bikes with little power (a.k.a. 80's, 125's or even 250's for that matter). Regarding the slipper clutch, again this is personal taste. People who like 2 strokes dont usually like or use engine braking. I personally like to pitch it sideways with engine braking! It scared the crap out of guys around me while roadracing! I never use the rear brake because of engne braking. Some like it some dont, both ways work!

  • motobark

Posted December 17, 2006 - 08:43 PM

#28

I never use the rear brake because of engne braking.


No clutch AND no back brake? Why don't you get rid of that useless stuff on the right side of the handlbars too?

  • Fastest1

Posted December 18, 2006 - 05:00 AM

#29

No clutch AND no back brake? Why don't you get rid of that useless stuff on the right side of the handlbars too?

Actually if I would just remove that pesky front brake nobody would be faster! Maybe just wire the throttle wide open then hold on tight and commit to everything! Wimps need brakes and clutches, I need traction!:thumbsup:

  • TD-3

Posted December 18, 2006 - 05:41 AM

#30

Why is it every autoclutch thread turns into a debate over ones riding skill?

That makes me say

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • fishwater

Posted December 18, 2006 - 06:11 AM

#31

Why is it every autoclutch thread turns into a debate over ones riding skill?

That makes me say


I agree but I don't care. I was out yesterday & rode the nastiest trails I have ever seen on a dirtbike or mountain bike. I had a horrible time, I was not prepared for it & I paid the price with two get offs. Now I need a new front fender & shroud. My ego was bruised & my hip is sore. My skills are lacking, I need more ride time to get better but if the Rekluse would have helped me get the bike through all that I would be in better shape today then I am right now.

  • StreetbikePimp

Posted December 18, 2006 - 10:19 AM

#32

I recently saw a video of a guy looping his bike on a jump, went off it with the front end too high and ended up on his butt.
For those of you with "good clutch skills" like I was talking about, what technique do you use to lower the front end in the air, and can it be done with a Rekluse?....


If you're in the air, and need to drop the front, use the rear brake to stop the rear wheel from spinning. This drops the front end. No clutch or Rekluse involved.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:10 AM

#33

If you're in the air, and need to drop the front, use the rear brake to stop the rear wheel from spinning. This drops the front end. No clutch or Rekluse involved.

When using the rear brake to pitch the bike forward in midair, the clutch needs to be disengaged or the engine will also be stopped, and dead engine landings are, um, ugly. Therefore, the question was and is, will a Rekluse disengage quickly enough to allow this without killing the engine, or not?

  • YZ426F Rider

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:25 AM

#34

When using the rear brake to pitch the bike forward in midair, the clutch needs to be disengaged or the engine will also be stopped, and dead engine landings are, um, ugly. Therefore, the question was and is, will a Rekluse disengage quickly enough to allow this without killing the engine, or not?


The short answer is 'yes'. The Rekluse is amazingly responsive...I set my stall speed so that the clutch engages right above idle and I have yet been able to stall the engine by locking up the rear wheel. The only potentially odd issue of jumping with a Rekluse is that after a brake tap the engine and transmission are now disengaged and you will land in a freewheeling state unless the throttle is 'blipped' right before landing.

Also, if for some reason the engine did happen to stall then it would be like landing in neutral rather than in gear.

  • YZ426F Rider

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:27 AM

#35

I agree but I don't care. I was out yesterday & rode the nastiest trails I have ever seen on a dirtbike or mountain bike. I had a horrible time, I was not prepared for it & I paid the price with two get offs. Now I need a new front fender & shroud. My ego was bruised & my hip is sore. My skills are lacking, I need more ride time to get better but if the Rekluse would have helped me get the bike through all that I would be in better shape today then I am right now.

You would have had an enjoyable time.

  • motobark

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:29 AM

#36

If you're in the air, and need to drop the front, use the rear brake to stop the rear wheel from spinning. This drops the front end. No clutch or Rekluse involved.


You might want to think that one through a little bit more. At least before you or someone else reading that tries it and gets hurt.


Why is it every autoclutch thread turns into a debate over ones riding skill?


I apologize for my part in that, I probably shouldn't have made the comment about getting rid of the other stuff on the right side of the bars.

My point from the beginning is precisely why it turns into a question of skills. For the most part, whether anyone agrees or not, most experienced faster guys don’t like it and less experienced guys do. Simple as that. (Re-read the "for the most part" before flaming back, ok, I don't mean everyone.) Some guys stall their bikes twenty times a day, others stall their bikes maybe once every twenty rides. If you’re stalling twenty times a day, you’re going to love a Rekluse. Period, the end.

Again, I apologize for getting this thread a little off track. I contribute here a lot of the time when I see some misinformation that I know I can straighten out with my knowledge and experience. I probably should have left the "never using the rear brake" comment alone, but I couldn't leave the above comment out there for someone to see and possibly try.

Here's the answer, if you do a brake tap without pulling in the clutch, you'll stall the motor and land with the rear wheel not turning. Not good.

  • ncmountainman

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:32 AM

#37

When using the rear brake to pitch the bike forward in midair, the clutch needs to be disengaged or the engine will also be stopped, and dead engine landings are, um, ugly. Therefore, the question was and is, will a Rekluse disengage quickly enough to allow this without killing the engine, or not?


if ya jam the rear brake with the rekluse; its stall proof oh gray one. perfect clutch feathering everytime,sure takes alot of pressure off. and i wouldn't go back to a foot brake if someone paid me to:thumbsup:

  • YZ426F Rider

Posted December 18, 2006 - 11:53 AM

#38

Here's the answer, if you do a brake tap without pulling in the clutch, you'll stall the motor and land with the rear wheel not turning. Not good.

Not if you have a Rekluse!

To address the issue of excessive clutch wear and overheating associated with the Rekluse: Not true...period.

To expand: Not unless the rider has the clutch adjusted improperly and/or is just plain lazy and doesn't shift.

With the install gap set correctly and the stall speed set correctly (both of which are VERY simple to do) the Rekluse locks up your clutch every bit as well as a manual clutch.

The guys that are burning up their clutch are the the guys that think that the Rekluse is an automatic transmission. You still need to shift just like you would with a stock set up!! You CAN get away with leaving your bike in 3rd gear all day on tight single track...but you will burn it up and your bike will be overheating. Duh. :thumbsup: Imagine how much you would have to use your clutch if you stayed in 3rd all day...same thing except that the Rekluse is doing it for you.

Adjust it properly and use the right gear for the situation and the Rekluse will feather itself better than any rider can do manually. Period. And because of this when properly adjusted and shifted I would bet my bottom dollar that there is actually LESS clutch wear.

  • ncmountainman

Posted December 18, 2006 - 12:09 PM

#39

there is less wear,i've only lost .oo3" off my clutch gap since new in the spring(i never even had to reset the install gap!) that amounts to about 40hrs and 4 races (6 more hrs) the reason being like yz 426 said if set up properly and used within its margins,the clutch never overslips and actually has much greater clamping force over 3k rpm than a conventional clutch. i'll betcha i can pee farther with my rekluse!

  • 642MX

Posted December 18, 2006 - 01:07 PM

#40

Therefore, the question was and is, will a Rekluse disengage quickly enough to allow this without killing the engine, or not?


Yes, you can lock the rear wheel in the air. I use the rear brake in the air all the time (I know its a bad habit), and its not flamed out once. :thumbsup:





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